Jordan A

Being "Too Nice" in Dating

64 posts in this topic

Im a 29 year old guy. I think that the way I act is too nice and women are not attracted to it. But I don't want to flirt in a way that is negative and manipulative, but it seems like that is what attracts women. I think the answer is to focus on my vision, and adopt more of a masculine stage green/yellow attitude (even if I am not yet at stage yellow) and be myself and focus on my music and vision and things will work out. I am aware that calling myself kind is likely to be an illusion to some degree, but I still think that I am naturally kind, and I can use it as a strength, but it's hard. I feel that I have developed a shadow out of stage red...  and I still have a lot of uneasiness about natural dominance and more foundational/primitive levels of sexuality. I think this anxiety makes it hard for me to concentrate and adds to my distraction,  as well as issues in my dating life. I don't think I am naive, and I am able to flirt and have confidence, but it's hard for me to be dominant, authentic, and kind. I guess it just takes more practice... I think part of the problem is that I have been judgmental towards guys that act like assholes, without adopting the healthy aspects of and leaving the unhealthy aspects of stage orange sexuality. Does anyone have any advice for these types of feelings?  I am practicing dropping my old ideologies and realizing that kindness with expectations isn't really kindness, and I understand that women are attracted to dominant men and that is natural, but do you feel that if I focus on my future and become more competitive in business that things will work out, or is that just putting a band aid on an issue without addressing it? Do you think I need to work on being more dominant and assertive, or accept myself how I am, or both?

 

I know it's kind of a lot, but just threw some half baked ideas out there. Im sure Im not the only one with this issue. I will be thoughtful of your answer while still thinking about it for myself.

Edited by Jordan A

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29 minutes ago, Jordan A said:

Do you think I need to work on being more dominant and assertive, or accept myself how I am, or both?

If being assertive is part of your shadow, then learning to accept yourself would include learning to be assertive.

Most of the time when guys complain about being "too nice" and that it "doesn't work", what is really happening is that they're just unconscious of how manipulative they are and how much remains in their shadow. You've acknowledged that you have some of this going on, so I'd start with some shadow questions.

What's the scariest part about being assertive?

What bad thing will happen if you're dominant?

What's the worst part about being an asshole?

Remember that owning our shadow does not mean we become it. If I have a shadow about being a racist, healing that would not involve me becoming a racist. And so the end goal here is not to turn you into some Stage Red warlord. Our shadow manifests in unhealthy ways because it's unconscious and repressed.

Bring it into the light of conscious and it will transform into it's highest form.


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I agree with @aurum. A lot of the resistance to integrating the shadow has to do with feeling your own judgements. It helps to become aware of this if you choose to approach this through shadow work.

Bring your focus back within you, you're focussed too much on how the women respond to you and are giving away too much power. Women are attracted to self-confidence.

You're thinking too much. Get back in your body.

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You say you may have a red shadow and are uneasy about being dominant. If you have that side in you, let it rip. If you mean you judge that aspect in others but don't posses it yourself, look for it in yourself -- most hetero guys have it somewhere; at least a little bit. (not the negative traits and red shadow -- the dominant impulse)

2 hours ago, Jordan A said:

how do women handle being attracted to dominant guys that don't really care about them?

Besides being confident and powerful-seeming, these dominant guys probably just subconsciously appear to women as more authentic, in a way. Since these women may assume that even if these nice guys want women in a deeper way, they only want the deeper aspects of a woman provided they also get sex... And you know what? They're actually right -- I mean... pretty much every hetero guy would totally be put out by a relationship with a woman who never had sex with him.

If you simply can't muster up dominant sensibilities because it just feels SO wrong, then give it a rest. Not every woman wants a super dominant male. Just love and be comfortable with yourself.

Kind but assertive, caring but unaffected, loving but blunt, witty but unknowing, knowledgeable but humble (etc; don't take anything too seriously). Above all, be self-loving, unserious, and fun/playful. There's work, and there's play -- dating is ALL play.

It might be hard to hear, but when you're so okay with yourself that you don't even need a woman, it will be quite a bit easier to attract a woman.

Edited by The0Self

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hmm, its funny, I was thinking about deleting this comment but your responses are quite helpful and I'm not even British. I appreciate that. 

2 hours ago, aurum said:

@The0Self

What's the scariest part about being assertive?

- that you are rocking the boat and upsetting people. but that's dumb be scared of that

What bad thing will happen if you're dominant?

What's the worst part about being an asshole?

- you may hurt someones feelings

2 hours ago, JohnD said:

@JohnD

You're thinking too much. Get back in your body.

definitely

@The0Self yeah that makes sense, its perhaps the feeling that I'm not being authentic....

 

I think I have some stage blue hang ups still that someone out there is judging me or watching how I behave, and I don't want to have bad karma of some kind,  but at the same time, I do authentically feel that I just don't want to hurt people's feelings. Perhaps I pull between different levels of morality... (maybe I have aspects stage blue and stage green morality) 

 

I think the fact that last year I moved out of my parents house and all that helped too lol.

Edited by Jordan A

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@Jordan A You can be a strong leader and don't put women on a pedestal without actually treating them bad or disrespecting them.

You need to grow some balls and act more cocky around women. But you will not be abusing them. Make that distinction.

Basically the attitude you want to adopt when flirting with women is that you are the king/boss. But you are a benevolent king.

Challenge the woman without insulting her. And never bend over backwards for her.

Caring for women is not a problem, but you must save that until after she gets attracted to you.

You can calibrate this by being 10-20% more of an asshole. Of course you don't want to be 100% of an asshole -- which would actually hurt your results. But 10-20% more should be roughly the sweet-spot.

An easy way to implement this is to simply be more authentic about your negative assessments and emotions about her. For example, be brutally honest when you don't like something about her. You could tell her, "I don't like your dress." There probably already are plenty of things you don't like about her, but you don't say them because you are being too nice. Stop doing that. Be more authentic with your negative feelings. Stop trying to only be positive with her. Then you will shed your nice guy image.

If you really want to get good at this, you can ask yourself this question while you are flirting with her, "What doesn't please me about her?"

Then you might tell her something like, "Your glasses are goofy."

Then she will try to please you to re-gain your validation.

You have to be careful not to take this too far because it is possible to insult her and blow yourself out. For example, NEVER say negative things about her weight. Unless she is skinny like a toothpick, this will instantly blow you out. You need to find ways of expressing disapproval without being overly mean or insulting.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jordan A You can be a strong leader and don't put women on a pedestal without actually treating them bad or disrespecting them.

You need to grow some balls and act more cocky around women. But you will not be abusing them. Make that distinction.

Basically the attitude you want to adopt when flirting with women is that you are the king/boss. But you are a benevolent king.

Challenge the woman without insulting her. And never bend over backwards for her.

Caring for women is not a problem, but you must save that until after she gets attracted to you.

You can calibrate this by being 10-20% more of an asshole. Of course you don't want to be 100% of an asshole -- which would actually hurt your results. But 10-20% more should be roughly the sweet-spot.

An easy way to implement this is to simply be more authentic about your negative assessments and emotions about her. For example, be brutally honest something when you don't like something about her. You could tell her, "I don't like your dress." There probably already are plenty of things you don't like about her, but you don't say them because you are being too nice. Stop doing that. Be more authentic with your negative feelings. Stop trying to only be positive with her. Then you will shed your nice guy image.

This right here... is pure facts fellas.  

It's also good to sprinkle a little bit of femininity in there along with your natural masculinity.  They love that shit when you aren't afraid of embracing your feminine side.  Blindsides them like a MF.

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What is really your intention? What do you want from her? Does this intention mean stealing the other person's freedom?

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@Leo Gura so true..

I’m watching RSD in YouTube but It’s not even close to your wisdom..Where did u learn that?

 

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@Leo Gura How do you deal with the "dont care about her until fucking a few times" attitude. It is 1 thing to be strong and kind at the same time, that is doable. But being invested 0 until you fuck like  5 times is quite hard. It means that you will go on at least 6-7 dates and texting in between and stuff. Is it okay if you are strong kind and also independent but you also care about her and stuff

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11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Appear "nice and caring" rather than "nice and needy." that makes all the difference. 

^^^I second this 100%. You don't have to be an asshole, you need to have your own life and boundaries. That means saying no and being unavailable, not because you're a cold heartless asshole, but because you have other things in life going on that you need to tend to whether it be a job, hobbies, etc. Those will also give you something to talk about in terms of knowledge and experience which will help you connect to women. 

I feel that "nice guys" (and hell even "nice girls") are often guys who don't know how to set boundaries because they have been told that the word "no" is bad and that you need to bend over backward for people in order to get them to like you. These people are told that doing the opposite is selfish or being an asshole or a bitch. In turn that shadow can come out in ugly ways which makes you look needy and insecure. Being spineless is not cute for either sex. 

Edited by soos_mite_ah

Speaking into the void that sometimes answers back 

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3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Basically the attitude you want to adopt when flirting with women is that you are the king/boss. But you are a benevolent king.

Challenge the woman without insulting her. And never bend over backwards for her.

Caring for women is not a problem, but you must save that until after she gets attracted to you.

You can calibrate this by being 10-20% more of an asshole. Of course you don't want to be 100% of an asshole -- which would actually hurt your results. But 10-20% more should be roughly the sweet-spot.

An easy way to implement this is to simply be more authentic about your negative assessments and emotions about her. For example, be brutally honest when you don't like something about her. You could tell her, "I don't like your dress." There probably already are plenty of things you don't like about her, but you don't say them because you are being too nice. Stop doing that. Be more authentic with your negative feelings. Stop trying to only be positive with her. Then you will shed your nice guy image.

If you really want to get good at this, you can ask yourself this question while you are flirting with her, "What doesn't please me about her?"

Then you might tell her something like, "Your glasses are goofy."

While this is basically the gospel truth, and resonates with me 100%, this is just how I am naturally, and I am not sure how it would play out if someone were to fake it. I'm sure they can though. I wasn't always like this, but I can tell you with certainty that the reason I am this way (not giving a fuck, but also giving more fucks in a sense), is due to spiritual practice. Non-seriousness arises uncontrived when you realize you are literally everything and thus need nothing. I doubt this helps. Idk why I even post in the relationships section. My experience in becoming successful with women (I used to get rejected quite frequently) required no twists and turns, no trying, no methods, no practice, and no deliberation whatsoever. Once I stopped doing all of that, suddenly I was basically magnetic to women. My parents tease me about this change. My friends tease me about this change. Women seem to think I'm a player. I am nothing of the sort. When you go from wanting something so badly, to just simply not caring about it, that thing comes to you like it's nothing.

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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jordan A You can be a strong leader and don't put women on a pedestal without actually treating them bad or disrespecting them.

You need to grow some balls and act more cocky around women. But you will not be abusing them. Make that distinction.

Basically the attitude you want to adopt when flirting with women is that you are the king/boss. But you are a benevolent king.

Challenge the woman without insulting her. And never bend over backwards for her.

Caring for women is not a problem, but you must save that until after she gets attracted to you.

You can calibrate this by being 10-20% more of an asshole. Of course you don't want to be 100% of an asshole -- which would actually hurt your results. But 10-20% more should be roughly the sweet-spot.

An easy way to implement this is to simply be more authentic about your negative assessments and emotions about her. For example, be brutally honest when you don't like something about her. You could tell her, "I don't like your dress." There probably already are plenty of things you don't like about her, but you don't say them because you are being too nice. Stop doing that. Be more authentic with your negative feelings. Stop trying to only be positive with her. Then you will shed your nice guy image.

If you really want to get good at this, you can ask yourself this question while you are flirting with her, "What doesn't please me about her?"

Then you might tell her something like, "Your glasses are goofy."

Then she will try to please you to re-gain your validation.

You have to be careful not to take this too far because it is possible to insult her and blow yourself out. For example, NEVER say negative things about her weight. Unless she is skinny like a toothpick, this will instantly blow you out. You need to find ways of expressing disapproval without being overly mean or insulting.

Leo's comment is good advice for you, but I want to say it's not the only way.

"Basically the attitude you want to adopt when flirting with women is that you are the king/boss"

I have done game for many years and used to think similarly, but for anyone on a spiritual path I hope you can get past that. It's possible to come from a deeply peaceful, loving and authentic place and still be polarising and attractive. Personally when my ego starts feeling like "the boss" relating to dating, I typically find it amusing and feel deep love for this part of me, then go back to peace.

Following is a great post for anyone interested in a more healthy and less egoic way (in my opinion) to flirt and date :

https://www.reddit.com/r/seduction/comments/dnjzzo/dont_try_to_get_her_interested_attraction_is/

 

One thing I see a lot on this sub is questions about interest : "I want to know is she is interested", "I think she was interested but I couldn't escalate", "How to make that girl interested ?" and so on. I feel like addressing that, and would welcome any feedback or comments.

Interest is mental. It's in your head, it's rational, it's in control. Excitement is in your body, you feel it inside you. It's a powerful force that you can't control. Imagine you're going to see a movie, one you tell yourself "oh I'm really interested to see that movie", and the other one "Oh I'm so excited to see that movie !". Do you feel the difference ? In your opinion, which one will you go for ?

I had a discussion yesterday with one of my LTRs. She was telling me about this guy she had a date with. She told me "It went very well. I want to see him again but I'm afraid he will think there is seduction going on between us". I was surprised, and feeling bad for the poor guy, so I asked "well what makes you want to see him again if you don't want any seduction ?". And she told me he was very interesting, a fascinating person and discussion with him was smooth and intellectually stimulating. She would love to see him again. Obviously I told her he would probably like more than that and any guy I know after a date that went well would not be happy if the girl said "Hey I would love to see you again as friends".

I asked her : "but what's different with me ?" (our relationship is still pretty recent, we had sex on the first date and we connect very well physically). And she said something along the lines of "I don't know. I'm just so excited when I see you. I never know what will happen, and when we see each other I feel like my brain just melts and my body takes the lead".

I feel it's something that happens more and more often to me. I used to be all in my head, trying to show I was smart, funny, nice, interesting. I was focusing on looking good, demonstrate value, making money. And I didn't have nearly as much success as I do now. Now I have girls telling me that they have butterflies in their stomach when they think about me, that I'm always in their head. I just had a girl texting me three weeks after having sex telling me it was so profound that she made changes in her life and solved some long-lasting issues since then. So they talk about it to their friends, who obviously are very curious and interested when they meet me, and so on... So I never have to make an approach or use online dating, I just have an endless number of people wanting to meet me, interact with me, and eventually get into sensuality or sexuality with me, if excitement is there.

So, how to generate excitement ?

I think excitement goes in three steps :

Connecting to your body

Building a safe environment

Being in the flow

Step 1 : connecting to your body.

First paradox, you can't generate excitement if you're looking for excitement. Why ? Because "looking for something" is already being in your head. Right now, reading that text, picturing how it would fit in your life, what plans you can do about it, it's all in your head. You're probably asking yourself "is this worth it to read that wall of text ?", "Is this guy bullshitting or is it really an effective method ?". It's all mental.

What you need to look for is connecting to yourself. It's being inside yourself. Not only when you're with that girl, but all the time. Just noticing what goes inside you, without trying to change anything. When you have an emotion, observe how you feel. Don't rationalise, don't avoid it, just stay with it.

Go for yoga, meditation, massages, anything that gets you a connection to your body and sensations. Hug deeply the people you meet, friends and family. Get used to eye contact, be at peace with your body and your nakedness (yes, by that I mean being naked in front of people). Dance, move, let your body decide what is right for it. Danse in the streets, take care of your posture, take time to close your eyes and feel your breathing. Observe the little things around you like the wind in the trees, like children having fun.

When you're with a girl you like, shortcut your thoughts into your body. If you hear a voice telling you "oh my god, I wonder if she wants me to go for the kiss ?", focus on your breathing and sensations. If you tell yourself "oh shit I don't know what to say, she must be bored right now", just breath and put your consciousness in your body.

You're there right here and right now. You're perfect the way you are at this exact moment. Life is an experience, you can sit inside of you and enjoy, look at the movie that goes in front of you, and be present with any emotion or sensation.

Step 2 : Building a safe environment

You know what is preventing most girls to be in their body during interactions ? A perception of danger. During a first date, most guys will be stuck in their head trying to get laid, while most girls will be stuck in their head trying to protect themselves from getting in a situation they don't want.

Anxiety is the number one excitement-killer. It's the best way to not be in your body and even to dissociate (it's when you get completely disconnected from your body because the sensations are too difficult to handle. It's very important you know this so you can identify it and prevent it in yourself and the person you're with).

Number one safety-builder is consent. Basically the girl should feel at any point that she can decide what she wants and nothing is forced on her. There is no pression, no expectation other than for her to choose what she wants. It's especially true in the first steps of the interaction when there is still a bit of tension. Asking "can I touch your hand ?" instead of touching it directly will reassure her. Maybe she will be surprised, telling you "well of course you can, you don't have to ask !", but deep down she can rest a bit a be a bit more in her body.

Ask for questions that have yes / no answers. Like "do you want us to go to my place ?" and not "Where do you want to go ?". If she hesitates, diffuse the tension "Ok, I feel that's a maybe, so maybe we can take it as a no right now and see if that changes at some point". Just let her know that she can take her time to decide, and that anything that is not an enthusiastic yes is a no. That's what safety is.

Final tip for consent, the "thank you for you no" method. Whenever you hear someone declining your proposition, look at her in the eyes and say from your heart "thank you for your no". Why ? Because saying no is hard. Many girls are afraid to say no to guys because they don't want to hurt their feeling, they don't them to be frustrated, they don't want to argue. By saying that you put value on her being able to say what is right for her and affirming her boundaries. That's also great for you because you don't want anyone to do something with you they don't want to do, right ? I can't overstate how powerful it is and how I have seen some girls completely drop all their mental barriers after hearing that. Of course you have to really mean it, if you ask again 3 minutes later or if you show frustration, it doesn't do any good 

Another way to build safety is to have emotional and vulnerable discussion. The question "how do you feel ?" (and NOT "are you okay ?") is your best friend. You can ask it at any moment about anything. Go deep, don't stay on the surface. Learn to be vulnerable. Vulnerability is the most attractive trait in a human being. Scientific experiences have been made that show that we connect through our vulnerabilities (look at "the power of vulnerability" Ted Talk if you haven't already). The more you'll be able to talk about your emotions, your fears, your struggles, your emotional wounds, even your relationship to your parents, the more quickly you will build a deep sense of connection and security. Whatever is shared, especially if that's something emotional, welcome it and don't judge it. Listen attentively, and thank her for being herself in front of you. Most people never hear a thanks for just opening to someone, but that's very courageous. Be willing to show who you are, even the parts you struggle to love, and be open to welcome fully that person.

I need to precise something : you're not trying to please her. If you try to please her and agree with everything she says because you fear she will not like you, you will end up in the "boring zone" (which is the real name of the friend zone, being friends is great, being boring is not). Be honest and don't try to be liked, just try to integrate that person into your world, to make her feel at home in the interaction with you. Like she would with someone she has known for a long time and feel intimate with.

Step 3 : being in the flow

Ok so now you're able to connect to your body at will and are not intruded by self-judging thoughts. The beautiful person in front of you is completely secure and ready to abandon herself to her sensations. So what should you do ?

Nothing. There is nothing that should do. Don't try to impress her, don't try to "demonstrate value", don't try to escalate, and don't try to have sex. Instead, allow yourself to be who you are. What do you feel like doing ? Express what goes trough you. Be vulnerable, be authentic. If you feel awkward, say it, the other person probably feels it too. If you are afraid, share it ! If you want to touch her, ask for it. You want to be with her in a more intimate place ? Propose. You don't have anything to say ? Just contemplate the silence. You feel good ? Just say "I feel good when I'm with you". Smile if you feel like smiling, let spontaneity express itself through you (but don't ask yourself to be spontaneous !), be present and follow your intuition.

Being with the flow means not resisting to anything that life trows at you. She is expressing some negativity ? Don't consider it as a "shit test", it's just the expression of some insecurity. Take care of it. Be caring with everyone, but do not care about anything. Caring about someone is being present for that person, it's being deeply committed to make the experience as truthful and meaningful as possible. Caring about something is taking things personally, it's taking a no as a rejection, it's trying to make the person like you, it's putting expectations on what should happen.

When you're in the flow, you never know what will happen. This is something that I hear all the time "wow, I didn't expect us to have sex / to spend the full day together / to feel something so intense / to have so much fun". Why ? Because I didn't intend for any of those things to happen. I just tried to be present in the moment, listening to my desires and acting on them without expecting anything from the other person. Fulfilment doesn't come from reaching objectives that only generates more objectives. Fulfilment comes from loving the experience no matter what happens and feeling gratitude for being alive right here and right now.

Here are a few words I would advise to get rid of because they all put your power on external forces. You're better off without them :

Shit test : No one is testing you. You're yourself, there is nothing to test about that. Some reactions can generate anxiety inside you, and it's fine. Accept it as any emotion, smile, and stay connected to yourself.

Being rejected : you can't be rejected. You're a complete human being, nobody has the power to reject you. But they can decline your propositions. Start conversations with a closed question : "can I talk to you for a minute ?", "Can I sit with you ?". If you hear a no, just say "thank you for your no" and move on.

Cockblock : You can't be cockblocked if you're in the flow. The situation can change, people can interact, but it's not about you. A few days ago I was about to have a threesome when one of the girls' roommate got in the apartment in tears because of a break-up and we spent the evening giving her emotional support. Was I "cockblocked" ? No, I just adapted, took the change of situation as an opportunity to bring support to someone and made a deeper connection with three people. Use the word "opportunity" instead, it will change your mindset.

Physical type, as in "I'm not her physical type" : There is no physical type. Attraction is not about putting people into boxes. When a girl is attracted to you, she is not having a checklist of things you have and don't have, giving you a grade and then telling herself "hey, that's good enough for me". That's just mental bullshit. Attraction is about what you feel, what goes in your body. No matter how you look, you can still connect with anyone. You can build excitement, you can have a meaningful moment with no expectation.

League, as is "she's out of my league". There is no league. The most attractive guy I know is very average-looking. He's just magnetic, because he loves himself, he connects to his body, he builds the most amazing sense of safety and he is so much in the flow it's like he's synched to the other person. When he listens to you, it's like nobody has ever listened to you before. When he touches you, it's exactly the way you want to be touched. And there is never any pression to go forward or to do anything that is not right for you. The only important thing about appearance is that you love being in that body and you take care of it.

The more you practice being in the present moment, the easier it gets. After a while you'll realise that the girls you find the most attractive are also the ones that you connect with the most intensely. Why ? Because once you're not in your head, you will see beauty as something authentic and personal, not "this girl is pretty because she has nice make-up and good symmetry". You will go for physical features that appeal to you, that make sense to you. And your intuitive mind knows what is right for you.

It was a bit longer than expected, I hope it will help some of you. I can assure you that once you get into that authentic and mindful connection, seduction becomes like a dance. You let your mind go and deeply connect to yourself and the other person. You will see girls having a huge smile whenever they see you, you will have much better sex whenever you want and you will feel love and gratitude in your body and can share that feeling with the world.

I wish you all a wonderful journey.

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Bro, it's great to treat women nicely, don't drop it. It's actually a game changer. But what you also need is to own your character completely, own totally who you are, being very grounded, then - you'll get amazing results being nice.

For me personally being SUPER NICE became sort of my style, I am OVERLY NICE and I'd say I am much more nicer than most guys (maybe 99%).

But being nice of that caliber means you almost drop any judgement and accept the person as he is and you're welcoming him in whatever way he is. It's very different form of nice as what we call typical "nice guys" have. They are not actually nice, they are hypocrites and women sense that and don't trust them (as they should).

Be so nice women can't ignore you, ultimate form of nice, it's super contagious. Not the meak form of nice, but powerful and empowering one.

Imagine being a servant as some janitor vs being a servant as a king. King serves people too, but in a very different way and manner

P.S. That being said, I totally acknowledge the style of being a bit jerky, way too playful and many other things. After you have some fundamentals down it becomes more about the style of your personality. And of course it's never about simple gimmicks, actually go and learn the skill of communication and you'll be at a very good place in this area

Edited by Hello from Russia

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@knakoo Nice share, the writer has some really great advice. Although I feel it may not be applicable for every single guy. I think if some guys followed this advice they would come across as too needy and nice guy. The writer seems extremely confident and grounded in himself, which allows him to act in the way he describes in his post and be successful with women. I think a lot of guys just need a more hardcore, more masculine, approach in order to get over their anxiety. Then they can start implementing his advice about setting up a safe environment and moving into the body. 

But all in all I love the post, I want to read more from him tbh.

 

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12 hours ago, MrBON said:

@Leo Gura How do you deal with the "dont care about her until fucking a few times" attitude. It is 1 thing to be strong and kind at the same time, that is doable. But being invested 0 until you fuck like  5 times is quite hard. It means that you will go on at least 6-7 dates and texting in between and stuff. Is it okay if you are strong kind and also independent but you also care about her and stuff

You're not literally gonna be 0% invested through all that. Just keep your investment low. The best way to do that is by talking to more girls until she wants to go exclusive with you.

You can invest a lot more after the first sex.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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28 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

Bro, it's great to treat women nicely, don't drop it. It's actually a game changer. But what you also need is to own your character completely, own totally who you are, being very grounded, then - you'll get amazing results being nice.

For me personally being SUPER NICE became sort of my style, I am OVERLY NICE and I'd say I am much more nicer than most guys (maybe 99%).

But being nice of that caliber means you almost drop any judgement and accept the person as he is and you're welcoming him in whatever way he is. It's very different form of nice as what we call typical "nice guys" have. They are not actually nice, they are hypocrites and women sense that and don't trust them (as they should be).

Be so nice women can't ignore you, ultimate form of nice, it's super contagious. Not the meak form of nice, but powerful and empowering one. Imagine being a servant as some janitor vs being a servant as a king. King serves his people too, but in a very different way and manner

P.S. That being said, I totally acknowledge the style of being a bit jerky, way too playful and many other things. After you have some fundamentals down it becomes more about the style of your personality. And of course it's never about simple gimmicks, actually go and learn the skill of communication and you'll be at a very good place in this area

I agree with this. 

 


 INFJ loner... .shy girl.. 

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I came up with a good illustration:

If you really want to make her a Queen, you should make yourself a King first
Nothing is wrong with putting her on a pedestal, as long as you're on this pedestal too

Edited by Hello from Russia

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12 minutes ago, Hello from Russia said:

I came up with a good illustration:

If you really want to make her a Queen, you should make yourself a King first
Nothing is wrong with putting her on a pedestal, as long as you're on this pedestal too

Right. This whole thing of not putting someone on a pedestal screams Insecurity and low self esteem in my head 

It's like if I said "hey I don't wanna put my boyfriend on a pedestal" like what?? Would he like it if I said that to him? Absolutely not. 

How does a woman feel when you say to her "I'm not going to treat you like a queen", that can appear really assholic and mean and probably a great way of pissing her off for good

Also if a man didn't say that to her but acted in a way where he is putting her down or treating her like "not important", why should she care to be in a relationship with him. She might as well find a guy who actually treats her like a queen and puts her on a pedestal. 

I had guys who would say such things to me in the attraction phase and I would say to myself "next guy please" "don't want a man who doesn't value my presence enough." it screams such insecurity on the part of the guy and I don't want a guy with a strongly insecure mindset, it's already gonna be a rocky relationship. 

Some men are so clueless as to what's going on in a woman's head. Then they go read books to learn it yet those books contain wrong information. 

What a woman feels, she will show it in her action. If a man wants to regret his experience with a woman by seeing her walk away, then a good recipe would be to start treating her like she doesn't matter. Women are not fools. They see through a man's games and bullshit. They can feel a guy ignoring them, they just take decisions in the end and walk away. These insecure men then think what went wrong. It's really simple, as simple as - - treat others how you would want to be treated. Do you wanna be treated like a king and given value as a man in relationship, then treat the woman also like she really matters. 

 

Edited by Preety_India

 INFJ loner... .shy girl.. 

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