If the dating market is a market, then why it's not regulated,at least online dating

[Tangerinedream]

Instead of expecting women to drop their standards and give pity sex to these poor struggling incels, why don’t you guys drop your expectations a bit too. You are all out here aiming only for girls who are a ‘10’
you expect that you should get the best quality girls handed to you on a silver platter. 
Why shouldn’t high quality girls also want a high quality man. 
Today girls have the right to choose, so that means that you have to up your game. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Tangerinedream

[Karmadhi]

@Emerald Amazing explanation. Thank you.

[Karmadhi]

@WaveInTheOcean I never ever said that guys get girls for no reason. That is a crazy straw men you made. I said guys should learn how to socialize and attract girls in a socially healthy way. Talking to girls in a mall and being called a creep by 95 percent of society for doing so is not a healthy way. Healthy way is to learn it through education system which not only does not teach this stuff, it actually makes it worse with all the bullshit "all genders are the same" stuff. This is not about me for fuck sake, stop making it personal. I ALREADY know how attraction works, i am talking about the millions that don't and feel hopeless. I used not to understand it at ALL and thought being nice and kind and handsome got you girls due to the bullshit media and popular opinions people have these days. Had to learn it through sheer experience and observation and would like if this shit was taught by society instead of having to read some RSD forum for it and then get demonized by most of society for being sexist.

"He's not alluding to forcing women to have sex or something. That's quite a ridiculous strawman. He's seeing and pointing out to a MASSIVE societal issue, which is the unmet needs of a vast majority of men, and seeking to find healthy solutions. Not for himself, but on a societal scale". 

This is a response someone gave that perfectly explains what i meant with my thread.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Karmadhi]

@Peter Miklis Just watch Leo's videos on this topic, they are really good and no bullshit explanations. Do not trust girls about what attracts them because most are not aware of it.

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Peter Miklis said:

What would be the buttons then, from your perspective and understanding of women's sexuality? Or is it too specific and non - objective to know? Is it like a right mix of masculinity and femininity, or something like that?

I guess it's understandong what the woman wants. 

 

[Preety_India]

3 minutes ago, Peter Miklis said:

@Karmadhi  "Just integrate your femininity bro! Do you even shadow work?" I'm just interested if the latter holds at least some significance in being attractive.

I don't think that integrating feminine means looking or acting feminine if that's what you're assuming it to be, no, because in that case that would be obviously unattractive. 

 

[DaveB]

Well, some guys try a lot...

 

 

[Karmadhi]

@DaveB There is already a thread about this. It depends how you try and how bad your skills are when you start. I think most Incels have actually tried unlike what most people on this forum including Leo say but the amount of effort you need if your social skills are bad (and you re not very handsome) is insane for most average people to bear. This guy did 300, YES 300 approaches and got no results. Leo did 440 to get his first results. Imagine what kind of tenacity you need to do that amount and still keep moving forward. The average guy stands no chance, you need willpower of a god. 

Keep in mind most people will not need that amount of trying to get some results. This is the case for people with horrible social skills due to lack of lifelong experience. Which is why most incels stay incels.

Also quality of the advice matters too. Some advice is better than others. RSD is amazing for inner game and general advice  but their outer game strategy is kind of  lacking in terms of how to handle objections, how to get the girl to come to your place, what to text etc. John Anthony Lifestyle seems to be the best regarding pure logistics and objection handling to maximize the chances of a girl to sleep with you.

Edited May 28, 2021 by Karmadhi

[RendHeaven]

18 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

maximize the chances of a girl to sleep with you.

bruh

[Jacob Morres]

Lots of bickering and conflicts here. Not a fan tbhh 

What if we could come together and talk it out. I think that could solve some issues 

 

 

Edited May 28, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

No need for anything at all

Just love

Exactly.

I don't want to.

It's a silly game you're playing and I don't wanna waste time participating, yet here I am?!

Disturbing indeed.

Hehe.

The last part about the dog whistle, can you elaborate? I feel autistic for not fully getting what you meaning; you're saying my unintelligent vulgar post is just more wood to the incels bonfire?

No. That's not what I'm saying. Noticing a dog whistle means picking up on the underlying implication of something that's said/written, even if that which is being said/written is meant to to cloak the deeper sentiment.

A dog whistle is that which is at a pitch that only dogs can hear. So, whenever someone is expressing some kind of racist, sexist, homophobic, or otherwise unpopular point of view, but wants to have plausible deniability, they will express things in the form of a dog whistle. That way, they can say, "What!? That's not what I meant! You're reading too much into it and straw manning!"

So, the dog whistle is "Shouldn't there be regulations in the dating market if there are regulations in the financial market?" which seems (to the uninitiated) like something to simply ponder into. Just some food for thought to mull over intellectually.

But those who actually hear the dog whistle (like yourself), pick up on the subtext that women are being framed as a commodity/resource. And that the OP sees women in this light and is perhaps (on some level) comfortable with women's sexual choices being controlled by something other than herself as she is object to him, not subject. Basically, it betrays that he sees female sexual sovereignty and bodily autonomy as a problem in need of solving.

Now, do I think the dog whistle is conscious? Probably not.

The OP probably doesn't realize that he views women as objects. He also probably thinks (as of now) that he supports women's right to sexual sovereignty. But that's only because it would be an unpopular opinion to express and doesn't want to recognize that opinion that he holds. 

But, if the social and political tides start to turn again toward a more patriarchal slant, those with his paradigm will be the first to pop out of the woodwork to support the reneging of those rights.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Peter Miklis said:

What would be the buttons then, from your perspective and understanding of women's sexuality? Or is it too specific and non - objective to know? Is it like a right mix of masculinity and femininity, or something like that?

It's very specific. You pick up on this particular guy's energy and vibe and gestures and flaws. And that all adds up to more than the sum of his parts. 

I remember in the 7th grade, I had a huge crush on this kid Billy. And he had a really wide squarish head. Something that would definitely be regarded generally as unattractive. My friend Joe used to call him fat head.

But every time I'd see him from the back, I'd notice that particularity about him and just feel all kinds of fireworks. And it was little things like that were attractive because they were part of him, but were not attractive in general.

And this has always been the case for me. It's always the feelings that his unique idiosyncrasies (physical traits, gestures, patterns of speech, vocal tone, flaws) create a vibe and that vibe itself is enticing. 

Now, as far as polarity goes, I am a woman who is mostly feminine with some masculine... maybe a 75%/25% split. And I'm rarely attracted to hyper masculine guys beyond simply recognition that "Okay, I see this person is objectively attractive." I usually get the Cupid's Arrow for men who are mostly masculine with some feminine... again probably 75/25. And it's nearly always been that split for me. 

These are the men that I'm most polarized to because my feminine side is attracted to their masculine side and my masculine side is attracted to their feminine side. That's how polarity works. You attune to your own energetic signature and you find someone with the mirror opposite.

But some common things with all attractions are these ecstatic feelings in the center of the chest and base of the spine... and a general warmth and relaxation upon thinking of the guy.

But I've never felt the same way about someone twice. Each attraction I've had deals directly with the unique energy of the person.

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Emerald Amazing explanation. Thank you.

Thank you and you're welcome!

[bejapuskas]

@Karmadhi  I understand why you would say that not having sex makes a guy misogynistic. But then do you think as a virgin who does not get sex you cannot understand women? Also an issue with regulating such market if it existed would be that the women are not in any way obliged to listen to you about who they should and should not be having sex with, that sounds horribly wrong.

 

[WaveInTheOcean]

15 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@WaveInTheOcean Talking to girls in a mall and being called a creep 

Thanks for elaborating -- sorry if i was being too rude.

Last point from me: it's not so about what, when and where you talk to girls; it's how you do it, how you talk, how you approach, the subtle implicit energy you're sending out.

With charisma, self-love & high self esteem, you can easily talk to strange girls in the supermarket without being seen as creepy.

But yeah - evening/night time/parties are often the best time to approach.

When doing cold approaching, sex is btw only a side benefit / added bonus; the main benefit / gold of doing cold approach is it can boost your self esteem, self-love a fucking lot which means it about self development ans learning to be well balances/well contained in regards to ones natural masculinity.

[WaveInTheOcean]

@Emerald thx for elaborating :-) makes sense!

[Gidiot]

I think a healthy solution to this problem would be more social gatherings that are well put together and marketed well. Yes we have bars yes we have parties but those are too private maybe like a government contracted venue or even community sponsored events where people can come out of their shell. Something where it’s easy for shy people to connect
 

I agree that you can’t see women as a commodity like money and so regulating the marketplace is tough. Personally the more social you are the higher your chances of getting a girlfriend or something casual happen. their advice to cold approach may be true but it won’t work for everyone. Sometimes it helps to be “set up” even though in a lot of countries it is done against someone’s free will which isn’t right IMO.

Maybe bars are too outdated maybe we need a variety of safe social functions after the virus is gone.
 

Personally online dating has been a boon for me and I don’t think I’m even that attractive. But truly it’s definitely a numbers game in the socializing and dating field you are likely going to have to talk to a lot of women to get dates or sex. This is fine in my opinion yea it sucks that we have to do the approaching as guys but it can be fun sometimes, and also we mustn’t forget about the needs of women, mostly they don’t want just sex and so they will be naturally selective. They want to make sure that you are going to be there in the morning so to speak.

 

we want an animalistic conquest, personally I agree with Leo, most men just need to get the sex fucked out of them and then around 30 they are ready to commit this is obviously a generalization but it seems true for me. 
 

so it is valid advice to get laid enough until you don’t need to anymore but most people would be happier with a girlfriend and maybe the long term commitment can come once they have released enough sexual energy.

 

just my two cents

 

[intotheblack]

Bring back singles nights and blind dates. 

[intotheblack]

Another thing is that with the rise of dating apps and social media, there is now way too much choice.  You meet someone but think maybe there is someone better so you ditch them.  People have became way, way more disposable.  Because of dating apps it’s made guys see girls as literally just a number, how many matches can they get, how many girls can they sleep with.  Literally just a number. 
and because of how glaringly obvious this has become, girls have become much more cautious about who they go out with.  
It’s always been known that men want sex, but because of social media etc. It’s much more out in the open and girls are more aware about being used and what red flags to look out for. 
so it seems they became more picky, but really they just got more aware. 

Edited May 29, 2021 by intotheblack

[Shin]

We can't apply the same logic as other systems for dating and relationships.
It is not the same to create equal chances in workplace and educations than in it is for dating and relationships.

The difference is that in dating and relationships, what comes first and foremost, is attraction.
In the conditions of getting a job and getting into a college, this should solely be put on your capacity to do the work and study efficiently (which is the case in Western Europe, for the most part).

For dating and relationships, attraction isn't just some objective skill you can check with a test.

Attraction for a women depends on how much the guy in question is confident, is playful and have humor,  is detached and non needy + have a purpose greater than the girl, is adventurous and challenging, and is capable of giving her Intimate & dirty sex (yes, directly paste from Leo's video, but it's just the 100% truth ).

That's a bit different than just big titties, nice face, curvy ass (with of course decent personality if it is for a relationship).
Now you just sprinkle a bit of selection with spiral dynamics on top of that, and you understand pretty much 75% of how attraction works.

This can't be institutionalized

What can work though, is progressing through stage green and yellow more, which will allow us (the society as a whole) to see this problem more clearly, without judgment, and being able to educate our younglings better on how to be social, make friends, be attractive to the opposite sex from a very early age.

That's already started in Nordic countries in Europe to some degrees If I'm not mistaken.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Shin