Connor Murphy has Eckhart-style awakening

[mandyjw]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Reality is far too profound of a thing to make logic sense to a finite and fearful human mind. To understand God you must surrender all your judgments and attachments.

God is infinite imagination, but you are asking God to be something less than that because it makes you uncomfortable. Well, sorry, but God has bigger priorities than you personal comfort.

Be a moth to the flame not a moth to the blame. 

[AtheisticNonduality]

40 minutes ago, Someone here said:

@Leo Gura

Would you address this?  I want to understand why it is such that consciousness will dream hell if it's infinitely good and infinitely intelligent? Is it being dreamed randomly like consciousness can't help itself but explode all it's potential? Is there not a choice for consciousness to create only a limited section of its capabilities? Why am I a fool as God to create hell and torture myself? What's the point? 

I already explained this to you like two months ago, but you were still stuck in the "emptiness/nothingness is the only true facet of awakening" phase.

On another note, visual snow, tinnitus, and mild tracers aren't even hallucinations in my opinion. I've never been without them in my life. And they are actually quite useful. I suppose if it gets to extreme, such as Forestluv is suggesting, it can be a problem.

 

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There was a realization that it was a “different person” person and a thought of “Inwonder what she thinks of me”. Then there was knowing of a “me” and it was taking control of my mind and body. It was awful. I started rolling on the ground, yelling as the “me” took over my mind and body. Kinda like a reverse “ego death”.

@Forestluv Yes, I suppose that's a more metaphysical explanation for why babies are born screaming.

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I'd actually want to experience that because I'm super curious about how one goes to 2. How we got here so to speak.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by AtheisticNonduality

[Someone here]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Consciousness likes to dream. That's what it does.

Why would there be any limits upon what one can dream? The nature of dreaming is that it's unlimited.

You are still judging good vs bad. From the POV of Infinite Consciousness all dreams are valid, interesting, and part of the whole. God is not going to exclude stuff nor eliminate stuff just because a human doesn't like it.

You can't really appreciate how unlimited and powerful Consciousness is unless you experience some of the nightmares it can dream up.

Your question is basically the age-old question of: If God exists, why would he allow evil?

To which the answer is, God sees no evil, but you do since you are attached to finite forms.

Reality is far too profound of a thing to make logic sense to a finite and fearful human mind. To understand God you must surrender all your judgments and attachments.

God is infinite imagination, but you are asking God to be something less than that because it makes you uncomfortable. Well, sorry, but God has bigger priorities than you personal comfort.

Beautiful and makes sense. The point that trips me up is that I am God ffs.. I'm doing this to myself.. I'm judging my own creation. I guess it's all part of the cosmic joke. 

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

God is not going to exclude stuff nor eliminate stuff just because a human doesn't like it.

But what about the human? Why does reality allow that if it's so loving? It doesn't seem loving when you look at it from within that human perspective. And isn't that perspective, of feeling unloved/suffering valid?

What does that mean for a human? That they are a just a sacrifice? A toy that gets thrown away after reality is done with it?

I am curious because sure, from outside of our own limited perspectives everything is perfect, but doesn't that dismiss/ignore our limited perspective?

I mean even a nightmare happens out of some loving reason, but isn't that ignoring the validity of the dream character? The one that suffers?

Isn't it like killing a frog in order to dissect it? You might learn something interesting in the process, but it is the frog that suffers because of your need to know/experience the frogs intestines.

Basically: How can 'unconditional' love ever be unfair? Unfair in that it dismisses the suffering of the limited perspective?

Or is it perfectly fair? Is that what karma is? But what if your entire life is suffering (being born in a war-torn country for example)

How is this fair? Or is there a problem with comparing fairness and unconditional love? Why would that be? You would think that unconditional means fair, but perhabs that just my limited understanding.

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Nahm]

 

@Someone here

Infinite can not know finite. 

[allislove]

@Red-White-Light it seems people who haven't had experience with psychedelics&awakenings trying to make a drama from it. 
It's all good, he just need some time for integration and perhaps some talk with other beings on the path  

@electroBeam sure, but for the sake of Goodness believe in yourself ??

[Leo Gura]

32 minutes ago, DefinitelyNotARobot said:

But what about the human? Why does reality allow that if it's so loving? It doesn't seem loving when you look at it from within that human perspective. And isn't that perspective, of feeling unloved/suffering valid?

The human cannot appreciate the trans-human.

Yes, from the human perspective reality can seem unfair, cruel, evil, depressing, unloving, etc. But that's just the human's limited and self-biased view of reality.

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What does that mean for a human? That they are a just a sacrifice? A toy that gets thrown away after reality is done with it?

Of course! A human is an illusion because everything is an illusion. You want something beyond illusion but that is impossible since illusion is everything.

Yes, you are a toy and you have an expiration date. Enjoy it while it lasts cause it will be over very soon.

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I am curious because sure, from outside of our own limited perspectives everything is perfect, but doesn't that dismiss/ignore our limited perspective?

Yes, there is a limited perspective which does not see perfection. The point is to try to break out of it.

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I mean even a nightmare happens out of some loving reason, but isn't that ignoring the validity of the dream character? The one that suffers?

When you are suffering, the suffering feels real. That's the illusion of it. And it is tragic in sense because if you had more consciousness you'd laugh at the suffering. But you don't so you cry. You get trapped in the illusion -- until you escape.

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Isn't it like killing a frog in order to dissect it? You might learn something interesting in the process, but it is the frog that suffers because of your need to know/experience the frogs intestines.

If you don't want to suffer, then don't be born at all.

Consider the following: if I gave you a choice between being born but suffering vs not being born and not suffering, you would choose to be born. Which is why you're here. Ta-da! The possibility of suffering is what makes life exciting. Otherwise life would be too fake and easy, like a cartoon.

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Basically: How can 'unconditional' love ever be unfair? Unfair in that it dismisses the suffering of the limited perspective?

It doesn't dismiss suffering. It fully recognizes the strong illusion of suffering from within every limited creature's perspective. But what can it do about it? To eliminate all suffering is not an option because that would kill every creature in the universe. Suffering is the mechanism by which creatures survive and learn.

Again, consider this: if you were the parent of a child and you were given the option between A) your child never experiencing pain vs B) your child experiencing pain normally as humans do, you would choose option B because choosing option A would mean your child dies within a month of being born.

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Or is it perfectly fair? Is that what karma is? But what if your entire life is suffering (being born in a war-torn country for example)

It's not fair from the human perspective. But it's fair from the Cosmic perspective because you will live through all possible lives and experience all the highs and all the lows. If you were born in a war-torn country this lifetime, in some future lifetime you will be born as a Brad Pitt.

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How is this fair? Or is there a problem with comparing fairness and unconditional love? Why would that be? You would think that unconditional means fair, but perhabs that just my limited understanding.

It's fair when you realize that God will experience every possible experience that could ever be experienced, and they will all balance each other out.

God will experience all the greatest evil and all the greatest good. And thus God will come to know itself fully. You can't know yourself until you've experienced the full range of what you are capable of. Which happens to be Infinite.

Consider this: How could God know what pain is, or what heartbreak is, or what torture is, or what rape is, unless God lived through all those experiences? So here you are, living through all those experiences so you could know them intimately, not just theoretically.

[abrakamowse]

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Forestluv

Just want to clarify I respect the substance. However, I am not afraid of it. 

You know... Martin Ball did it like 3 times a day for 7 years.

Each mind-body has it’s own relationship the substance. You get to have the relationship you get to have.  

[Someone here]

1 hour ago, Nahm said:

 

@Someone here

Infinite can not know finite. 

I hear this from you a lot. Would you break it down a little bit. I think the finite can't comprehend the infinite as well. Aren't they same at the end? Not two? 

[Red-White-Light]

1 hour ago, allislove said:

@Red-White-Light it seems people who haven't had experience with psychedelics&awakenings trying to make a drama from it. 
It's all good, he just need some time for integration and perhaps some talk with other beings on the path  

The path is heading for the biggest dark night of the soul. He's in denial of how much suffering he will need to face. It's going to be a real serious test for him. This is why you keep your spiritual work private. It's an ugly brutal process. This forum can't help him, only he can become aware of his mistakes and it seems he needs to smash his head into a wall to gain that wisdom, sadly.

[abrakamowse]

@Forestluv @Thought Art

Wasn't Martin Ball having some health problems due to his excessive use of psychedelics? I don't know, I am just asking... There was a post here about that...

 

Edited November 27, 2020 by abrakamowse

[Nahm]

4 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I hear this from you a lot. Would you break it down a little bit. I think the finite can't comprehend the infinite as well. Aren't they same at the end? Not two? 

Some times folks propose inquiry, surrender, etc, yet reveal a different intention unbeknownst to themselves. As you said, you’ve already heard it a lot. 

[Someone here]

@Nahm I have no "intentions" no nothing. I'm asking genuinely. Maybe I framed it in a way that creates an impression that I'm going to argue back and forth with you. But that's not true. 

No worries thx. 

Edited November 27, 2020 by Someone here

[Nahm]

@Someone here

No problem man, much love. Inquiry and or surrender was on option there, in case ya missed that. 

[The0Self]

7 hours ago, Someone here said:

Leo why does it have to be this way? I had a crazy nightmare last night I realized what you are talking about. Consciousness can materialize everything imaginable. This is a total mind killer. In the dream I saw how there is no limit to what can be created by consciousness.. Why just why? Infinity fine I get it but still just fucking why?!! Who is controlling this? There is no limit to what can created and experienced.. But why  God is such a fool to use his infinite power to create hell?

Infinity is beyond any whys, hows, decisions, or control. It's beyond experience as well.

And to God, there is no discrimination or judgement. God "longs-for" the experience of anything and everything, and so that's what God gets.

Edited November 27, 2020 by The0Self

[The0Self]

5 hours ago, Pateedm said:

Were you practicing constant self inquiry, or just as a sitting practice?

Constant. And also in sitting practice. I also had previously trained some very stable attention using the TMI system -- had already reached Jhanas 1 and 2 at the time. Just kept resting as awareness which got easier and simpler as I realized anything that appeared wasn't what I was looking for -- I kept attempting to attach to the nonexistent knower, ignoring all experience in the process, leading to a very transcendent state where something quite magical would happen and experience practically flipped inside out.

[The0Self]

51 minutes ago, Someone here said:

I hear this from you a lot. Would you break it down a little bit. I think the finite can't comprehend the infinite as well. Aren't they same at the end? Not two? 

It's actually kind of simple: if the infinite knew the finite, it wouldn't be the infinite, because there'd be something other than it, and infinity is everything.

[allislove]

1 hour ago, Red-White-Light said:

The path is heading for the biggest dark night of the soul. He's in denial of how much suffering he will need to face. It's going to be a real serious test for him. This is why you keep your spiritual work private. It's an ugly brutal process. This forum can't help him, only he can become aware of his mistakes and it seems he needs to smash his head into a wall to gain that wisdom, sadly.

Yeah, that's the drama story I was referring to. Let it go ??

[Red-White-Light]

@allislove Thank you.