MarkKol

Artists aren't as impactful as engineers, People don't care about Art

91 posts in this topic

17 hours ago, peanutspathtotruth said:

Have you ever cried because art was so beautiful it brought you into the core of beauty, pain, love, the human dilemma, the spiritual path, God, existence, community, or just a struggle you have? This is what art can do. It can transform, heal and evolve us. But being open and receptive to that has to be learned in a way. The more I learn about the visual arts, the more I deeply appreciate movies. It's so far beyond entertainment - the whole package can be so abnormally beautiful that the whole atmosphere is changing my whole internal landscape and inspires me for days on end. This is beauty. 

Very nicely put.


Alternative Rock Music and Spirituality on YouTube: The Buddha Visions

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Intervention by Arcadefire saved my liiife

music taught me things a book never could 


 "Unburdened and Becoming" - Bon Iver

                            ◭"89"

                  

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On 1/3/2022 at 3:03 AM, Random witch said:

Humans are creative by nature, for some people it's a real need to create, as much as for some people to have sex or eat. This is why humans love to do stuff, invent, write, program, draw and built stuff, because some of us need this.

Humans also love beauty and asthetics and are drawn to it naturally since we were born. Some people are more aware, conscious and sensitive to the beauty around them than others, so they have the need to "duplicate" it or to express their admiration to the beauty that they see. How they do that? By painting or creating any form of visual art.

?

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In the United States especially, musicians are generally regarded as sort of useless adjuncts to society, unless they do something creative, like write a Coca-Cola jingle, and then they’ll be accepted. But musicians usually are regarded as sort of the scum of the earth, and so if you want to be a musician, you just have to realize before you start that nobody is really going to care.

- Frank Zappa


Intrinsic joy is revealed in the marriage of meaning and being.

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@MarkKol I think the distinction between art and non-art in our culture is at least partially based on the perceived utility. So when something is perceived as almost useless but sorta pretty, we call it art. 
Art and culture are so embedded, we can't really explain what art does to us. We only know it by feeling and experiencing art and reflecting on these feelings. You are looking for a 'dry' explanation but that cannot capture the essence of art. 

Didn't put too much thought behind this one though :S

Edited by Koeke

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On 28/2/2022 at 11:57 PM, MarkKol said:

these are just my shower thoughts

It might be that I myself can't see the value of writing a novel, producing a film/cartoon & music, but I always enjoyed it. but the impact Art makes on the world seems to be masturatory, take one of the biggest Artists in human history: Picasso, What the hell are paintings supposed to do? they just sit there, people look at them, get a little inspiration or show appreciation, but that's about it. The biggest artist made no difference. but Bill Gates created Windows and allowed computers and the internet to flourish, which made a big difference! Computers made life so much easier, simper, more efficient and much much more. The impact artists make always seemed insignificant when compared to more technical math type of people.

 

As an artist I don’t feel I share this view. It seems you are looking at it more from a utilitarian and pragmatic perspective. Art has not inspired beauty but also informed vision that allows for practical innovators to form their ideas.

Take for example M C Escher who pioneered abstract surrealism and the innovation of architecture. Leonardo DaVinci not only created great art but informed much of modern literature. He also merged his philosophy of art with that of other fields such as science, engineering, biology and architecture. I feel you may need to take a more nuanced lens beyond the mechanist benefits we see now in modern technology.

Edited by Jacobsrw

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Art = Music, drawings/paintings, photography, movies/tv shows etc.

Most human beings enjoy this. Without it, my life would be a lot less worth living.

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   I think it's worth sharing here, but it shows to me how fundamental and foundational art really is, to th3 point that it's not limited ti just human beings:

   Although Leo thought the elephant was trained harshly into being able to paint like that on a previous thread about my art, the point I was making back then was that art wasn't limited to people. Like others have said here, Albert Einstein had a musical hobby and he derived most of his insights of space from the violin, plus allowing himself to imagine being light himself and viewing reality at different points. Maybe how I framed it was off.

   A really good art and engineering fusion, and role modal for you would likely be Nikola Tesla. A skillful scientist and engineer, while also being able to design and draw in his mind, every part of a machine! I'm partly able ti do that, but nowhere near every single part, which is to me an amazing level of visualization skills to reach one day. Mine is Leonardo da Vinci.

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On 3/1/2022 at 2:50 PM, Leo Gura said:

People care more about their fave rapper than they care about their toaster.

What about iPhone vs fave rapper, that seems like a fair-er comparison. I don't even have a toaster... but a lot of people seem to be pretty obsessive about their iPhones and Teslas

Edited by MarkKol

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@MarkKol What are people doing on their phones? Listening to music, watching videos and photographs, playing games, among other things. What's the use of a smartphone if there is nobody there to create all this stuff which you can access on your phone?

As I have said previously, I find this whole business of comparing apples to oranges and trying to argue which one is "better" or which one "people" "care more about" a rather pointless exercise. I am curious what you are expecting to gain? Understanding?

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@KingCrimson

13 hours ago, KingCrimson said:

@MarkKol What are people doing on their phones? Listening to music, watching videos and photographs, playing games, among other things. What's the use of a smartphone if there is nobody there to create all this stuff which you can access on your phone?

As I have said previously, I find this whole business of comparing apples to oranges and trying to argue which one is "better" or which one "people" "care more about" a rather pointless exercise. I am curious what you are expecting to gain? Understanding?

   It's not pointless to compare and contrast things. It's making distinctions between multiple things first, and later synthesizing parts or whole things together, to see what new stuff can be made, but it first begins by acknowledging the differences between them for a start.

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@Knowledge Hoarder

2 hours ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

You just don't get art. Looking at things purely from materialistic/utilitarian aspect, of course art seems useless.

Also, your way of looking at what's the biggest contribution possible, and comparing your contribution to the contribution of others, is just wrong way to go about your life purphose. It doesn't matter - it shouldn't matter. Your main motivation should come from you, needing to release your gifts/talents/skills to the world - having a vision of your future contribution, or wanting to change the world comes second.

Seems to me, as if you're imagining someone in the future telling you "Bro, why the fuck are you doing cartoons? They're so useless. Look at what Steve Jobs did, you should be like him!" Even though you might deny this, you're probably just looking for aproval with this question. Should you, or should you not do cartoons? Who fucking cares? Just do what makes you happy/fullfilled, and what you're good at. Make your motivation internal, not external.

I also don't really enjoy most of art, aside from words being written on a paper. But I don't go around, bellitling artist by comparing them to engineers, and people mantaining purely practical/utilitarian stuff in our society in general.

   I'm not sure if the OP was intentionally belittling artists in general. It certainly seems that way if we are looking at art in general through the materialistic/utilitarian view, but I think this view is important for some part of the creation process of whatever art work one is doing, but I think the order in which to view that way is important, and viewing from the utilitarian way right at the beginning might be the improper time to do so.

   

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When I was younger I use to have this same opinion but when I realized that all of life was art it blew my mind. What is art? Art is the expression of life. That's it!! Art is EXPRESSION!! So anything you do that expresses you is art. The way you talk, the way you walk, your posture, the way you dress. The way you run your business, the way you communicate with people, EVEN THE WAY YOU BREATHE!!! Everything you do is an expression of you, so everything you do is art!

This is why you see books like : The ART of SEDUCTION, The Art of Leadership, The Art of Persuasion, The Art of this....etc etc.

So trying to create a separation between anything an Art is foolhardy!! Even Math is ART!!!! 

Art is how we create, so art is in everything we do. Until you realize this....you will continue to place art in small boxes.


The same strength, the same level of desire it takes to change your life, is the same strength, the same level of desire it takes to end your life. Notice you are headed towards one or the other. - Razard86

Your ACTIONS REVEAL how you REALLY FEEL. Want TRUTH? Observe and ADMIT, do the OPPOSITE of what you usually do which is observe and DENY. - Razard86

Think about it.....Leo gave the best definition of the truth I ever heard...."The truth is what is..." so if that is the truth.... YOUR ACTIONS IN THE PRESENT ARE THE TRUTH!! It's what's happening....do you like what you see? Can you accept it? You are just a SENTIENT MIRROR, OBSERVING ITS REFLECTION..... can you accept what appears? -Razard86

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On 3/22/2022 at 4:25 PM, Danioover9000 said:

   I'm not sure if the OP was intentionally belittling artists in general. It certainly seems that way if we are looking at art in general through the materialistic/utilitarian view, but I think this view is important for some part of the creation process of whatever art work one is doing, but I think the order in which to view that way is important, and viewing from the utilitarian way right at the beginning might be the improper time to do so.

 

Looking back at this, I'd say I was frustrated with art and I still am to some degree, I was trying to be more utilitarian than I naturally am because I was looking for stronger arguments against it. I guess the popularity of this thread debunks my statement "People don't care about art". I just want to feel the significance of art a lot more, I have a left-right brain conflict about it. still I can't help but feel, that making physical products is more suited for me.

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7 hours ago, MarkKol said:

Looking back at this, I'd say I was frustrated with art and I still am to some degree, I was trying to be more utilitarian than I naturally am because I was looking for stronger arguments against it. I guess the popularity of this thread debunks my statement "People don't care about art". I just want to feel the significance of art a lot more, I have a left-right brain conflict about it. still I can't help but feel, that making physical products is more suited for me.

Those physical products is art....


The same strength, the same level of desire it takes to change your life, is the same strength, the same level of desire it takes to end your life. Notice you are headed towards one or the other. - Razard86

Your ACTIONS REVEAL how you REALLY FEEL. Want TRUTH? Observe and ADMIT, do the OPPOSITE of what you usually do which is observe and DENY. - Razard86

Think about it.....Leo gave the best definition of the truth I ever heard...."The truth is what is..." so if that is the truth.... YOUR ACTIONS IN THE PRESENT ARE THE TRUTH!! It's what's happening....do you like what you see? Can you accept it? You are just a SENTIENT MIRROR, OBSERVING ITS REFLECTION..... can you accept what appears? -Razard86

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I was trying to say that your standards are completely subjective and subject to change, 

Defining good art and music by one metric your metric.

The standards will change as you  experience more and your measuring stick becomes something else. 


How is this post just me acting out my ego in the usual ways? Is this post just me venting and justifying my selfishness? Are the things you are posting in alignment with principles of higher consciousness and higher stages of ego development? Are you acting in a mature or immature way? Are you being selfish or selfless in your communication? Are you acting like a monkey or like a God-like being?

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@MarkKol

19 hours ago, MarkKol said:

Looking back at this, I'd say I was frustrated with art and I still am to some degree, I was trying to be more utilitarian than I naturally am because I was looking for stronger arguments against it. I guess the popularity of this thread debunks my statement "People don't care about art". I just want to feel the significance of art a lot more, I have a left-right brain conflict about it. still I can't help but feel, that making physical products is more suited for me.

 

   It's ok to be pragmatic/utilitarian, but view your art work, whatever it is, in thqt light later rather than in the beginning.

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@integral

On 3/26/2022 at 1:22 AM, integral said:

I was trying to say that your standards are completely subjective and subject to change, 

Defining good art and music by one metric your metric.

The standards will change as you  experience more and your measuring stick becomes something else. 

   The opposite is also true as well, lack of or too little information, images, sounds and feelings in that art field, and the lack makes it extremely hard to make an objectifiable standard for good or bad art and in between. Enough standards and contexts surrounding that art, makes it easier to discern your own progress in that field of whatever art field.

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