Phyllis Wagner

Bashar On Psychedelics

219 posts in this topic

The problem with the DMT released at death idea is that your brain is releasing so many other chemicals that are already proven which are more than enough to produce NDEs and anything else you might experience. Everybody has this fixation on DMT or 5-MeO causing these states naturally, but other molecules have this potential as well. 


Maybe we should shove the culmination of multi-millennia old insight up our asses instead. 

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We don't know shit actually, but the most interesting thing to me is just the natural capability of the brain to induce an NDE experience with whatever chemical it releases at the event of death.

Hacking the brain to unlock the ability to induce it at will would be very interesting subject to study.

Edited by m0hsen

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16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Good luck recreating a breakthrough DMT trip at will. Not gonna happen. Your will is not that strong.

It's possible to get into states (post breakthrough from a past DMT experience usually) that have all the benefits/take aways of a DMT breakthrough experience but aren't as intense or have the same appearances / " highs" / OBE / light show (shamans call it that for the gringos) of a DMT breakthrough. Just seems like state chasing if you think constantly tripping super hard (basically leaving behind your reference point entirely for a bit) is what is growing a person. You can get the majority, possibly even all the benefits from psychedelics after having a massive breakthrough without having to take a psychedelic if you are willing to allow for that breakthrough experience to come back in again while sober. It's possible for sure. I've confirmed this for myself through direct experience. 

Edited by Lyubov

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54 minutes ago, Lyubov said:

Just seems like state chasing if you think constantly tripping super hard (basically leaving behind your reference point entirely for a bit) is what is growing a person.

I made no such point.

One's growth is irrelevant when the topic at hand is the state of consciousness acheivable via DMT. The state is the state. Whether you benefit from it or not is irrelevant. How long it lasts is irrelevant. You cannot acheive that state "naturally". You can acheive higher states naturally, but not that high. Not even close.

People who say they can have simply never had a serious DMT breakthrough. They don't know what they are talking about and they have no idea what consciousness is capable of on a vaped DMT peak. It is nothing a human can imagine or will into being. It would be easier to grow your dick by 6 inches than to will yourself into a DMT peak.

No yogi, nor meditator, nor enlightened person is able to do that. No technique will get you there.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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17 hours ago, Phyllis Wagner said:

@Leo Gura So let me get this straight. What you are saying is this inter-dimensional enlightened alien doesn't know shit? Alright, got it.  

Please stop lol.


The Art of Knowing is Knowing the accumulation of knowledge lies within time, the discovery of Wisdom is attained out of the Mind.

~ https://www.instagram.com/spiritualabsolute ~

 

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Can we please all put some money together and book a private session with Bashar and have Leo debate him? That would be the most hilarious surreal thing ever.

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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

No yogi, nor meditator, nor enlightened person is able to do that.

An advanced yogi is not a human anymore.

Edited by m0hsen

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6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

It would be easier to grow your dick by 6 inches

Challenge accepted *groaning noises*


Dont look at me! Look inside!

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13 hours ago, m0hsen said:

@m0hsen The studies about which these articles write simply show that

a) DMT occurs in rat brains

b)  the DMT levels in the brain increase after cardiac arrest in rats

 

There are studies which show that the effects of DMT are similar to a near death experience, but there's no evidence that DMT actually has anything to do with it.

Correlation ≠ Causation

As BipolarGrowth said 

9 hours ago, BipolarGrowth said:

The problem with the DMT released at death idea is that your brain is releasing so many other chemicals that are already proven which are more than enough to produce NDEs and anything else you might experience. Everybody has this fixation on DMT or 5-MeO causing these states naturally, but other molecules have this potential as well. 

there are many, many other factors besides DMT or 5-MeO. Many of which are not even neurochemical in their nature, but psychological on an individual level. Not to mention context factors.

 

https://www.frontiersin.org/articles/10.3389/fpsyg.2018.01424/full

Here you go. This is as comprehensive as you could wish for. 

 

Be careful what claims you make, especially when you enter such complex scientific domains like neurophysiology/-psychology.

"Explanations" like "discipline" or "an advanced yogi is not a human anymore" just don't cut it, so be careful not to delude yourself with these pseudo-scientific approaches when what you're talking about is mostly a problem of science. 

I bet Bashar doesn't know much about these things either. You can't recreate such experiences with your sheer will. Leo's right, it would be easier to grow your schlong than to manipulate you brain chemistry into a full blown psychedelic experience. We're human. Maybe we'll reincarnate as some actual alien who can do this. But until that happens, we're limited in certain domains.

Of course, if you'd provide actual evidence, I'd be more than glad to change my mind. 

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44 minutes ago, Tim R said:

"Explanations" like "discipline" or "an advanced yogi is not a human anymore" just don't cut it, so be careful not to delude yourself with these pseudo-scientific approaches

Kriya Yoga is a science. and yes it's very true an advanced yogi is not a human being anymore.

again please go do research and study for yourself, and then comeback and let me know if you still disagree with me about the evolution of these beings which they literally become a very fucking advanced being. they can do stuff beyond your imaginations. changing the brain's neurochemistry at will is literally nothing for such advanced beings. Yogananda could do it simply just by looking into your eyes.

there's lots of lots of books and articles about it. just to get started this is how you evolve by the scientific approaches of Kriya Yoga:

Quote

How Kriya Yoga Works Now I'll give you a little table. It just will take a minute or two, about how Kriya works. As I have told you, it takes about a half a minute to do one Kriya. If you do the three parts of Kriya Yoga, which I am not at liberty to tell you what they are – but you can, you can have those things, if you really want them. It takes to do the three parts, it takes five minutes, about. And in that five minutes, you attain 12 years of evolution. Think of it. Twelve years of evolution. Imagine, 12 years ago, from then until now, you attain in five minutes by the practice of Kriya Yoga. Now by simply multiplying those things, which I have written down here, if you practice an hour a day, an hour a day doing Kriya Yoga, that's not much; half an hour in the morning, half an hour at night. What do you get — 144 years of evolution. Now you're getting interested, which you should. Now listen a little more. If you do that, one hour a day for one year – and how much time goes by, and we never realize the year's gone by – what do you get? Over 50,000 year's evolution. Now these are facts. But I must add you have to do the Kriya correctly. You cannot be doing it, and thinking about a million things all around. It won't work. But if you do it, really wanting the Presence of God, and to please Him, it will work. And in that year, that year, giving an hour a day, that's all, through the practice of Kriya Yoga, you'll attain 50,000 years evolution. Now let's carry it on. If for 20 years, in one hour a day, 20 years, one hour a day, one million years evolution. Think of it. This ego, which gives us so much trouble, causes us so much trouble; by giving an hour a day, for not the whole of our lives even, but for 20 years. You can be free from this tyrant, ego consciousness, and your Soul Consciousness will have very little difficulty in merging in the Presence of God. That's what Kriya Yoga will do.

-- Read more: http://yogananda.com.au/drlewis/drlewis-Kriya2.html

I'd recommend the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda

and there's also a movie about Yogananda's life which I highly recommend to watch

Leo posted about it some fucking years ago it was one of his very first posts :D

1 hour ago, Tim R said:

We're human. Maybe we'll reincarnate as some actual alien who can do this

Maybe we are "human", but we have the science in our hands to evolve dramatically, unimaginably.

 

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@m0hsen I will look into it, the book is on my book list anyway. 

This whole schtick around Siddhis and reaching superhuman abilities of any kind strikes me as overly mystified, exaggerated and mostly untrue. People just love this stuff, because people love magic. And in order to love it even more, they will pretend that it's true. Which is perfectly understandable.

There's a great deal of excessive guru-worshiping and (subsequent) delusion going on in many yogic traditions, I have personal experience with this sort of thing, I've seen it. So I'm not at all impressed by things like 

23 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

Yogananda could do it simply just by looking into your eyes.

It's because people want magic to be true, people want their gurus to be like Gods, so when Yogananda looked someone in the eyes and their heart started pounding like mad and they felt a tingling all over their body, they will think it's his magic powers and alas, they will start spreading their deluded fantasies about him. It's the exact same priciple like with fundamentalist Christians who delude themselves about having encountered the Holy Spirit when they had a fever for 3 days in a row.

Again, I'm 100% sure that people can reach incredibly far out and high states of consciousness by all kinds of techniques, like Tummo or some secret Kriyas which are only known and taught by some 110 years old yogi who has spent the last 85 years doing Yoga in a cave in northern India.  

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@Tim R it’s important to consider science when approaching this stuff, but I’ve experienced some things firsthand that are more against the current scientific paradigm than altering your state of consciousness (even to DMT levels) endogenously. The issue is these events did not take place due to my human will. I’m quite doubtful that anyone is willing themselves into a natural DMT state. 
 

When other beings (spiritual/extraterrestrial) are involved and interfering with your state of consciousness or even physical reality, shit can get pretty out of the norm though. I’ve had an intense psychedelic-level experience while completely sober, but it was not my doing. 
 

The truth is that far crazier shit than endogenously generating a trip happens all the time. It just usually isn’t the human will that’s behind such events. 


Maybe we should shove the culmination of multi-millennia old insight up our asses instead. 

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4 minutes ago, Tim R said:

@m0hsen I will look into it, the book is on my book list anyway. 

Awesome! ?

9 minutes ago, Tim R said:

It's because people want magic to be true, people want their gurus to be like Gods

Or maybe "magic" is actually true and is a science of it's own, maybe we can actually evolve our consciousness with the science of Yoga to reach some God-consciousness level.


I don't see any "limitations" in the evolution of consciousness. because my whole materialistic paradigm shattered a long time ago with my experiences with Kriya Yoga.

25 minutes ago, Tim R said:

This whole schtick around Siddhis and reaching superhuman abilities of any kind strikes me as overly mystified, exaggerated and mostly untrue

this is because you are still highly stuck in your materialistic paradigm of your mind. 

I strongly feel like I'm having a conversation with a materialist, scientific-minded person! ?

 

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11 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I made no such point.

One's growth is irrelevant when the topic at hand is the state of consciousness acheivable via DMT. The state is the state. Whether you benefit from it or not is irrelevant. How long it lasts is irrelevant. You cannot acheive that state "naturally". You can acheive higher states naturally, but not that high. Not even close.

People who say they can have simply never had a serious DMT breakthrough. They don't know what they are talking about and they have no idea what consciousness is capable of on a vaped DMT peak. It is nothing a human can imagine or will into being. It would be easier to grow your dick by 6 inches than to will yourself into a DMT peak.

No yogi, nor meditator, nor enlightened person is able to do that. No technique will get you there.

Gotta agree with this lol ???


Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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2 hours ago, m0hsen said:

Kriya Yoga is a science. and yes it's very true an advanced yogi is not a human being anymore.

again please go do research and study for yourself, and then comeback and let me know if you still disagree with me about the evolution of these beings which they literally become a very fucking advanced being. they can do stuff beyond your imaginations. changing the brain's neurochemistry at will is literally nothing for such advanced beings. Yogananda could do it simply just by looking into your eyes.

there's lots of lots of books and articles about it. just to get started this is how you evolve by the scientific approaches of Kriya Yoga:

I'd recommend the book "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramahansa Yogananda

and there's also a movie about Yogananda's life which I highly recommend to watch

Leo posted about it some fucking years ago it was one of his very first posts :D

Maybe we are "human", but we have the science in our hands to evolve dramatically, unimaginably.

 

Of course a yogi is still, somewhat at least, of a human. He still has to eat, shit and breathe like the rest of us, right?,?

But besides that I suppose somw extremely gifted individuals could do superhuman things like tripping on DMT at will. 1/1 billion tho. Easier to just smoke it?

Edited by WaveInTheOcean

Can you bite your own teeth?  --  “What a caterpillar calls the end of the world we call a butterfly.

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1 hour ago, Tim R said:

@m0hsen I will look into it, the book is on my book list anyway. 

This whole schtick around Siddhis and reaching superhuman abilities of any kind strikes me as overly mystified, exaggerated and mostly untrue. People just love this stuff, because people love magic. And in order to love it even more, they will pretend that it's true. Which is perfectly understandable.

There's a great deal of excessive guru-worshiping and (subsequent) delusion going on in many yogic traditions, I have personal experience with this sort of thing, I've seen it. So I'm not at all impressed by things like 

It's because people want magic to be true, people want their gurus to be like Gods, so when Yogananda looked someone in the eyes and their heart started pounding like mad and they felt a tingling all over their body, they will think it's his magic powers and alas, they will start spreading their deluded fantasies about him. It's the exact same priciple like with fundamentalist Christians who delude themselves about having encountered the Holy Spirit when they had a fever for 3 days in a row.

Again, I'm 100% sure that people can reach incredibly far out and high states of consciousness by all kinds of techniques, like Tummo or some secret Kriyas which are only known and taught by some 110 years old yogi who has spent the last 85 years doing Yoga in a cave in northern India.  

@Tim R

open yourself up to the possibility, I have experienced Shiddhis along my journey and I'm just an ordinary westerner. Also had dmt type trips naturally trough meditation, one time in particular which was very intense and where the whole world was literally melting for about an hour after the experience if I opened my eyes. However I wouldn't say I went as far as a full on breakthrough but it was pretty darn similar. You would be just shocked at what is possible. 

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Think of it like this: anyone can go to the gym and put on muscle. Everyone's body can naturally create testosterone -- even women! But you will never naturally achieve this look:

ronnie01.jpg

Your body cannot produce that much natural testosterone. And to tell newbies that it can is utterly irresponsible and misleading.

No gym technique will give you that look. The only way to get that look is to inject testosterone.

If you insist on going "all natural" -- fine. But you will not be as conscious as one who takes psychedelics. Not even close.

You are like a woman thinking you can be Ronnie Coleman while drinking your soy as long as you hit the gym hard enough. No!

Shinzen Young did 40 years of professional meditation. I can be more conscious than him in 15 minutes. That is the reality of how this works. You can make all the rationalizations you want, but the brute reality remains.


You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity.

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9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

f you insist on going "all natural" -- fine. But you will not be as conscious as one who takes psychedelics. Not even close.

If you consider, natural body builder vs steroid body builder is, steroid body builder shows to much muscle however internal organs are completely terrible, enlarged and unhealthy. Many body builder who use steroids, if they stop using them, within 2 months the appearance of the body will be worst than who is doing lifting naturally. Such as you, showing like you know so much, taking so much psychedelics which make you hold on to so many dogmas, beliefs, thoughts, misleading vs vs. meanwhile enlightenment has nothing to do with knowledge, experience or beliefs. 


"It is impossible for a man to learn what he thinks he already knows."

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Love Bashar, great compilation. 

No one state is desirable 100% of the time. I think sometimes we overlook this, that we don't actually want one state, but we want the fluidity of them.

State means your standing, and comes from the word root or idea, stand. Like the word exist, meaning "stand out". Like the Queen song, "Who Wants to Live Forever" xD

What is the background of which it's possible to experience states or the background of which it's possible for things to exist or stand out. If you go direct to that, all states are accessible or no longer states anymore. 

I think sometimes some beliefs of ladders and striving get carried over from the personal development realm to color over the wonder that what we're now wanting to explore is pure Accessibility, Itself.

 


My Youtube Channel- Light on Earth “We dance round in a ring and suppose, but the Secret sits in the middle and knows.”― Robert Frost

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A natural internal DMT boost would be like snorkeling and a substance DMT boost would be like scuba diving.

One can explore some amazing places while snorkeling, yet it isn't the same as deep ocean scuba diving. The human body cannot reach those depths without an oxygen tank. 

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