Prof. Dave "debunks" quantum mysticism

[Ellenier]

He usually makes good videos on science topics, but now he uploaded this:

At about 40 mins in he talks about Leo (and also features Deepak Chopra and other ppl I don't know as well in his video). The first part about Deepak Chopra and some guy named "Spirit Science" on YT i actually found to be quite funny, but then as he goes on he tries to depict Leo as a cult leader and sociopath who's manipulating his viewers i. a. to kill themselves. Basically he takes parts of random actualized.org videos completely out of context in order to establish the narrative of a cult leader. You can clearly see that he has no clue about what Leo is talking about and that he's just projecting his own assumptions/concepts onto him. For example he says stuff like "quantum mechanics is the well he draws his lies from" which makes absolutely no sense or that Leo tries to convey to the viewers that his perspective is the absolute truth while other peoples perspectives are flawed (he calls it gaslighting while not even understanding what is meant by absolute truth). He also basically says that Leo is contradicting himself by saying he is god and that you are god too  or by being omniscient and yet being surprised by his doorbell ringing in one of the live awakening vids. W/e, watch the part for yourself. I guess that's how materialists interprete this stuff and nonduality.

Im actually a bit spooked b/c prof. Dave usually explains stuff like really good and he also does a great job at roasting flatearthers, but depicting actualized.org as a cult and so massively misinterpreting this stuff is pretty ooga booga and probably even dangerous (and shows that he doesn't even have a clue what he's talking about or that he's very closed-minded at the very least).

[Rilles]

Sigh, these Stage Orange rationalist takes are getting predictable...

[Carl-Richard]

1 minute ago, Ellenier said:

roasting flatearthers

Don't bother wasting your time with YouTube debunk heroes. It's all just bunk.

[Ellenier]

5 hours ago, Rilles said:

Sigh, these Stage Orange rationalist takes are getting predictable...

 Yeah, reminds me of Leo's entry in the rationalwiki

5 hours ago, Carl-Richard said:

Don't bother wasting your time with YouTube debunk heroes. It's all just bunk.

True, I just stumbled upon one of those a while ago and found it to be quite entertaining.

[aurum]

@Ellenier

Materialists gonna materialist.

There's a million of these guys. There's critiques of Leo that can be made, but there's nothing unique or insightful about his debunking that I saw.

[WaveInTheOcean]

even though his criticism of Leo is very taken-out-of-context and largely false, he has some points, and it's healthy to listen to some criticism some times=)

[_Archangel_]

this is pure defamation @Leo Gura!
I know your position on debates but i think it's cases like this that IMHO it's worth being more open to dialogue,
expecially when the guy spreading misinformation has over 1M subs.

I also understand your point that a debate doesn't get you to truth but still has it's positive sides:
1) It's a showcase: You can gain new followers, possibly becoming serious seekers (less need of ad promotion maybe?)
2) an hour of discussion doesn't change the interlocutor's mind but it is enough to plant in him the seed of doubt
3) You would have the chance give to CLEAR idea of what spirituality is to an extremely confused materialist audience
3) It would be fun to see egos climbing on mirrors

[Blackhawk]

Jesus Christ, if you are going to attack Leo and actualized.org then at least try to do it based on something which is true. People are so stupid.

[AtheisticNonduality]

Neckbeard internet science teachers are getting too cocky.

[AtheisticNonduality]

1 hour ago, _Archangel_ said:

this is pure defamation @Leo Gura!
I know your position on debates but i think it's cases like this that IMHO it's worth being more open to dialogue,
expecially when the guy spreading misinformation has over 1M subs.

I also understand your point that a debate doesn't get you to truth but still has it's positive sides:
1) It's a showcase: You can gain new followers, possibly becoming serious seekers (less need of ad promotion maybe?)
2) an hour of discussion doesn't change the interlocutor's mind but it is enough to plant in him the seed of doubt
3) You would have the chance give to CLEAR idea of what spirituality is to an extremely confused materialist audience
3) It would be fun to see egos climbing on mirrors

Yes, this obvious. For someone as cognitively contemplative as Leo, this should be very very obvious. But I suspect he is nervous about being a bad debater. Despite all the pickup stuff, he still has traces of social awkwardness, like in his Martin Ball video where he speaks a lot less eloquently than usual.

When it comes to "Professor" Dave (is he a real professor?), you can be good at balancing equations and teaching physics concepts while still having a garbage unintelligent view of reality, ie. the idea that anything exists outside of Consciousness. His consciousness is low, otherwise he'd see the lack of boundary between nothingness and Malkhut.

And if Leo was a cult leader (he can't be here because most Actualized.org followers very high critical thinking skills), he would have a harem or a Waco compound set up by now.

And Leo has never advocated suicide. That's just moronic.

[Lyubov]

Leo has been uncouth before and let his spiritual ego run wild sometimes to the point of embarrassing himself a bit but this is just typical orange materialist stuff where the guy is locked so hard in his paradigm that if he has an awakening he's going to look back at what an utter fool he was. at least adepeus psychadelic whatever guy made some valid points about how these experiences need a lot of integration and advocating for safe usage of them in his criticism of Leo. 

Edited March 21, 2021 by Lyubov

[AtheisticNonduality]

And Leo should disown the quantum mysticism thing. There is no reason to think quantum mechanics implies idealism since there are physical explanations for the observer effect. And definitely don't go down the Deepak route of using it as a metaphor for everything.

[undeather]

2 things

1) Yes, there definitely is a huge amount of blindfolded rationality in the stage orange paradigm, 

2) Most spiritual communities suffer from the same issues, just on a different plane. I have seen members on this forum, self proclaimed stage yellow or above, arguing for flath earth and other dipshit conspiracies. If you cant even make sense of the simplest stuff, dont even try to go deeper- you are not ready. It seems like, that in this community, there is some kind of jungian shadow response when it comes to "rationality" - an allergic reaction to anything scientific. Being trans-rational, which means going beyond, doesnt have anything to do with being naive. Real second tier includes the ability the be hyperrational and materialistic on purpose - because sometimes, thats exactly what you want and need. 

Now to the quantum mysticism: Show some humility, unless you did the work. We know that some  fathers of quantum mechanics showed mystical tendencies when asked about the interpretations of their findings. We also know that most phycisists today dont share this at all. The field evolved and we now know much more about quantum mechanics than we did in the times of Bohr, Heisenberg or Schrödinger. I am not saying that either interpretation is right or wrong - I dont know - and you (propably) dont know it either. If you are really honest, you propably dont know shit about QM besides some quasi explanation of the double-slit experiment or the collapse of the wave funciton. You dont understand the schrödinger equation or the copenhagen interpretation. Your ego might think you do, but you dont. 

So either you do the work and come up with an informed critique of the topic, or just let it be and focus on your stuff.

 

[Ellenier]

15 hours ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

even though his criticism of Leo is very taken-out-of-context and largely false, he has some points, and it's healthy to listen to some criticism some times=)

14 hours ago, _Archangel_ said:

this is pure defamation @Leo Gura!
I know your position on debates but i think it's cases like this that IMHO it's worth being more open to dialogue,
expecially when the guy spreading misinformation has over 1M subs.

I also understand your point that a debate doesn't get you to truth but still has it's positive sides:
1) It's a showcase: You can gain new followers, possibly becoming serious seekers (less need of ad promotion maybe?)
2) an hour of discussion doesn't change the interlocutor's mind but it is enough to plant in him the seed of doubt
3) You would have the chance give to CLEAR idea of what spirituality is to an extremely confused materialist audience
3) It would be fun to see egos climbing on mirrors

Yeah, I think it's quite fascinating how he can actually have some (relatively) valid and rational criticique primarily regarding the other guys while at the same time just defending his emotional attachment to his materialistic POV. You can literally see how he's not neutraly analyzing there and just emotionally bashing any other perspective than materialism  - he doesn't even try to understand what's said. 

But I don't think a discussion would do anything there. He's literally projecting that Leo wants his viewers to kill themselves, that's too far gone to even argue with, I guess. 

12 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

is he a real professor?

No.

12 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

ie. the idea that anything exists outside of Consciousness.

That's exactly what he says. Something like the brain is creating consciousness. When I watched that it hurt A LOT. Found it again ???: 

5 hours ago, undeather said:

So either you do the work and come up with an informed critique of the topic, or just let it be and focus on your stuff.

 Exactly. There's actually not even a need for Dave to bash anything, since nobody is trying to convince him of anything. It's literally just ego bs, creating an emotionally loaded story to reinforce his own "true" perspective.

And yeah, afaik there are some materialistic explanations of QM, but Leo doesn't even use QM in order to justify mysticism. Okay, the title "QM debunks materialism" is a bit click-baity but I just saw it as another pointer towards nonduality. 

[_Archangel_]

13 hours ago, AtheisticNonduality said:

But I suspect he is nervous about being a bad debater

Nha, i think he view debates as a  just as a waste of time when they can be an opportunity to grow his project

 

34 minutes ago, Ellenier said:

But I don't think a discussion would do anything there.

I think it's different when who you "criticezed" is actually in front of you and can call your BS straight away

[Rilles]

39 minutes ago, Ellenier said:

That's exactly what he says. Something like the brain is creating consciousness. When I watched that it hurt A LOT. Found it again ???: 

The problem with these kinds of videos is that they assume that poking the brain changes conscioussness but its not, its changing perception, which is very different. Consciousness is that which experiences the changing of the perception!

Also, its so conceptual and jargony, consciousness is right here!! Experience it directly!! Stop thinking about it!! Haha!

"...words are very unneccessary, they can only do harm..."

[freejoy]

I watched it a little until he said the mind can't heal.

What about the placebo effect?

It's a waste of time to listen to. 

[freejoy]

Plus he's picking out bigger names to "debunk" in his yt title to target a larger audience for more viewership.

 

Edited March 21, 2021 by freejoy

[Space]

@Ellenier Only genuine compassion and empathy for Prof. Dave. God bless him in his suffering.

[Enlightenment]

I didn't watch yet but I guess this guy as a physicalist believes in the many-worlds interpretation of QM, right? If so then in one of these infinite amounts of worlds he is a new age woo guy and Leo is a physicalist who is "debunking" his views. Or my understanding of many-worlds interpretation is wrong