StarStruck

How come that girls can be ruthless against nice guys?

260 posts in this topic

Posted (edited)

56 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

If you were a hardcore incel in the past, you should be that much more carefull about any remaining toxic thoughts you might have.

They may be not angels and perfect human beings, but they aren't enemies either. I understand that to approach women, you gotta have some courage and balls, so you should definitely not have any romanticized picture about them. However, viewing them and looking at them as a target will come back to bite you in the ass eventually, it's gonna fuck up your game. Only a matter of time.

Guys that fuck a lot don't think like this. They just simply don't give a fuck. Simple. There's nothing personal in it for them.

Everyone is on their own really.

I know. I'm not planning to hold these beliefs on the long term but at this moment it works. Girls are my enemy. This mindset is a gamechanger. I'm just going with what works for me, not what works for other people. We are all in different places on our road map. Good advice for one person is bad advice for the other. 

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

Consider that if you were a hard case incel, moving to a milder position might look like a huge shift. Because everything is relative.

There is no perfect A to B plan to get out of incel-hood. I'm just going with what works. At this moment I need to be ruthless and integrate my inner psychopath as Jordan Peterson recommends.

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But to the average person, you might appear stuck in the incel paradigm.

There are no teams. And relationships shouldn't be seen as a zero sum game. 

Exactly. 

Your inner posture and approach towards girls, as well as how you are perceiving yourself is the splinter you've got in the foot. 

There is a strong inner rejection mechanism within you towards girl that sabotage you energetically. 

Also shadow work could do wonders in order to help you.

I wish you good luck and hope things will work for you in the future.  

I will get into shadow work very soon.

Edited by StarStruck

My journal on self-actualization, relationships and dating:

Pickup Express Journal

 

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Posted (edited)

1 hour ago, flowboy said:

If you keep studying "women" as if they're aliens, you will not understand them and it's a road of self-deception.

This is not about women at all, this is about people. You are people. I am people.

They are just treating you like you would treat the relentless sales reps that are calling you literally every day, to convince you to switch phone provider or cable company.

After 19 years of being pestered by relentless salespeople every day, you probably won't be very inclined to write a polite "No thank you, but have an incredible day sir" message either. Especially when you've learnt that most "polite" salespeople, upon seeing a polite message like that, become enraged, even threatening, or emotional, and keep trying to "reason with you". NO. NO VERIZON FOR ME SIR.

So instead of verizon, they're selling their dick. But it's the same thing. You're not interested in it. And every day new guys come to sell you dicks you're not interested in. They're "polite", but you know that that's just a cover. When you say no, they become really unpredictable. Many become butthurt and you have to deal with the fallout. Some even become stalkers. And these salespeople are much stronger than you and can physically hurt you easily. And they are emotionally unstable and wildly unpredictable when you reject them and say the wrong thing as you do it. You never know what will set them off.

Would you treat these salespeople with "respect and dignity" every day after 20 years of being pestered, and upon rejection, called names or even threatened?

Or would you perhaps prefer to not take that gamble, and upon seeing any sign that this one might be one of those, GTF out?

 

And if you're thinking: "But I am so much better than those everyday needy guys, and she should know!", think again. She's not that far off. When a woman rejects you, you still have a substantial emotional reaction. Which is what she can detect, and for her that's the criterium to assume you're "one of those". You know better than to be mean and threatening to women if you don't get your way, and that's great, but you still have the emotional response. It has to go somewhere, so you post on a forum. A much healthier outlet indeed. But she doesn't know that.

All she has to work with, is the question "do I feel like this guy is needy", to determine whether you might become dangerous to her. So she develops her neediness sensors, and uses them to keep her away from needy guys. You might deal with your emotions better than some other guy, but as long as you're still needy, she'll want to GTFO to avoid trouble as soon as she detects that.

Ok, now I'm understanding girls much better. :)

I'm just playing with different paradigms. I'm a needy guy and I'm not ashamed to admit my needs and If they want that non-needy guy I can become it by deception.

I have two options: be authentically needy or be deceptive non-needy.

Girls push me to be the latter.

And currently I do have multiple girls that I'm hitting up. What I'm doing right now works. Girls like to be gamed and that is what I'm doing.

2 hours ago, Lucas-fgm said:

Just relax bro. Seriously, you are in the Netherlands, it's an amazing country and with reeeeally beautiful women. Just keep trying, and I pretty sure you get a hot girl. Try to go to clubs and approach girls. Dutch men usually are pretty shy, so since you emulate the qualities I said to you before, it's going to be easy to stand out. 


I don't have trouble getting phone numbers. I'm just frustrated about their flaking and treating nice guy like my self like dirt. After Flowboy's explanation I kind of get it now.

Edited by StarStruck

My journal on self-actualization, relationships and dating:

Pickup Express Journal

 

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@StarStruck  I mean if the girl is sexually open enough, you can be nice to her, you don't need to play all sorts of games. Just don't push her into having sex if she doesn't want it at the moment and show that you care about her pleasure the same way you care about yours. You are absolutely free to think "I would not date somebody if they wouldn't have sex with me." I also would not, that's a valid expectation, just don't expect it from people who don't wanna give you. I mean, of course there is room for growth, but at one point of development, it stops being about you and it starts being about other people either being up for what you want or not being up for. Don't judge yourself for wanting explicitly consensual wild intimate sex. Your sexuality is completely fine. 

I am curious about this playing with different paradigms, are you actually playing or is there still hurtness? I would love if you could give us more insight into that. I find that sometimes people are playing because they are still judging themselves or afraid of judgement.

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If you identify as a nice guy please watch this video :

 

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On 07/07/2021 at 7:12 PM, StarStruck said:

To defeat the enemy you have to understand their psychology

 

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Posted (edited)

@knakoo It is a good video however that is about being like overly nice and fake nice. We are talking about genouine niceness so when you are nice and kind because that is who you are, not to get sex. You should be nice and kind because that is who you are, not because it would get you girls. Personally i have no issues with being nice and kind and not getting extra points towards getting laid, it is an issue when being GENOUINE nice actually reduces your chances and you are forced to become an arrogant selfish dick. IMO you should not become an arrogant selfish dick if that is not who you are authentically just to get laid. Your realness is more important.

Edited by Karmadhi

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The masculine is the desire to experience the feminine. The feminine is the desire to be experienced by the masculine. When this doesn't go as planned, strife arises. And women want truly masculine men who aren't afraid to experience the feminine fully -- so-called nice guys are trying to get something from women, rather than purely giving them the love of being experienced by the masculine.

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I don't think it is the niceness that is a turn-off. It is just that so many of these nice guys are manipulative and they have some sort of expectation about what all girls want and they are doing that. That's so much worse than attentively listening to the individual's wants and needs, people have both of these different, even if they all are a part of one gender. "Niceness" can be very manipulative. Neediness is same, if you need something, it is like a part of your survival and if you need sex, you would even push for it and that's a huge turn-off. Often these "nice" guys have some sort of sexual shame and shadow in their sexual parts of their minds, so they might push for it but deny it. Wanting on the other hand is not bound by any obstacles, it can just wait for the right moment. Wanting is not a part of a violent agenda.

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   This video might help explain the problem and offer some solutions:

 

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Let´s take a real example from right here:

I am attracted to @Zeroguy

Is he nice or is he an asshole?

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2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

Also regarding the struggles of girls except the 3 i mentioned which can be easily avoided by dating normies over players (getting pumped and dumped, dumped for younger/hotter girls and abused) are there any others? Would be quite curious to know.

Every time you think of some silly theoretical question like this, ask yourself: will knowing some other people on the internet's opinion on this actually help me attract a girl.

You're addicted to these deep dives into theoretical ideas about dating. You need to stop letting your mind ramble on with all these silly theoretical ideas about how the typical woman acts. It's like trying to learn a martial art by reading someone else's descriptions of the moves online. It's dumb as fuck, and I know because I do it too and then realise I've wasted 30mins of my day reading shitty threads like this that end up offering me next to no value whatsoever.

I'm still too much of a pussy to approach as much as I'd like but dear god I can see immediately that you spend way too much time thinking about this and looking for other people's opinions on it online. There is some basic theory you can get from places like this that will help you, but incredibly specific questions like this are 90% your mind performing mental gymnastics and tricking you into thinking you're growing when you're just wasting time

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5 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

Can you give me some examples of this being the case 

How would I even do that? Find some celebrity example? I don't know them, and neither do you, how the f*ck would either of us really know?

I'm speaking strictly from personal experience and from what I've seen in real life with friends and family, and I've been blessed meet and make friends with some genuinely good hearted guys, who just happen to be in loving relationships.

The difference is though, they're not JUST "nice", because it just doesn't fucking cut it, just as "just" anything doesn't work.

Maybe you even have a totally different view of what "nice" is than me, it's pretty subjective.

 

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On 07/07/2021 at 9:56 PM, Etherial Cat said:

@Karmadhi I've watched probably up to 90 % of Leo's videos.

If you had to recommend one or a few of Leo's videos, which one(s) would you choose ?

Do you have other "spiritual teachers" to recommend ?

Personally I love this girl:

And this grandpa:

Sorry guys if that is off topic !

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@something_else

3 hours ago, something_else said:

will knowing some other people on the internet's opinion on this actually help me attract a girl.

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

3 hours ago, something_else said:

It's dumb as fuck, and I know because I do it too and then realise I've wasted 30mins of my day reading shitty threads like this that end up offering me next to no value whatsoever.

People also use instagram which gives 0 value, people do stuff that gives no value in their lives all the time.

 

3 hours ago, something_else said:

tricking you into thinking you're growing when you're just wasting time

Understanding the struggles of others can be useful to know to become more holistic, this is not a matter of getting better with girls, it is a matter of feeling less like you were dealt the harder hand.

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8 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@knakoo It is a good video however that is about being like overly nice and fake nice. We are talking about genouine niceness so when you are nice and kind because that is who you are, not to get sex. You should be nice and kind because that is who you are, not because it would get you girls. Personally i have no issues with being nice and kind and not getting extra points towards getting laid, it is an issue when being GENOUINE nice actually reduces your chances and you are forced to become an arrogant selfish dick. IMO you should not become an arrogant selfish dick if that is not who you are authentically just to get laid. Your realness is more important.

Hum I always associated being nice as being a little bit fake, because it feels so bland. Not sure if someone truly in touch with his/her authentic self can be "nice". 

If a guy has regular thoughts like "I am a nice guy", I think starting to think "I am a kind man" could be helpful. Of course not taking all of the "I am ..." thoughts seriously is even better. 

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9 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

Yes it is, otherwise you wouldn't care enough to ask in the first place. Use some common sense, they're the physically weaker sex. Or imagine having unattractive traits as a woman, there's far less you can do about it that because many of those traits are inherent. There are also a whole host of stereotypes that generally affect women poorly in day to day life, they're definitely not all gone yet.

Quote

Understanding the struggles of others can be useful to know to become more holistic, this is not a matter of getting better with girls, it is a matter of feeling less like you were dealt the harder hand.

This is just some bullshit your mind concocted for you right now. I'm not just speaking about this specific question btw, it's the general impression I get from reading all of your posts is that you are way too theoretical. Though, I can see that posting these things here might be cathartic, so if that works for you then you do you. But what you're likely doing is just further reinforcing these random negative musings into your mind even though it makes you feel better

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11 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

This is not about attracting girls, Leo said "you do not know what girls struggles are" as if i am ignoring them, i just do not know what they are.

Not knowing what they are can still lead to hurting others. If you just assume somebody was not raped and you victim blame in front of them... Isn't that kinda not nice?

11 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

People also use instagram which gives 0 value, people do stuff that gives no value in their lives all the time.

This is actually an interesting topic, some people might have horrible self esteem issues and their life situation might be so bad and out of control that they simply have to escape somewhere and postpone the work for better times, sometimes addictions keep people alive. That's another way to look at it.

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Posted (edited)

Isn't it obvious ...

Girls in today's society have a disproportionate amount of power and options compared to men, like remarkably disproportionate. 

Covid, social media & dating apps have made this phenomenon far far worse. 

Essentially girls are spoilt for choice ... Not just beautiful women but even a female 6, has far superior choice and social prowess than a male 7.5. 

Nice guys aren't good looking enough, high value enough, rich enough and especially aren't good looking enough. 

The dickheads are most likely good looking, or supremely high value in some other way + good looking enough beyond a minimum threshold. 

P.s : I am not complaining or playing victim or crying about this, I accept reality & basic market economics 100% ....

BUT, what is disturbing is the complete contempt & disregard many women actually have to "nice guys", "Incels", or guys they are unattracted to. The term "Incel" itself has a negative connotation & IMO is nearly similar (but obviously nowhere near as comparably extreme or damaging as) dating equivalent of N*****

It's one thing to reject but to do so with contempt shows that many of these women are just spoilt and have no empathy for all the struggling guys, who are struggling purely due to their genetic disadvantage, they try to overide that but are met with ridicule and discontempt. 

I recently swallowed the black pill .... It has it's flaws, but it gets a lot of stuff right I think. (I dunno challenge me I am open minded, minds always changing). 

Edited by Striving for more

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25 minutes ago, Striving for more said:

Girls in today's society have a disproportionate amount of power and options compared to men, like remarkably disproportionate. 

Except from the fact that like 80% of the worlds leaders and wealthiest individuals are men, yea. Women have more inherent value, so life can be easier for them in some ways, but they pay for it in others that you simply also lack the empathy to be aware of.

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Essentially girls are spoilt for choice ... Not just beautiful women but even a female 6, has far superior choice and social prowess than a male 7.5

Yea but her value could be stuck firmly at a 6, as a guy you have far more control over where you are on the scale but the cost of that is starting lower on average.

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BUT, what is disturbing is the complete contempt & disregard many women actually have to "nice guys", "Incels", or guys they are unattracted to. The term "Incel" itself has a negative connotation & IMO is nearly similar (but obviously nowhere near as comparably extreme or damaging as) dating equivalent of N*****

This is literally in your head, it's painfully obvious you've just theorised this with no real world experience or read other people say it. There's a difference between a bitter incel and say, a normal guy who is just shy, or someone who has an unattractive face. Incels are legit dangerous, the other two there are not. As long as you're not creepy woman will probably be more empathetic towards your struggles than guys will.

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It's one thing to reject but to do so with contempt shows that many of these women are just spoilt and have no empathy for all the struggling guys. 

And you have no empathy for the struggles women might face. You see how easy it is for them to do the things you struggle with and assume that means everything in their life is great.

I agree with you, what incels probably need is some love and care and empathy. I usually argue on the side of having empathy for them as well, I just disagree with the particular viewpoint you have of blaming women for any of this. If a guy is repeatedly creepy you can't expect all women to be angelic in how they treat him, he deserves some painful rejections to correct that creepiness.

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@Lucas-fgm

3 minutes ago, Lucas-fgm said:

I love women and just accept the way they are, but they really do have a disproportionate amount of options compared to men in dating.

So I have to agree with you on this.

 On this, I have to completely disagree with you, I know many handsome "nice" guys. That gets rejected all the time for ugly guys.

 

Fair play, I Hope that is true and possible but

It is just reality is so harsh and shallow, I don't know anymore, perhaps I am wrong, but the black pill guys provided such compelling arguments, far more cogently with more evidence than Leo would argue otherwise. 

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