If the dating market is a market, then why it's not regulated,at least online dating

[Shin]

We can't apply the same logic as other systems for dating and relationships.
It is not the same to create equal chances in workplace and educations than in it is for dating and relationships.

The difference is that in dating and relationships, what comes first and foremost, is attraction.
In the conditions of getting a job and getting into a college, this should solely be put on your capacity to do the work and study efficiently (which is the case in Western Europe, for the most part).

For dating and relationships, attraction isn't just some objective skill you can check with a test.

Attraction for a women depends on how much the guy in question is confident, is playful and have humor,  is detached and non needy + have a purpose greater than the girl, is adventurous and challenging, and is capable of giving her Intimate & dirty sex (yes, directly paste from Leo's video, but it's just the 100% truth ).

That's a bit different than just big titties, nice face, curvy ass (with of course decent personality if it is for a relationship).
Now you just sprinkle a bit of selection with spiral dynamics on top of that, and you understand pretty much 75% of how attraction works.

This can't be institutionalized

What can work though, is progressing through stage green and yellow more, which will allow us (the society as a whole) to see this problem more clearly, without judgment, and being able to educate our younglings better on how to be social, make friends, be attractive to the opposite sex from a very early age.

That's already started in Nordic countries in Europe to some degrees If I'm not mistaken.

 

Edited May 29, 2021 by Shin

[Hardkill]

On 5/26/2021 at 5:43 PM, Preety_India said:

If you think that women have a luxury when it comes to dating, that's simply not true. You can show me 100 profiles of men and I might not be attracted to any of those.

Wait, but you said to me in my thread entitled, "Is it possible to never find ANY girls who perceive you to be their type?":   

Quote

If I were approached by 30 men or less, I would find some compatibility with at least a few of them. Haha. If you approached 1000s, you will find many compatible matches.

 

Edited May 30, 2021 by Hardkill

[Preety_India]

@Hardkill I'm talking about possibilities. The hand of the clock can swing in any direction.. 

[RareGodzilla]

I feel that there is some truth to this. The main problem is that you can't treat people like resources. Although capitalism sure as hell does this pretty often. But that's why I don't see regulation in this regard solving more problems than it would cause them. 

But is do feel that to some extend economic equality will help solve this problem too. That's why it maskes more sense to focus on those issues in terms of government and politics.  A lot of incel-ness stems out of realities of modern world. Too much work, economic inequality and societal fragmentation. Allowing people financial stability, humane work hours and a society that has infrastructure friendly too socialize in public would surely help a lot to level the problem that we are talking about. 

Lastly on the topic of online dating. It's a bit of a cesspool. Letting private corporations take care of that is very problematic, exactly because it turns human into a resource that needs to turn a profit. The online dating market definitely needs to be rethought. I'm all in for the nationalization of platforms like tinder. This aspect needs to be regulated. 

Edited May 30, 2021 by RareGodzilla

[Hardkill]

On 5/30/2021 at 1:15 AM, Preety_India said:

@Hardkill I'm talking about possibilities. The hand of the clock can swing in any direction.. 

Oh, so you're saying that it possible that you may come across 100 guys in a row whom you wouldn't feel compatible with, but that possibility would still be very unlikely, yeah?

[Preety_India]

40 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Oh, so you're saying that it possible that you may come across 100 guys in a row whom you wouldn't feel compatible with, but that possibility would still be very unlikely, yeah?

You missed the point. What I'm trying to say is that you are trying to limit yourself by thought. But in reality anything is possible. 

Why do you have severe limitations? 

Why not free yourself and try anything you want and then see what results you get? 

 

[Hardkill]

48 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You missed the point. What I'm trying to say is that you are trying to limit yourself by thought. But in reality anything is possible. 

Why do you have severe limitations? 

Why not free yourself and try anything you want and then see what results you get? 

 

Honestly, it's because I get easily demoralized after getting constantly rejected by countless women from everywhere. It often makes me question whether I will be able to improve my skills with women to a significant degree or will I will always just have to rely on luck to hopefully get another girl who has chemistry with me.

Edited June 6, 2021 by Hardkill

[4201]

3 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Honestly, it's because I get easily demoralized after getting constantly rejected by countless women from everywhere. It often makes me question whether I will be able to improve my skills with women to a significant degree or will I will always just have to rely on luck to hopefully get another girl who has chemistry with me.

You can play the number's game if you want or you can just hit the gym and improve yourself. You can talk about chemistry all day but if there's no physical attraction chemistry is not even considered.

Why did I reject this fat and low self-esteem women? Was it because of poor chemistry? No, it's just my survival bias gearing me toward women who are hot. Of course if she would ask me why I didn't want her I would say something like "oh we just aren't made for one another, we don't have chemistry" but really that's kind of a whole spoon of nice bullshit.

[Hardkill]

13 minutes ago, 4201 said:

You can play the number's game if you want or you can just hit the gym and improve yourself. You can talk about chemistry all day but if there's no physical attraction chemistry is not even considered.

Why did I reject this fat and low self-esteem women? Was it because of poor chemistry? No, it's just my survival bias gearing me toward women who are hot. Of course if she would ask me why I didn't want her I would say something like "oh we just aren't made for one another, we don't have chemistry" but really that's kind of a whole spoon of nice bullshit.

I already hit the gym like crazy for over 7-8 years and I close to having the body of a fitness model and did martial arts with solid dedication and commitment for over 13 years. I've also done long distance running training consistently for over 3 years now. 

Edited June 6, 2021 by Hardkill

[4201]

9 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I already hit the gym like crazy for over 7-8 years and I close to having the body of a fitness model and did martial arts with solid dedication and commitment for over 13 years. I've also done long distance running training consistently for over 3 years now. 

Hard to say what's your problem from my POV but if you are jacked and passionate about your hobbies you would do well on dating apps. Where are you trying to flirt exactly?

Edited June 6, 2021 by 4201

[RendHeaven]

7 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

I already hit the gym like crazy for over 7-8 years and I close to having the body of a fitness model and did martial arts with solid dedication and commitment for over 13 years. I've also done long distance running training consistently for over 3 years now. 

35 minutes ago, Hardkill said:

Honestly, it's because I get easily demoralized after getting constantly rejected by countless women from everywhere. It often makes me question whether I will be able to improve my skills with women to a significant degree or will I will always just have to rely on luck to hopefully get another girl who has chemistry with me.

lol yikes man your personality must really suck 

[4201]

1 minute ago, RendHeaven said:

lol yikes man your personality must really suck 

Nothing sucks more of a personality than being the guy who gets off saying shit like this lol

[RendHeaven]

9 minutes ago, 4201 said:

Nothing sucks more of a personality than being the guy who gets off saying shit like this lol

Just saying what needs to be said. The personality is clearly the problem, it's frankly a disservice that nobody has brought it up.

You actually have to suck astronomically to not get women while "having the body of a fitness model"

Edited June 6, 2021 by RendHeaven

[4201]

1 minute ago, RendHeaven said:

Just saying what needs to be said. The personality is clearly the problem, it's frankly a disservice that nobody has brought it up.

You actually have to suck astronomically to not get women while "having the body of a fitness model"

That's just your assumption. For someone to be turned off by your personality they need to actually know you. If he's trying to do pick up in the street I'm not surprised if that doesn't go anywhere.

There's so many other possibilities too, the guy could be 4'2 for all I know....

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, 4201 said:

That's just your assumption.

You're right... at the same time though, I'd like to imagine that I at least have an *informed* assumption.

Attracting straight women as a straight man is actually not rocket science(!!!), so even though we're all fundamentally assuming things about our dear Hardkill, I think we can still strongly point towards what needs work, without waffling in uncertainty.

Maybe I'm naive but I sincerely believe that all guys can learn to "get good" with women because charisma is trainable & not static.

[4201]

3 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

You're right... at the same time though, I'd like to imagine that I at least have an *informed* assumption.

Attracting straight women as a straight man is actually not rocket science(!!!), so even though we're all fundamentally assuming things about our dear Hardkill, I think we can still strongly point towards what needs work, without waffling in uncertainty.

Maybe I'm naive but I sincerely believe that all guys can learn to "get good" with women because charisma is trainable & not static.

"Being good with women" is a fake skill, most women don't want to be treated like a rubix cube you learn to solve, just like a normal human being. If all of this charisma stuff essentially comes from a place of neediness that will be felt and none of this charisma will matter. On top of that being charismatic essentially comes naturally if you let go of all that neediness and insecurity. Do you think the most attractive guys studied how to be attractive? No, it just probably never was a problem for them. They never made it into one so they never became insecure.

What if super unattractive women tried to study you to "crack your code" so they can trick you into sleeping with them? Would that make them more attractive? Of course this is ridiculous because I stated the assumption that they are unattractive. What makes you unattractive is not your lack of "women skills" or "charisma" but insecurity. It's not about understanding how to talk to women, it's about understanding the person you are talking to in front of you.

I do see this mentality as being a big factor. My idea was that if you are jacked AF, even with this trash mentality you can still score and hopefully this can help someone gain the confidence they need to let go of that mentality. But hey, if it's possible to look like superman yet be so needy you can't find anyone I guess this is possible.

[RendHeaven]

1 minute ago, 4201 said:

"Being good with women" is a fake skill

Being "good with women" vs being "bad with women" is the difference between women throwing themselves at you and saying things like "I love you," "lets hang out" vs being completely ignored or pushed away... maybe from certain perspectives, this distinction is "fake," but from other perspectives (mainly, the biased survival perspective of the typical hetero male) this distinction feels like life or death!

4 minutes ago, 4201 said:

If all of this charisma stuff essentially comes from a place of neediness that will be felt and none of this charisma will matter. On top of that being charismatic essentially comes naturally if you let go of all that neediness and insecurity.

Exactly.

I'm advocating that dudes learn genuine charisma, not compensating charisma.

6 minutes ago, 4201 said:

What makes you unattractive is not your lack of "women skills" or "charisma" but insecurity.

I don't really make a distinction between charisma and lack of insecurity - these go hand in hand.

[4201]

6 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

Being "good with women" vs being "bad with women" is the difference between women throwing themselves at you and saying things like "I love you," "lets hang out" vs being completely ignored or pushed away... maybe from certain perspectives, this distinction is "fake," but from other perspectives (mainly, the biased survival perspective of the typical hetero male) this distinction feels like life or death!

Exactly.

I'm advocating that dudes learn genuine charisma, not compensating charisma.

I don't really make a distinction between charisma and lack of insecurity - these go hand in hand.

Fair enough but saying to someone "your personality suck" is quite ironic then, because you are just trying to put more weight into the pile of insecurities, which is the source of the personality "sucking" in the first place.

If you agree with me that "bad personality" = "being insecure about yourself" then being insecure about your personality is totally circular and ironic. Thus your personality is never bad, this is just an idea being believed and thus realized. In practice your personality is infinitely great, you just have to stop believing it's bad and thus making it appear as bad.

Edited June 6, 2021 by 4201

[Harlen Kelly]

@4201 If you have a certain behavioral pattern that is pushing people away but you believe it is a good behavioral pattern, does the behavioral pattern become a ''good'' behavioral pattern just because you believe is good? 

Personalities are not good or bad, certain behavioral patterns are more effective than others when interacting with people. 

The statement ''your personality is never bad'' does not make any sense simply because some behavioral patterns can be detrimental for your growth and your ability to interact with others. Being emotionally attached to a behavioral pattern that is detrimental for you is not very rational. 

[RendHeaven]

@4201 @Harlen Kelly You're both simultaneously right.