Runtz

Struggling with Blackpill

416 posts in this topic

@Emerald No, low value providers are not a fine dine meal, they are MCdonalds. It is especially so because basically any woman can afford to be in a relationship with such a guy her value-wise, but not all women can afford to eat in a fine dinery

Metaphorically speaking, by fine dinery I mean everything you could ever want from a man - all around fine package, by MCdonalds I mean - well, you know what I mean by MCdonalds, people who you want way less but still settle for, even if you don't like it 

Not sure how you can tell that MCdonalds tastes good. For me, MCdonalds tastes like shit, it is literally the worst tasting food among all fast food chains, not even mentioning its health effects. Have you eaten in a fine dinery before? I don't know how you can compare that. I actually ate in it recently as an experiment, by far the worst burgers I've ever eaten, even though I bought the most pricey ones. It is although they don't even put vegetables in it, the meal is basically the chepiest small piece of meat put on top of a cheap pattie, covered in some cheap sauce that they have to add a ton of sugar to save it - here is basically the whole meal. At other places they at least put some veggies or use a bit more quality meats

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1 hour ago, Hulia said:

Because you are more unbiased than an average man. And you dont measure the quality of eventual relationship on how long she kept her boundaries or how many men she had before. An average guy would be afraid to go into relationship with a loose girl. So this game is also forced on women by men. On the one hand you want quick and easy sex, on the other hand you don´t want a partner capable of quick and easy sex. But the other reason is of course also the higher need for emotional connection, which still can arrive quicker than in a month :) 

quit saying what's forced on you, only you force you on you, maybe start paying attention to above average guys instead

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

The higher value guy you want to land, the higher his standards will be, the harder it will be lock him down, the more insecure you will feel around him. BTW, the same is true with high value girls, so spare me your tears. High value has a price.

Value is extremely subjective though. Not everyone value the same things.

I see that usually the men on this forum do not assign value to the same things as the women do, so the word "value" becomes an obstacle to a mutual understanding. This concept is a shape shifter and that's also a key element to keep in mind.

More than only objective elements, I value things such as compatibility, common interests, intimacy, easiness, aligned vision, etc.. 

Also, I don't value a relationship with a man I'd be worried to lock "down". Let alone one that would make me feel like I need to bend over and crush my integrity to keep him. A rule that I have is that I want a man to be excited about me in the same way as I am excited about him. And I'd recommend everyone to have the same standard because it's important for the health of a relationship to have two parts that are feeling equally important, to avoid neediness and enmeshment.

 

Edited by Etherial Cat

Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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50 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

quit saying what's forced on you, only you force you on you, maybe start paying attention to above average guys instead

I am not interested in average guys (I mean a mindset).

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12 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Value is extremely subjective though. Not everyone value the same things.

I see that usually the men on this forum do not assign value to the same things as the women do, so the word "value" becomes an obstacle to a mutual understanding. This concept is a shape shifter and that's also a key element to keep in mind.

More than only objective elements, I value things such as compatibility, common interests, intimacy, easiness, aligned vision, etc.. 

Also, I don't value a relationship with a man I'd be worried to lock "down". Let alone one that would make me feel like I need to bend over and crush my integrity to keep him. A rule that I have is that I want a man to be exited about me in the same way as I am exited about him. And I'd recommend everyone to have the same standard because it's important for the health of a relationship to have two parts that are feeling equally important, to avoid neediness and enmeshment.

 

i say the abc's of high value for man and woman is three objective factors:

attractiveness, bank balance, charm / conviviality (that is ability to easily interact with others)

that is how a person will make a decision whether someone is worth their day

save the subjective for later on when you have decided if the person is in your ball park and you in theirs

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Posted (edited)

23 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Value is extremely subjective though. Not everyone value the same things.

I see that usually the men on this forum do not assign value to the same things as the women do, so the word "value" becomes an obstacle to a mutual understanding. This concept is a shape shifter and that's also a key element to keep in mind.

Values are relatively ( subjectivly) objective. A hot chick is valued by men, but woman who are heterosexual don't value that.

That doesn't mean that a general value of people can't exist - what connects us all is that we are surviving, hence why we value the things that is beneficial for our survival.

That's why woman want a bad boy with good boy wibes and guys want hot femine girls XDXD. * if we assume the hetro normative perspective.

That said, individual preferences of course exsist, but general subjective values is a thing. Just becuase it's subjective doesn't mean it doesn't exsist in practice.

Men and woman value different things but what men value, most men generally value, and what woman value - most woman generally value.

Survival value game 101

Edited by SamC

"Sometimes when it's dark - we have to be the light in our own tunnel"

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Posted (edited)

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The average guy is so lonely and desperate that he will be happy to get any girl at all

Finally someone speaking reality. This is the truth girls!

However Leo there have been cases where i got attracted to a girl way after i met her, maybe after talking to her for a dozen hours. Her personality won me over. However these were not like super hot girls, more like normal looking girls but their personality made me super attracted to them, even more than it would for a typical bland hot girl. So there is some nuance here. However i agree, guys usually know fast whether they want to sleep with a girl or not. Girls are the same though, if you are not her type you will not attract her regardless of your game. They are more flexible and will not sleep with just looks but a lot of girls will reject you simply because of your looks.

I am curious, would you consider yourself a high value guy before you started pick up? I mean you were well educated, quite smart, good money wise, successful business, self developed and more consciouss than most people your age and not fat. Does that count as high value?

Edited by Karmadhi

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Posted (edited)

35 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

i say the abc's of high value for man and woman is three objective factors:

attractiveness, bank balance, charm / conviviality (that is ability to easily interact with others)

If you want to have a relationship with someone, it is clear that you should be attracted to them to some extend. But attractiveness is also subjective.

A good bank balance is basically survival capital and it is of course very appreciable. But this shouldn't be part of the relationship goals. Ideally, you'd wish to have your own great bank balance instead of finding a partner with one. Otherwise, you are using your partner as an object towards a bank balance. 

Charm/conviviality is a nice quality. But it's great to have in any relationship with humans.

In my opinion, your three "objective factors" are valuable to you, and while I see the appeal in them they are not "objective factors" and I don't base my value in a partner in them. So you're just projecting your value system on everyone else.

Edited by Etherial Cat

Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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14 minutes ago, SamC said:

Values are relatively ( subjectivly) objective. A hot chick is valued by men, but woman who are heterosexual don't value that.

That doesn't mean that a general value of people can't exist - what connects us all is that we are surviving, hence why we value the things that is beneficial for our survival.

That's why woman want a bad boy with good boy wibes and guys want hot femine girls XDXD. * if we assume the hetro normative perspective.

That said, individual preferences of course exsist, but general subjective values is a thing. Just becuase it's subjective doesn't mean it doesn't exsist in practice.

Men and woman value different things but what men value, most men generally value, and what woman value - most woman generally value.

Survival value game 101

You shouldn't be valuing women just because they are hot. It's foolish.

And she'd be an idiot to get in a relationship with you if that's what you care most about.

If you value hotness primarily in a partner, you are missing out on all the other aspect that makes a relationship great.

18 minutes ago, SamC said:

That's why woman want a bad boy with good boy wibes

Hmm... No! Not at all high value. 😂

You are projecting your own masculine value system on women as a group in general.

Your "bad boy with good vibes" has as much value to me than an old McChicken who's been sitting in the trash for days. :D


Association with the wise is the root cause for obliterating all misery. -  Tripura Rahasya

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7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That is true for low value guys who got no game.

See, this is the problem. Men tend to think low value guys are high value guys. And they seek to emulate low value guys.

The whole purpose of game is to make one so attractive as to condense that typical few months time-frame down to 4 hours.

Sorry... this just does not work. You can't rush it.

Women's intuition works slowly. It's like fermentation. 

If you try to ferment kimchi and you try to do it as fast as possible, your kimchi will taste like shit. And for women who allow this to happen too quickly, she's leaving so much power, emotional stimulation, and sexual satisfaction off the table. 

That's why my recommendation is to have a healthy social circle of several hundred people that you interact with somewhat frequently. And then allowing feelings and situations to arise organically with a man who already exists in proximity to you. It's the best way to get to know a guy before things turn sexual. 

It sounds crazy, but it's possible to do. If you think about it, there is no good reason why it should take a few months to build a deep rapport with a stranger. It only takes that long when people are doing it lazily, unconsciously, by accident. But if you take conscious control over the process, it can happen much faster.

I've been getting male attention on a frequent basis for over 20+ years. It's never bore out in my experience. My experience from earlier mistakes, is that a man with good game can trigger all the sexual stuff pretty quickly. But if you get blindsided by that, you won't be able to develop those more subtle and gratifying feelings.

And most importantly, guys that game are usually bad relationship prospects because they want to always have control of the process and only really know the attraction trigger part. But after the first few months of relationship, this mindset gets in the way.

Also, guys that game are less likely to see women as whole people to be related to and more as a collection of buttons to try to push to get a good response. 

Basically, you can game women's sexuality but you can't game women's love. And you certainly can't game the compatibility factor. 

From a guy's POV, waiting a month to sleep with a girl is just a giant waste of time and energy. As a guy we can figure out whether we want to sleep with a girl within 5 minutes. The rest is just cat and mouse games.

From a woman's POV, this is a low value mindset based on impatience, scarcity-thinking, and only in getting sex.

As a woman, you're far better off avoiding men who cut to the chase right away as this is usually a tell about his priorities and his character. This means that he's coming in cold and doing this to lots and lots of women. And that's the opposite of what you want.

You want him to want you in a more particular way on a more personal/emotional level before anything turns sexual. If you don't do this, you're communicating low standards as a woman as you're accepting randomness from a guy. And that will get you a low quality man who sees you as interchangeable. 

Even though it's called "game", ironically it is women who play the most games. A guy is very clear about what he wants. So the guy's "game" is just a reflection of the game that women force him to play to get what he clearly knows he wants. Because if a guy does not play along with your games, you will reject him.

It's not about playing games. It's about communicating self-respect and setting clear boundaries about what you will and will not accept. This is what a high value woman does. She knows that she's abundant, and she knows her worth. So, she can hold out for the good stuff. 

If you accept low investment behavior from a man and give that man your time and energy, not only will he lose interest in you because it's clear that you're not communicating high value, if he even stays around he will continue the bad behavior. 

Things would be much easier and simpler if we could just approach and say, "Hey, I like you. I think we should fuck." But this doesn't work. It's too truthful. Hence the game. Okay, game on.

Women are much better off not playing the game you're playing. But lucky for you and other men with the same mindset, plenty of women will settle for playing the game with you. But my years of experience have taught me well to pass on anything that's random and low investment on the part of the guy.  

 


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7 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Fucking a girl and getting in a relationship are 2 different things though.

Some guys wanna fuck a girl, some girls wanna fuck a guy, some guys wanna relationship with a girl, some girls wanna relationship with a guy.

You're comparing apples with oranges. You can get ultra good with pickup and somehow fuck every 2-3 billion women on the earth. That's different to a relationship though.

I think what emerald is talking about is a relationship.

You can condense it to 4 hours, to get sex, but to be in a relationship, it could actually be even better game to have patience and allow things to boil over time.

There are studies done that show relationships don't last as long the more sex you have. If you have less sex, the relationships last longer.

You're too narrowly focused on just sex. There's more to relationships then sex, and this narrow focus doesn't help us guys build good relationships.

We need more talk about compatibility and finding common interests. We need more talk about making a relationship last.

You can fuck a girl extremely well and if all you got is pickup and amazing sex (and you dont have a life) then she'll leave you.

And its perfectly possible to be extremely attractive and master pickup as a serial killer, murderer or rapist, good luck to those guys though in making a relationship last.

 

The thing is, is that if you don't have much feelings for a girl and you just find her hot, you'll have the motivation to learn pickup and fuck her, and you probably will end up doing that. But if you have feelings for companionship and relationships, you probably wont wanna fuck her because you'll want to keep her in a relationship. You'll feel more like getting into her soul then her pants.

And you also don't mention that no matter how attractive you are and how much of a sex or pickup master you are, there are gonna still be heaps of women who don't fall for it. There's heaps of asexual hippies out there who only sleep with guys she knows well. Don't delude people into thinking pickup will allow you to sleep with everyone, infact even extremely good pickup artists can only sleep with 30% of the population, that's highly ineffective. The rest of the 70% said no due to them having different types, tastes, compatibility, etc.

This hasn't been proven by studies or talked about, but what I've also noticed is that your attraction is affected by common interests and what your passions are and what hers are. Its also affected by the type of life you have... stuff outside of pickup. So I find it a bit dishonest to make out that pickup makes you so so so attractive that it will allow you to do all this amazing stuff like condense shit to 4 hours when there's a lot more to attracting women then just pickup. If you're only giving guys a quarter of the picture, and making out its the entire picture, you'll have guys trying to get successful with women and failing.

Exactly this! 


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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

You shouldn't be valuing women just because they are hot. It's foolish.

@Etherial Cat Well all guys do and there are no exception to the rule.. like for real. Don't play games.

Quote

And she'd be an idiot to get in a relationship with you if that's what you care most about.

What's up with the insults? I'm a guy who wants a hot girl like everyone else. Does that mean I don't care about how the girl is and the chemistry and personality. No of course I do. But don't try to convince yourself that guys don't seek hot girls. We absolutely do and that's totally fine - it's our survival agenda.

Quote

If you value hotness primarily in a partner, you are missing out on all the other aspect that makes a relationship great.

Lolz. All guys value good looks. That doesn't mean we don't value other things in relationships aswell. In fact - I have fallen in love primarily because of girls personalities.

But again... Don't take for granted what guys want and not want.  All guys value hot girls - that's the truth. Period.

That said, note that I never said that's what is what one should search after in relationships. That was your projection. All I said was that guys value hot girls - why? Becuase we do!

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

You are projecting your own masculine value system on women as a group in general.

Lol no I'm not. Girls want a masculine guy who has integrated his femine side and can provide containment. They want the tamed Lion, who can be an asshole and cold when he needs to, yet super kind to you.

The perfect example of this is Damino or whatever his name is in måneskin. He attracs woman like crazy becuase he is a badass badboy feminie guy.

Quote

Your "bad boy with good vibes" has as much value to me than an old McChicken who's been sitting in the trash for days. :D

That was what my Ex girlfriend said, not me XDXD.

Oh wait, it was the reverse, I remember now.

Girls want good boys with bad boy vibes. That's what she said. 

Also lastly - I really don't want you to feel missunderstood. I know that's the experience on this forum and especially for you girls because you're the minority.

That said, I think everyone can learn from everyone. I know there are a lot of perspectives from the femine that I haven't integrated and disowned but I know that many woman do the same with the masculine perspective.

Both missunderstand eachother and both are fucking wrong and fucking right in their own way.

Edited by SamC

"Sometimes when it's dark - we have to be the light in our own tunnel"

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4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Do whatever you want but I ain't waiting a month to have sex.

This does not hinder my ability to have a relationship.

Is this actually true? How long has been your longest relationship?

The thing is, strong successful men don't wait around for things. They see a thing and act on it immediately. This comes with the territory of being effective in the world. If a man is willing to wait a month to fuck you, this is not a guy you should be fucking. This is a lame beta guy who has no idea how to lead.

High value men have patience to pursue who they want organically.

A high value man knows well enough that they could find a woman anytime they want to.

But a high value man, also has an integrated feminine side where he develops interests on the basis of more than just looks and sex appeal. He will be more selective on the basis of personality and compatibility in a similar way to how women do once his feminine side is integrated. And an integrated feminine side is necessary for a woman to have a functional relationship with that man.  

This is a man who has his self-esteem completely detached from sexual conquest and who knows that he could get laid within the week if he really wanted to. But he requires a higher degree of emotional stimulation to want to pursue.

You want a man who's loins-centered attractions are tempered out by his heart-centered attractions. And tons of these guys exist. It's just that most of them have either grown out of their pick-up phase... or never really needed it in the first place because they got lots of formative organic experiences with the opposite sex between age 12 and age 21. 

A real man is clear about what he wants and is very proactive about it. Women find this highly attractive. Because this is how shit gets done in the world. This is how success is made. This is how wars are won. This is how empires are built. This is how rockets are launched. This is how fires are put out. This is how lives are saved.

Yes, there is the element of being proactive which is very important. But there is also selectivity and tact.

A wise man knows that, if he's interested in a particular woman in his social circle, that he can't be approaching everyone else in the circle. This will give him a bad reputation. And a wise man also knows that most women will screen out men who lead with sexual intent.

So, he will tactful about his proactivity. And he will be very selective and reputation-conscious to avoid poisoning the well of his social circle.

And certainly, it's just easier for a man to go do this with random women. But you don't want the guy who takes the easy way. You want a man who is interested in you in a more particular way.

That's why going for a cold approach guy is a really strategically bad move for women. You decide to give your time and energy to a man who approaches tons of women and has no investment in you at all. That's a bad plan... for obvious reasons. 

 


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1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

You shouldn't be valuing women just because they are hot. It's foolish.

And she'd be an idiot to get in a relationship with you if that's what you care most about.

If you value hotness primarily in a partner, you are missing out on all the other aspect that makes a relationship great.

Hmm... No! Not at all high value. 😂

You are projecting your own masculine value system on women as a group in general.

Your "bad boy with good vibes" has as much value to me than an old McChicken who's been sitting in the trash for days. :D

Yeah, this tends to be an issue with so many guys.

They feel like they understand women's sexuality because they've "learned" a lot about it. But they're actually projecting masculine sexuality onto female sexuality and getting our motives, desires, and biases all wrong. 

But yeah... same here on the bad boys = rotten McChickens in the trash. :D


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Just now, Emerald said:

Yeah, this tends to be an issue with so many guys.

They feel like they understand women's sexuality because they've "learned" a lot about it. But they're actually projecting masculine sexuality onto female sexuality and getting our motives, desires, and biases all wrong. 

But yeah... same here on the bad boys = rotten McChickens in the trash. :D

I also agree. In fact many women on the forum agree.

But why is McDonald's not ready to agree lol ?

Guess they want to keep feeding us rotten Mcchicken lol.xD

 


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Feels like this sub-forum has become the same people trying to convince each other (cough cough) 


Hark ye yet again — the little lower layer. All visible objects, man, are but as pasteboard masks. But in each event — in the living act, the undoubted deed — there, some unknown but still reasoning thing puts forth the mouldings of its features from behind the unreasoning mask. If man will strike, strike through the mask! How can the prisoner reach outside except by thrusting through the wall? To me, the white whale is that wall, shoved near to me. Sometimes I think there's naught beyond. But 'tis enough

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2 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Feels like this sub-forum has become the same people trying to convince each other (cough cough) 

It is that... because it's frustrating to see men be so misguided about what an attractive man is that they try to emulate mediocrity because they think that mediocrity is exceptionality. 


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Posted (edited)

29 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

I also agree. In fact many women on the forum agree.

But why is McDonald's not ready to agree lol ?

Guess they want to keep feeding us rotten Mcchicken lol.xD

 

It's just that they don't know how female sexuality actually is, but they believe that they do. 

And these guys usually have insecurities about female sexuality and female love, so it's threatening for them to empty their cup of "knowings" for a bit and to actually listen to a woman.

Put yourself in their shoes for a moment...

You're a guy who's kind of nerdy and hasn't had a girlfriend all through his high school and college years. And this impacts his self-esteem when he sees his fellow male peers having these experiences. And he feels totally out of control of this facet of his life.

And then, sometime in his 20s, he finds pick up. And he learns all these things that are effective for him.

And now he has control over finding sex and getting dates and he doesn't feel as powerless. And because it has given him some power and control, he decides that what he has learned about female sexuality is true. And that his way of approaching things is best for him and for all women... as a rule.

So, when women say "Actually, I don't respond to that. That's low value attention." He will ignore that and say, "No! All women respond to that."

Meanwhile he's ignoring all the women that have rejected his advances with the same mindset of "Actually, I don't respond to that. That's low value attention." And he will just chalk up the rejections to simply being part of the game, without understanding that most women don't respond to pick up.

And he doesn't allow himself to realize that his success that he's had with women sexually is owed more to some women having lower standards for male investment than it actually has to do with what works for all women. 

And this is because, if pick up doesn't work on ALL women, then this man again feels powerless and out of control of female sexuality and female love. It again, feels to him like an enigma that he can't solve or control. 

But that's the thing about female sexuality. It is a force of nature... like the ocean. And you can learn about how to surf the ocean by noticing basic patterns but the waves are not something that anyone can control.

So, a lot of guys who are into pick-up are wanting to learn how to surf. And this can be really helpful for navigating the waves of the ocean.

But a guy who feels insecure and out of control, will stay in the calm and shallow waters where it's safe and things are in his control. And this is doing pick up and finding the low hanging fruit. And then, he gives himself a trophy for being a great surfer. 

But a woman doesn't want a man who is a master of the shallow waters. A woman wants a man who is willing to challenge himself and surf the big waves because a high value man is a man who penetrates deeply on all levels and who is willing and able to experience a woman's medicine fully without needing to control it. 

Edited by Emerald

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Posted (edited)

38 minutes ago, lmfao said:

Feels like this sub-forum has become the same people trying to convince each other (cough cough) 

Indeed. The Pragmatists vs the inhabitants of Fantasyland.

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A real man is clear about what he wants and is very proactive about it. Women find this highly attractive. Because this is how shit gets done in the world. This is how success is made. This is how wars are won. This is how empires are built. This is how rockets are launched. This is how fires are put out. This is how lives are saved.

Based.

Edited by Harlen Kelly

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2 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

Indeed. The Pragmatists vs the inhabitants of Fantasyland.

The pragmatists are the inhabitants of fantasyland.

Their fantasyland is very useful to them. 

That's why it's so hard to convince them it's not true.

They're like a kid who brushes their teeth because their parents taught them the tooth fairy would be angry and won't give them any money for dirty teeth.

It's very useful. But also very false. 


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