If the dating market is a market, then why it's not regulated,at least online dating

[Hulia]

10 hours ago, Aaron Truth said:

I am just here to see if this was a real post. 

:)))))) I still cannot beleive it! It must be an illusion!  

[intotheblack]

29 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's not as easy as just go talk to girl, though. It's also about the ability to nurture a healthy relationship with the Feminine, both inside and outside.

Incels, and men with blackpill/redpill ideologies are no catch, as they resent, mistrust and want to control the Feminine.

Whatever pick up technic is learnt doesn't change the fact that no healthy woman will want to date a man who hold such views and beliefs - unless she is equally broken.

When the inside piece is reintegrated, its much easier to meet girls and have fulfilling relationships. 

So incels have to work on both aspects.

Exactly.  Reparenting oneself along with socialising, with all types of people not only girls. This is a key thing people miss out on, forming friendships and deepening non - romantic relationships that they already have. 

This is even more important than just trying to pickup women. 

Start forming friendships/non-romantic relationships with real people without expectations, instead of bypassing that and going straight to talk to girls without any core human social skills.  This might work short term to get a quick lay, but there is no foundation there to actually create a bond.

Start seeing women as fellow humans, and not just as people who should be putting out. 
It’s this sense of entitlement around sex that needs to change. 

Incels think that women owe them sex but at the same time show hatred and disrespect towards them.  Why would a healthy human want to be around that type of person? 

Edited May 27, 2021 by intotheblack

[Shin]

47 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's not as easy as just go talk to girl, though. It's also about the ability to nurture a healthy relationship with the Feminine, both inside and outside.

Incels, and men with blackpill/redpill ideologies are no catch, as they resent, mistrust and want to control the Feminine.

Whatever pick up technic is learnt doesn't change the fact that no healthy woman will want to date a man who hold such views and beliefs - unless she is equally broken.

When the inside piece is reintegrated, its much easier to meet girls and have fulfilling relationships. 

So incels have to work on both aspects.

You mean

This 

?

[Emerald]

6 hours ago, TK2021 said:

He's not alluding to forcing women to have sex or something. That's quite a ridiculous strawman. He's seeing and pointing out to a MASSIVE societal issue, which is the unmet needs of a vast majority of men, and seeking to find healthy solutions. Not for himself, but on a societal scale.

I don't think any of the answers so far really understand the gravity of this problem - and the propositions given so far have missed the root of the problem. The problem is that when women are given sexual freedom it results into a Pareto Distribution, where 20% of the males get 80% of the women - at least in a purely sexual sense. This is the case, even if all the men are attractive. Only the top 20% most attractive ones will clear the table. Now I'm not saying that we should revert back to arranged marriages or something, but this is some really serious inequality, which is just mopped under the rug. And nobody has any solutions for this inequality, except for these sexless men to pick themselves up by their bootstraps. Which is such a silly and naive, dead end proposition anyways, when taking into consideration the sexual nature of men and women.

There is zero empathy for these people - in fact, there only seems to be disdain. Just like the cliche capitalist views a poor person. "He is just a loser, he deserves his fate. UNLESS HE WORKS HARD. And even if he works hard and doesn't succeed, then he is just a loser, who deserves his suffering and it is not my problem." We cannot extend our empathy towards this issue - why is that? 

When there is talk about “regulating the sexual market place” that means that a regulatory body of sorts (like the government) would be taking away women’s role as selector and the freedom to choose the sexual/romantic partner that they want.

And that isn’t a straw man. That’s just literally what “regulating the sexual marketplace” means.

And even in your post you acknowledge that you see women’s sexual freedom and ability to choose who they want to sleep with as a “problem” in need of solution. 

Also, your idea that some men just can’t get laid is not true. Just go out and talk to women and you will eventually find a woman to sleep with or have a relationship with. And that’s true no matter who the guy is.

Trust me, I’ve known tons many unattractive or nerdy guys who get laid and have had relationships. The last guy friend of mine from my hometown to lose his virginity (at age 19) was a very overweight, awkward guy, with no sense of style, who was really into Anime. And he was a late bloomer. 

The big difference is that these nerd guys were willing to socialize with nerd girls and did so often. They actually cultivated friendships with girls of like mind, tastes, and level of attractiveness. And so they got laid and got girlfriends all in their teen years.

That’s how most men are. They socialize enough to have these intimate experiences with the opposite sex.

So, these incel guys will have to learn to socialize and adapt as no one is entitled to anyone’s affections. And I say all that without saying that it’s not difficult to get past these mental blocks and self esteem issues or that no empathy should be given. Low self esteem is hard to deal with.

But it’s unwise to expect the world to change to accommodate a person’s emotional issue. That’s especially true when that emotional issue is surmountable. 

[Hulia]

This thread is so gorgeous. If I were a stand-up comedian I would use it immediatly after some editting and additions for my great performance.

[Emerald]

1 hour ago, Etherial Cat said:

@intotheblack

Indeed.

What I notice is that there is a heavy emotional baggage in each of these Incels. They suffer of an inner "dryness" due to the imbalance caused by their wish to hyper-masculinize themself. A lot of them believe they can do this by suppressing the Feminine aspects of their personality and by controlling its manifestation in the world.

It's quite interesting as well to notice how Incels are using logic and science in order to justify their anger. Anger is about one of the very few emotions that are perceived as acceptable in man as it is seen as masculine. So unlike what they pretend, the incel philosophy is not rational mapping of how the dating scene takes place, but an indirect manifestation of their anger. But what it is really is a cover up for sadness, because anger always covers up sadness, as a feeling of inhabilty.

I couldn't help but notice as well how Incels are brushing off that their misery is caused by an over-worship of masculinity and are always asking for more of it - as if they could anyway compete with ideals and standards of masculinity which are mostly attained to privilege at its peak.

For instance, being a "Chad" is a priviledge. And that's why incels love to loath on their absence of squarish jawline and cry about it.  By no way am I saying that it is important to have this jawline, but it's just to illustrate the contradiction. 

Being top of the food chain comes mostly out of having enough priviledge to pull you up there. So a lot of men resort to shadow masculinity, as such as in more aggression, more competivity to try "to make it".

And for that they need to make fun and/or demonize anyone who's pointing out at the insanity. Hence their dislike for "SJW". But what they do really is shooting themselves in the foot. 

What the Incels really need to do is heal their relationship with both the masculine and the feminine, because what they suffer for real from is not a lack of getting laid, but a lack of touch with the feminine in general.

A lack of touch with the feminine aspects of reality, of society, and as well as in their psychology. And that is totally up to them to resolve even starting now. There isn't even the need to go and approach girls. Of course, they also should do it, but priority n°1 is fixing their relationship with themself!

Shin, you're such a smooth harasser.

I support it! 

100%

[Hulia]

What I am thinking about, the governments could create an institution like a job office for unemployed, but a sex center, where all those not getting laid can register. Special trainings should be organized. And long-time not-getting-laid (>2 year) should become more support for facitating their came back into sex life. For example give a girl doing sex to a guy after 2 years of no sex a subsidy. Create an attraction mechanism! After 5 years without sex subside plastic surgery. Or create the groups of not getting-laid for self-help.

Oh I could think of so many tools to solve a problem! Why do we have such idiots in our governments who cannot organize the simpiest things?

[Harlen Kelly]

5 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

It's not as easy as just go talk to girl, though. It's also about the ability to nurture a healthy relationship with the Feminine, both inside and outside.

Incels, and men with blackpill/redpill ideologies are no catch, as they resent, mistrust and want to control the Feminine.

Whatever pick up technic is learnt doesn't change the fact that no healthy woman will want to date a man who hold such views and beliefs - unless she is equally broken.

When the inside piece is reintegrated, its much easier to meet girls and have fulfilling relationships. 

So incels have to work on both aspects.

You fundamentally misunderstand the process of learning attraction and becoming an attractive man. You cannot, for whatever reason, wrap your head around it. 

You also misunderstand or are in denial of what attracts women. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Harlen Kelly]

5 hours ago, intotheblack said:

Exactly.  Reparenting oneself along with socialising, with all types of people not only girls. This is a key thing people miss out on, forming friendships and deepening non - romantic relationships that they already have. 

This is even more important than just trying to pickup women. 

Start forming friendships/non-romantic relationships with real people without expectations, instead of bypassing that and going straight to talk to girls without any core human social skills.  This might work short term to get a quick lay, but there is no foundation there to actually create a bond.

Start seeing women as fellow humans, and not just as people who should be putting out. 
It’s this sense of entitlement around sex that needs to change. 

Incels think that women owe them sex but at the same time show hatred and disrespect towards them.  Why would a healthy human want to be around that type of person? 

I agree that expecting women to give you sex can be very toxic and damaging for these desperate men. But this is just survival at play

No different than the desire of the vast majority of women to have a monogamous relationship. 

Women don't owe men sex. Men don't owe women a monogamous relationship. 

@Emerald  How would you go about improving the sexual relationships between men and women at a societal level without compromising the liberties and dignity of either party given that an increasingly percentage of the population is unable to get sexual relationships? 

Do you see the increasingly percentage of people unable to socialize as an issue? How would you go about solving it collectively and consciously? 

If I am not mistaken, currently 1/3 of the male population in their 30s are virgins. That used to be around 10% in 2010. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Karmadhi]

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It ignores the reproductive difficulties and agenda of women

I am sure less incels out there would improve the agenda of women too. You can be social without being a pua selfish devil you know. I am sure you became a better man after learning about attraction and practicing and stuff.

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Anything to not talk to a girl.

How do you know we are not talking to girls? Just because a thread is made about this issue does not mean no action is being taken. That is like saying because you make a thread about the inequality of the wealth distribution of capitalism it means you are a broke person that does not work. Not necessarily. I explained on thread that i am taking action and writing here what i noticed while taking action. It is like starting to work on a corporation and writing about how unequal the salaries of the different positions are, you writing this does not mean you are not working and trying to improve your position. I never ever said you get freebies without talking to girls. If you do not talk to girls you get no girls, period. I was talking about education not girl communism.

I love how topics regarding politics and economy are all fair and good but when a topic regarding dating is brought up everyone automatically assumes that you cannot get girls and are looking for excuses. I do not see people comment on "economy and capitalism" topics that "you cannot get money and are looking for excuses". Seems a bit double standard to me.

Edited May 27, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Etherial Cat]

15 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

You fundamentally misunderstand the process of learning attraction and becoming an attractive man. You cannot, for whatever reason, wrap your head around it. 

Feel free to show me your arguments and tell me where I am wrong, then . 

It's way too easy to state such platitudes with a condescending tone, passing them as right. 

24 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

You also misunderstand or are in denial of what attracts women. 

What makes you an expert in women? Also explain me why you believe you know better than I do what makes women fall for a man.

 

[Karmadhi]

Guys the point is not to give people free sex as freebies. That already happens through prostitution, you can pay some money and get sex. The point is teaching people how to become better with the opposite sex. 

[Harlen Kelly]

@Etherial Cat Most women are in denial of what attracts them because they are unaware and sugarcoat the qualities in men that turns them on. That applies to you and most unaware women. It's in their best interest to be in denial about what attracts them for survival reasons. 

What makes me an expert with women? The same thing that makes an architect an expert in construction or a professor an expert in teaching: a large amount of experience with a significant amount of women. 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Jacob Morres]

 

9 hours ago, Harlen Kelly said:

He's not alluding to forcing women to have sex or something. That's quite a ridiculous strawman. He's seeing and pointing out to a MASSIVE societal issue, which is the unmet needs of a vast majority of men, and seeking to find healthy solutions. Not for himself, but on a societal scale.

This. I think people need to reread his initial Q

This is a massive issue societally for many men 

Men need help here 

Im not talking about creating unethical systems as a response to the issue. I mean more awareness, support and solutions 

Edited May 27, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Etherial Cat]

Just now, Harlen Kelly said:

@Etherial Cat Most women are in denial of what attracts them because they are unaware and sugarcoat the qualities in men that turns them on. That applies to you and most unaware women. It's in their best interest to be in denial about what attracts them. 

Don't you have any thoughts of your own or are you just interested in parroting my latest discussion with Leo?

First off, I am not an "unaware" woman. I've got knowledge about pick up far beside the average woman and 10 years of experience in self-development and spirituality. Also, I've had multiple relationships including a LTR that exceeds most of what people my age ever had.

So it's very difficult to write me off as unaware. But you can keep claiming that I am unaware if it please, especially if your aim is to discredit me by trying to stick on my head a large "must not be listened to" in bad faith.

I'm just going to point out that It comes off as practical to put the burden on me to explain why my perspective is legit.

I could also frame you as untrustworthy and let you explain me in the next 5 posts to come why your opinion is as worthy as mine. I'll spare you that bs.

6 minutes ago, Harlen Kelly said:

What makes me an expert with women? The same thing that makes an architect an expert in construction or a professor an expert in teaching: a large amount of experience with a significant amount of women. 

So what makes you more of an "expert in construction or a professor, an expert in teaching" as I am? I'm curious about hearing your arguments on why your experience is more valid than mine? You say that you've got a large amount of experience with a significant amount on women. Well, I do also have a significant amount of experience with men. And actually, I have probably more than you do, because we are the ones getting approached.

Not to mention that I've heard feedback from my gfs, male friends etc. And I've been reading this forum for almost 2 years... So I get well the paradigm here.

--

I hear a lot of men claiming that they are stud who "knows women". And the reason why I know that they do not master attraction is simply because... I do not react in the slightest to their energy. And often, it is the same as for the other women commenting. So it's a very good benchmark to know whether yes or no you're dealing with a stud.

When you face a stud "who knows women", even through the internet,  his energy comes off as attractive. It's a question of behavior and talent to address women. 

No amount of pick up trick can bypass the fundamental energetic incompatibility ?.Logic is not what creates attraction. And when a woman is astute and well trained like I am, I can also sense the compatibility and dive in him to know if he's got what I want.

 

[Harlen Kelly]

4 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

Don't you have any thoughts of your own or are you just interested in parroting my latest discussion with Leo?

1 - I joined the forum not too long ago, like a month ago. So, I don't understand what you are alluding to. 

2 - Discussing what attracts women with women is a complete waste of time and I will not be engaging in that discussion, simply because there is not benefit to it. Unless you are interested in attracting women, in that case it would be different. 

[Leo Gura]

How about this: every hot woman in the country gets put into a jury duty lottery system. When her number comes up, she gets a letter in the mail with a pic of the incel she must open her legs for. Included is the incel's victim story of why life sucks and why talking to girls doesn't work. Incels can go to the SS office to redeem their hottie vouchers. Every incel gets 2 free lays per year with a random hottie.

(Jking)

[Applegarden8]

2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

How about this: every hot woman in the country gets put into a jury duty lottery system. When her number comes up, she has to open her legs for an incel who has never left his mothers basement. Incels can go to the SS office to redeem their sex cards. Every incel gets 2 free lays per year with a hottie.

(Jking)

I will pass.

[Karmadhi]

@Leo Gura Now i understand how you feel like when people make ridiculous straw men out of the things you say that have nothing to do with what you actually meant or had in mind (rational wiki etc). 

Thank you for putting me on your shoes and feeling what you probably feel often when people completely misunderstand what you say.

[Leo Gura]

@Karmadhi I understand what you say, but I can't help making the joke.

You want something akin to a systemic reform of how society/culture handles dating education/sex. That is not inherently a bad idea.

I make fun of it because it's so unrealistic it won't happen in our lifetime. We will get socialism sooner than that.

RSD was basically driven to closure thanks to cancel culture. You really gotta read the room. This stuff is a political nightmare that nobody dares touch.