Elshaddai

Is it truly wise and good to bring children into existence?

47 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Life is like 5% suffering, max. The rest 95% you're free to make it however you want.

If that's the case for you, great, but it's not the case for everyone.


“There are two different types of people in the world, those who want to know, and those who want to believe.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
14 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

If that's the case for you, great, but it's not the case for everyone.

It's the case for 95% of humans. The remaining 5% may be suffering more, I'll give you that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
32 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

It's the case for 95% of humans. The remaining 5% may be suffering more, I'll give you that.

No it's not the case for 95% of humans. But let's agree to disagree.


“There are two different types of people in the world, those who want to know, and those who want to believe.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Blackhawk What do you mean by suffering? Most people have decent health and live decent lives for most of their lives. If someone is suffering more than they're supposed to, it's most likely that they're suffering from delusions, in which case enlightenment exists to free them from that suffering. Don't draw false conclusions from a few examples.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
13 hours ago, No Self said:

Wait, you're using commonsense? Get outta here!

But that's exactly what I said - IMO - Only reproduce if you have the finances, intelligence and overall circumstances to provide for your children.

EDIT: Even tho, I know a narcissistic couple who just popped 2 daughters into existance, even tho they have the money it will be a psychological hell for their kids. I imagine growing up with just one parent with NPD, but with 2.. it's just pure hell.

Edited by meow_meow

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
5 hours ago, meow_meow said:

But that's exactly what I said - IMO - Only reproduce if you have the finances, intelligence and overall circumstances to provide for your children.

EDIT: Even tho, I know a narcissistic couple who just popped 2 daughters into existance, even tho they have the money it will be a psychological hell for their kids. I imagine growing up with just one parent with NPD, but with 2.. it's just pure hell.

Sadly, due to Dunning-Kruger, the end result is that the most incompetent and narcissistic people will gleefully pump out new life, while the more thoughtful will abstain. It takes intelligence to recognise a lack of intelligence.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it may be true what you say but you can never know what the human your gonna bring into this life will be like, maybe he/she will have a wonderful life full of success and ups and downs, it'll be hell of a ride

we will die someday and the pain of life will end as well but all the stuff in between, you can't deny anyone from it

if you have a nice life and can take care of a baby properly, it'll be fun to have one and the baby will have fun too 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

@Elshaddai the interesting thing about Anti-Natalism is that it's almost impossible to argue against. Just by looking at very basic arguments on the wikipedia page you can see why.

Look at Anti-Natalism, it's very tricky to argue against (as a Natalist for example) if you're willing to be honest beyond cultural conditioning and concede that they have a point. It's similar to how it's very difficult to argue against a vegetarian. 

That utilitarian analysis of benefit vs suffering, its very streamlined. Perhaps it looks that way from axiomatic systems of perception that are invisible to my recognition, but are nonetheless there as a part of me, or they are at least present for formulating things in a convincing way. 

Edited by lmfao

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

5:00-6:10 Makes good sense. 

People should heal from their childhood trauma and toxic shame before bringing someone into a shame based world. Passing on trauma from generation to generation. 

 

 

Edited by Ethan1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’ve found family, having kids, to be the single most fulling aspect of experience possible. Much more so than enlightenment, which is who I am either way. An inexplicably mystical groundhogs day of love, joy, laughter, learning, self discovery and togetherness. Bliss. Nowhere I can turn, nowhere I can go, which is not radiant visceral love. Infinite L🤍🤍P. 

“I mean what's the point of it all right?”.

Nothing like a kid to make you realize how full of shit you are. 😍

Inspect those who avoid and can not tolerate such interaction. Contemplate this, child. 


My Website: ActualityOfBeing.com Meditations, helpful tools, and private online sessions for spiritual guidance, awakening, and creating the life you dream of. 

My Youtube Channel: Actuality Of Being Insights, exercises & guidance into the actuality of being and creating your own reality. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't think so. At least I don't plan to have children. When you get right down to it life pretty much sucks. Who am I to make someone else have to go through it? For that matter what gave my parents the right to decide that for me. I have been told there is an old catch phrase "life sucks then you die." It is pretty much on the mark.

Edited by Jake Johnson

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I forgot this quote. I love this quote too:

 

"Life is a sexually transmitted disease and the mortality rate is one hundred percent."
- R.D. Laing


“There are two different types of people in the world, those who want to know, and those who want to believe.”
- Friedrich Nietzsche

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
21 hours ago, Jake Johnson said:

I don't think so. At least I don't plan to have children. When you get right down to it life pretty much sucks. Who am I to make someone else have to go through it? For that matter what gave my parents the right to decide that for me. I have been told there is an old catch phrase "life sucks then you die." It is pretty much on the mark.

How do you know that they would make that same conclusion? This is not a one-way street.


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
12 minutes ago, Jake Johnson said:

Whatever they wouldn't decide their existance for themselves.

If they had the chance to decide, how do you know what they would choose?


To balance beauty and complexity so perfectly is a divine mystery.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's Russian roulette. Even if you can "guarantee" financial, educational, and a generally healthy environment for the next 25 years, you still can't be sure this kid won't suffer tremendously. And who is to blame if it does? You, you should take 100% responsibility for that. I have worked with disabled kids, and many of these don't enjoy life. Born without skin, born without the ability to think straight, born blind, born awkward. I'm just in my twenties and know too many people who seemingly had great lives but ended their lives due to financial crisis, mental illness, physical pain, and drugs.

I find it ridiculous how many people, even in here, can't think about it like this. Of course, they can have wonderful lives, but it can be really fucking bad as well. And unless you know what a sufficient amount of bad is, you'll remain ignorant. No matter how wise any of these comments seem, they can't experience the child's reality directly.


"Every culture that's ever existed has operated under the illusion that it understood 95% of reality and that the other 5% would be delivered in the next 18 months, and from Egypt forward they've been running around believing they had a perfect grip on things and yet we look back at every society that preceded us with great smugness at how naive they all were. Well, it never occurs to us, then, that maybe we're whistling in the dark too!" -- Terence McKenna

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It's absolutely beautiful to have children :)  I'm only 20 so I dont plan on having any soon. 

But imagine every day seeing this piece of consciousness growing bigger and bigger, smarter and smarter. And passing on your knowledge to it. 

Must be great. 


" ..." 

-The Buddha

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!


Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.


Sign In Now