Transitioning Soon

[Someone here]

30 minutes ago, axiom said:

the self is illusory.

There is noone here already. 

From the Buddhist perspective, which is where this is coming from, I think it's important that one understands what is meant by "no-self". There is clearly a person typing this message out, and you are clearly reading it. And these individuals (me and you) and distinct and different entities, with different feelings, experiences, and emotions. These of course manifest in different personalities. But, there is a tendency to assume that this conception an individual has about their self, "who they are" "what they stand for", etc. is a permenant, fixed, unchanging entitity. We often hear expressions in our common speech, "No matter what happens I will always be this kind of person" and so on. So, there is the idea that is developed which essentially implies that this self is an entity, and it is an entity which exists beyond the confines of the physical body, almost. 

It is this self that the aforementioned philospohers are claiming as non-existent. Try this thought experiment: imagine yourself at the earliest age possible, 5, 6, 7.. however, young you can recall some sense of self with any capacity. Imagine what your favorite experiences were, your hopes, what you wanted to be as an adult, your favorite show, food, color, etc. Now, I'm sure nearly all of those things are no longer true, correct? What happened to that self? Where did it go? It changed. As you changed physically, and as you experienced more, you altered. But how? And why? And what part of that child is still with the adult? If we could locate that one thread on similarity between your earliest self and today could we say that that  is the permemenat self? Surely not. Too many things in your life would be deemed too important by the current incarnation of the self to state that the only existent true self was whatever thread connected to infancy. But the corollary is important to pay attention to as well: what aspects of your present incarnation of self that are curcial to your understanding of your unique individuality will become unimportant and trivial in twenty years from now? Will you have to reduce the self to just the thread that exists from to day to twenty years from now and infancy? No. Because there is no self.  This idea of some permement you that exists through space and time is just an illusion. 

So I get that part ..but then you go on and say :

31 minutes ago, axiom said:

 A self suffers the illusion that it can die

Didn't we just agreed that the self Is an illusion?  Then how could an illusion suffer or fear death ? How could something which doesn't even exist suffer any kind of emotion ?

32 minutes ago, axiom said:

This could be described as "death", but it's just a metaphor.

One question : a metaphor for what?

Second question: do you distinguish between ego death and physical death ,

Third question: do you  think physical death is an illusion ? If so..why ? If not..the what happens after it ?

[Vibes]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

If you ever had ego death physical death is really the same thing it's just that with ego death the dream hasn't dissolved yet.  But it gives you a taste of what death is like because you become God.  True ego death is awakening as God.   You are in God Consciousness.  It's just that the dream hasn't broke apart because you still have too many attachments.   So you are still in finite form.   With physical death you will just be pure formless, Infinite Consciousness.   You don't even need a form when you awake...it's almost as if you are formless.  So it's really the same thing plus form.  

@Inliytened1 Last awakening showed me that my body and the physical world are inside my Mind. The body was just one more piece of content, even if it had been blown into pieces it wouldn't matter, just a change in content. It was obvious how I was creating the illusion of being a human, other people around me, an outside world, etc. But like you said the physical reality didn't dissolve, even though I felt like I wanted to go deeper and deeper, it stopped there.

Was that a shallow God-realization? 

Edited September 2, 2022 by Vibes

[Guest Nilsi]

3 hours ago, axiom said:

Death is an illusion because there is noone there to die. 

In a way, death is already the case.

 

As far as Im concerned, this is bogus. Death is literally death. This dream isnt there anymore. Its just pure formlessness, but you are still there, so its more the dream that dies, not you. Although, my experiences seem to be a bit different, because when this happened to me, I was purely formless and completely alone, but still kinda weirded out by it lol. It seems like, the moment you stop being cool with it, the dream gets reconstructed (it was kind of a tug of war in my case, and I literally watched as self and other were emerging and then dropping back into this pure oneness until the "trip" slowly wore off) - thats my experience with, what Im assuming were talking about here, at least.

Maybe this is some specific quirk of mine and in your case the dream continues when you die (why not, I guess?), but yeah, thats what happened.

Edited September 2, 2022 by Nilsi

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

From the Buddhist perspective, which is where this is coming from, I think it's important that one understands what is meant by "no-self". There is clearly a person typing this message out, and you are clearly reading it. And these individuals (me and you) and distinct and different entities, with different feelings, experiences, and emotions. These of course manifest in different personalities. But, there is a tendency to assume that this conception an individual has about their self, "who they are" "what they stand for", etc. is a permenant, fixed, unchanging entitity. We often hear expressions in our common speech, "No matter what happens I will always be this kind of person" and so on. So, there is the idea that is developed which essentially implies that this self is an entity, and it is an entity which exists beyond the confines of the physical body, almost. 

It is this self that the aforementioned philospohers are claiming as non-existent. Try this thought experiment: imagine yourself at the earliest age possible, 5, 6, 7.. however, young you can recall some sense of self with any capacity. Imagine what your favorite experiences were, your hopes, what you wanted to be as an adult, your favorite show, food, color, etc. Now, I'm sure nearly all of those things are no longer true, correct? What happened to that self? Where did it go? It changed. As you changed physically, and as you experienced more, you altered. But how? And why? And what part of that child is still with the adult? If we could locate that one thread on similarity between your earliest self and today could we say that that  is the permemenat self? Surely not. Too many things in your life would be deemed too important by the current incarnation of the self to state that the only existent true self was whatever thread connected to infancy. But the corollary is important to pay attention to as well: what aspects of your present incarnation of self that are curcial to your understanding of your unique individuality will become unimportant and trivial in twenty years from now? Will you have to reduce the self to just the thread that exists from to day to twenty years from now and infancy? No. Because there is no self.  This idea of some permement you that exists through space and time is just an illusion. 

So I get that part...

This is all a story. There is no time, there is no past. "Time" needs a self to measure it.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Didn't we just agreed that the self Is an illusion?  Then how could an illusion suffer or fear death ? How could something which doesn't even exist suffer any kind of emotion ?

The self seems to be a kind of seeking energy which erroneously takes ownership of appearances (including thoughts). It doesn't do anything else. 

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

2 hours ago, axiom said:

There is noone here already. This could be described as "death", but it's just a metaphor.

One question : a metaphor for what?

A metaphor for there being noone home (so to speak)

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Second question: do you distinguish between ego death and physical death

I'm not really sure what is meant by ego death. The death of an identity, of an individual, is always illusory because there are no individuals. I would distinguish only on the grounds that they seem to appear different, and that they seem to involve a different cocktail of emotions.

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

Third question: do you  think physical death is an illusion ? If so..why ? If not..the what happens after it ?

Physical death (as in death of the body) seems to happen. But all appearances are just appearances. Nothing is actually happening (as per your story above about Buddhism, infancy, philosophers, physical changes etc). None of that actually happened.

If you are referring to death of the individual, then this never happens. The individual is already not there. There is nowhere to go. It's just this. Already.

Edited September 2, 2022 by axiom

[Someone here]

9 minutes ago, axiom said:

I'm not really sure what is meant by ego death. The death of an identity, of an individual, is always illusory because there are no individuals. I would distinguish only on the grounds that they seem to appear different, and that they seem to involve a different cocktail of emotions

When you say there is no individual..what are you exactly talking about? Here I am .I exist. It's the most obvious thing in the world . I do understand tho that there is no separation (no separate self) and that reality is unified undivided field of consciousness. But within this non-dual reality ..there appears to be separate self.sepertate bodies and so forth .

So I want you to be clear what do you mean exactly when you say there is no one home . Do you deny our physical existence as living organisms ?or are you talking about the ego being illusory? 

[axiom]

@Someone here

Bodies seem to exist. Physical organisms seem to exist. This is not about denying the existence of bodies.

This is about the individual having no existence at all. 

There is no person "in there" (so to speak) who can do anything. There is no awareness. There is no free will.

Often, when this message is heard, this phrase "awareness is an illusion" can feel totally incoherent or even crazy.

So to be clearer, it turns out (after awakening) that that which was formerly considered to be awareness (i.e. before awakening) is not awareness, and never was.

"So what is it?" you might ask.

This. All that is. The appearance. Infinity.

26 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I do understand tho that there is no separation (no separate self) and that reality is unified undivided field of consciousness.

I would not use the word "consciousness". I like the word "appearance". Consciousness is a very misleading term as it gives rise to the idea of selves, "everyone" being "one consciousness" and so forth.

Edited September 2, 2022 by axiom

[Razard86]

You cannot have appearance without awareness. I really do not think you understand at all. You keep tying awareness to some story. If you lost the ability to construct a story, were mute, had no voice in your head and you were just a screen with things happening....then you are aware. If you were not aware...YOU COULD NOT TELL US ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW. 

You are literally REPORTING BACK which means... YOU WERE AWARE.

This is beyond the pale at this point you are engaged in word games. If there is no awareness then there is no memory, which means...you would have no RECORD of the experience to report it. 

[axiom]

 

31 minutes ago, Razard86 said:

I really do not think you understand at all.

It cannot be understood.

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, Razard86 said:

You cannot have appearance without awareness. I really do not think you understand at all. You keep tying awareness to some story. If you lost the ability to construct a story, were mute, had no voice in your head and you were just a screen with things happening....then you are aware. If you were not aware...YOU COULD NOT TELL US ABOUT IT RIGHT NOW. 

You are literally REPORTING BACK which means... YOU WERE AWARE.

This is beyond the pale at this point you are engaged in word games. If there is no awareness then there is no memory, which means...you would have no RECORD of the experience to report it. 

It's not a something to be understood bro!

But it's recognized when the one trying to understand it goes for a long walk off a short plank ☺ 

[axiom]

The duality of appearance and awareness is the very separation which fuels the seeking energy.

No such duality exists. Here's a pointer: Does there appear to be awareness?

[Breakingthewall]

@axiom

you talk about what it is not, but not about what it is. if they talk to you about what it is, you will say that they are stories. this is because what is has not opened for you yet. you understand that it is infinity, but you have not realized what it is. your approach has a name: neoadvaita

Edited September 3, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[axiom]

@Breakingthewall

That what is has infinite depth is not being denied. But what is can never be known.

You think you are a self that can know. That is duality, and duality is the great illusion.

[Breakingthewall]

1 minute ago, axiom said:

@Breakingthewall

That what is has infinite depth is not being denied. But what is can never be known.

You think you are a self that can know. That is duality, and duality is the great illusion.

I think it can be known in the sense of realizing that it is infinite, and realizing its quality. obviously infinity cannot be known in detail, but it is not necessary, since precisely because of its infinity it merges into a unity, and that unity is neither more nor less than you. can not it be a different way. and you can know yourself very well. 

you can't encompass yourself but you can know yourself

[axiom]

1 hour ago, Breakingthewall said:

I think it can be known in the sense of realizing that it is infinite, and realizing its quality. obviously infinity cannot be known in detail, but it is not necessary, since precisely because of its infinity it merges into a unity, and that unity is neither more nor less than you. can not it be a different way. and you can know yourself very well. 

you can't encompass yourself but you can know yourself

Yes. Infinite. But when there is the illusion of someone being there, it will always seem finite.

It could be said that to the degree the self seems to be there, infinity will seem to present itself only in degrees of finitude.

Infinity appears to be much bigger (truly infinite), and free to simply be what it is when noone is there attempting to circumscribe it.

Edited September 3, 2022 by axiom

[Jannes]

@Jake Chambers At least you don’t have to experience the growing retardation of society. ?
I hope Leo could get you some hope. Seriously man, many people learned to accept death with psychedelics. 
Much love ♥️

 

Edited September 3, 2022 by Jannes

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, axiom said:

Yes. Infinite. But when there is the illusion of someone being there, it will always seem finite.

It could be said that to the degree the self seems to be there, infinity will seem to present itself only in degrees of finitude.

Infinity appears to be much bigger (truly infinite), and free to simply be what it is when noone is there attempting to circumscribe it.

4 hours ago, axiom said:

t

4 hours ago, axiom said:

Yes. Infinite. When there is the illusion of someone being there, it will always seem finite.

 

it goes against all intuition and all logic, but behind the absolute emptiness and the non-self there is one last door. this is not something that you realize because you have always had it in front of you, or a cosmic joke. it is the revelation of what infinity is. when that door opens, what you find is ....you. but the you that you are is not something that the mind can conceive. Before you opened this door, you were in the dark. only some light filtered through, always mixed with shadows. when this door is thrown wide open, light bursts. and what it is is: you. the one you always were : the total infinity

Edited September 3, 2022 by Breakingthewall

[Jake Chambers]

@Leo Gura I PM’d you

[Scholar]

On 27.8.2022 at 0:03 AM, Jake Chambers said:

I am passing on very soon from this world. I am not that scared of death.  But I am quite uneasy with what comes after it.

What you fear is death, because death is ultimate uncertainty. Death is the most radical change into the, appearing, unknown. You are terrified because you do not know what comes after, and that is okay. Look around you, trillions, in fact, infnite of your brothers and sisters facing death every day, and another infinite of them having faced death in the past. Many of them terrified, even more so than you are.

We, as worldly creatures, naturally resist death in the form it is unraveling for us. I could tell you a story that might sooth your mind, but it is likely that you will still experience the uncertainty, the terror, the fear and the dread eventually. This is because you are human. I know that you do not want to experience the fear, the suffering, the loss, the resistance. But I want to remind you that, you are allowed to fear. You are allowed to resist, to want it not to happen. You are allowed to suffer, and to resist your suffering.

In that you can find your ultimate freedom. When the suffering becomes unbearable, when your fear overwhelms you, that is okay, and it is okay for you to not be okay with it.

 

In fact, this is your ultimate freedom, your ultimate Love. You are Christ, bearing the unbearable, as we speak. You are just not realizing it. And that is part of your Love, your Ultimate Sacrifice, your Ultimate Selflessness. You have created yourself, you have made yourself ignorant, so that you could allow Creation to be itself. Creation, including your suffering, your fear.

 

And because you are the Ultimate, your suffering cannot ever harm you. No matter how much your resist, no matter how much you suffer, how much you want it to stop, it will never touch you. It will only appear and disappear in your Presence.

 

So go on my brother. Fear what you must fear, desire what you must desire. Allow yourself to resist, and allow yourself to be uncertain. Or do not, that you are equally allowed to do. That is the cross you bear, that is your Love. That Love, nobody can take away, not even you, no matter how blind you or anyone else might be to it.

[Holykael]

13 hours ago, Scholar said:

What you fear is death, because death is ultimate uncertainty. Death is the most radical change into the, appearing, unknown. You are terrified because you do not know what comes after, and that is okay. Look around you, trillions, in fact, infnite of your brothers and sisters facing death every day, and another infinite of them having faced death in the past. Many of them terrified, even more so than you are.

We, as worldly creatures, naturally resist death in the form it is unraveling for us. I could tell you a story that might sooth your mind, but it is likely that you will still experience the uncertainty, the terror, the fear and the dread eventually. This is because you are human. I know that you do not want to experience the fear, the suffering, the loss, the resistance. But I want to remind you that, you are allowed to fear. You are allowed to resist, to want it not to happen. You are allowed to suffer, and to resist your suffering.

In that you can find your ultimate freedom. When the suffering becomes unbearable, when your fear overwhelms you, that is okay, and it is okay for you to not be okay with it.

 

In fact, this is your ultimate freedom, your ultimate Love. You are Christ, bearing the unbearable, as we speak. You are just not realizing it. And that is part of your Love, your Ultimate Sacrifice, your Ultimate Selflessness. You have created yourself, you have made yourself ignorant, so that you could allow Creation to be itself. Creation, including your suffering, your fear.

 

And because you are the Ultimate, your suffering cannot ever harm you. No matter how much your resist, no matter how much you suffer, how much you want it to stop, it will never touch you. It will only appear and disappear in your Presence.

 

So go on my brother. Fear what you must fear, desire what you must desire. Allow yourself to resist, and allow yourself to be uncertain. Or do not, that you are equally allowed to do. That is the cross you bear, that is your Love. That Love, nobody can take away, not even you, no matter how blind you or anyone else might be to it.

Love is such an atrocity that it makes an infinite being martyrise itself for eternity. God is a slave. Love should not exist and neither should God. All horrible atrocities.

[Matthew85]

On 9/2/2022 at 7:11 AM, Inliytened1 said:

The world doesn't go on and mourn your death because the world is held within You.  So when you die, Your Consciousness- God Consciousness- goes on.  All of this is a dream and melts away.

I would be very cautious in accepting this as the truth. There is a lot of information that does not support this as being the case. This belief is based on the idea that only your finite consciousness exists and is constructing the entire world. 

Edited September 12, 2022 by Matthew85