Conspiracy Nutcases Mega-Thread

[Rilles]

4 minutes ago, No Self said:

Good points. I've wondered this as well. So much of human activity has consisted of trying to fix the world without fixing our underlying unconsciousness.

I never foresaw New Age and Nazism fusing as they have. Yet they have an important aspect in common: trying to discard troubled old ways of being, only to jump out of the frying pan of the ego and into the fire.

New Age and Nazism actually have some similarites that go way way back, although just a little bit, I dont have any sources right now but I will share some later. Hitler was a vegan after all...  

[No Self]

@Rilles You are correct. Hitler was a vegetarian at least. They say he used to preach about the horrors of slaughterhouses to his dinner guests. Yet he then made slaughterhouses for humans.

Nazism was associated with astrology and the ideas about Aryan superiority have been regarded as pseudoscience, which New Age is also notorious for promoting. Both also share the extreme projection and suppression of a dark shadow as an ego defense measure, combined with self-glorifying propaganda. And the lack of grounding in reality fogging the distinction between fantasy and fact. (Clearly all this is a 'fool's gold' strategy to cope with underlying pain.)

One thoughtful article I was reading pointed out that New Age is a lightweight spirituality for people who want the feel-good antics and lovey-dovey stuff without the heavy lifting. It also has a history of moving from one superficial trend to the next without ever committing to anything long-term.

Love & light to all my Aryan brothers.

[roopepa]

What the fuck

[Rilles]

17 minutes ago, roopepa said:

What the fuck

What a shame meditation and psychedelics have to lumped in with that other non-sense. 

[Lyubov]

35 minutes ago, Rilles said:

What a shame meditation and psychedelics have to lumped in with that other non-sense. 

there is a small portion of online psychonauts that have dmt'd their stupid asses into a q-anon hole 

[Dryas]

 

[Jodistrict]

1 hour ago, Lyubov said:

there is a small portion of online psychonauts that have dmt'd their stupid asses into a q-anon hole 

Set and Setting are more important than the drug.    I saw a YouTube video of some Westerners having a 5-MEO-DMT ceremony and it sounded more like a beer keg party.   Garbage in garbage out.  That’s why I only take psychedelic medicines in Mexico, outside of the poisonous American culture.  

[Scholar]

It seems like what motivates the creation of conspiracy theories is very much the same force that creates religions. And it seems like the attempt of unifying the conspiracy theories is actually another extended force present within creation of religions, akin to integrating multiple theistic traditions into one unified polytheistic tradition, which then might be attempted to be turned into a monotheistic one.

Very interesting. Or we are just entering into Stage One Idiocracy.

[Leo Gura]

A lot of spiritual people are not truly thinking for themselves or contemplating reality, they are just blindly following a new, higher kind of religion/ideology, which easily becomes a cult.

I've met western Zen Buddhists whose minds are riddled with Buddhist dogma and no direct experience of God.

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

Set and Setting are more important than the drug.    I saw a YouTube video of some Westerners having a 5-MEO-DMT ceremony and it sounded more like a beer keg party.   Garbage in garbage out.  

It seems a lot of people just associate 5-meo as a spiritual / personal development tool. I've seen people on online forums that are using 5-meo recreationally. I've also seen some people speak of 5-meo as a way to escape life and take away the pain. It has different effects on different people. 

[Girzo]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot of spiritual people are not truly thinking for themselves

And that's what sometimes makes small talk before or after yoga classes irittating.

I don't know why, but I had that expectation that people investing time and money to learn yoga would be the most developed people I can find in my city. Turns out 1/3 of them is conspiracy nuts and the rest doesn't care about spirituality in a deeper sense at all.

But the same happens in psychedelic circles. There are people who are like "LSD is cool, but you know what else is cool, Meth." or "If government wasn't stealing my money through taxes I would be able to smoke pot everyday and drop acid whenever I want."

[electroBeam]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot of spiritual people are not truly thinking for themselves or contemplating reality, they are just blindly following a new, higher kind of religion/ideology, which easily becomes a cult.

I've met western Zen Buddhists whose minds are riddled with Buddhist dogma and no direct experience of God.

Hold on, I've seen more of the opposite happen. 

People are deluded before spirituality, but then after doing the practices, they start developing compassion and understanding for different people, including different political ideologies and stages of development. 

The idea that you can still be deeply deluded and practice spirituality doesn't hold true. How can you still hate Trump after realizing trump is infinite you. If anything you'll develop compassion for Trump.

Yeah there are spiritual people who believe in conspiracy theories, or psychedelic people who are stuck in the mind, but are these people doing the practices seriously? Not in my XP. You surely can't be doing serious practices of loving the universe and then still believe in conspiracy theories that hurt the universe. 

Edited October 14, 2020 by electroBeam

[Lyubov]

wtf....

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Girzo said:

I don't know why, but I had that expectation that people investing time and money to learn yoga would be the most developed people I can find in my city. Turns out 1/3 of them is conspiracy nuts and the rest doesn't care about spirituality in a deeper sense at all.

Of course. Because virtually nobody is genuinely interested in pursuing truth. Most people pursue spirituality because it makes them feel good, which is still function of ego/survival. People are not seriously interested in deconstructing themselves and reality. Those folks who get sucked into yoga or a Sadhguru program are doing it out of conformity, not any serious desire for truth. Nobody following Sadhguru is interested in truth. They watch his videos like a monkey who has discovered a shiny peddle.

2 hours ago, electroBeam said:

Hold on, I've seen more of the opposite happen. 

People are deluded before spirituality, but then after doing the practices, they start developing compassion and understanding for different people, including different political ideologies and stages of development. 

The idea that you can still be deeply deluded and practice spirituality doesn't hold true.

Ha! People are 99% deluded before spirituality and then they become 97% deluded after practicing spirituality.

Even deeply enlightened people can still be highly deluded. As I keep saying, none of this stuff is a binary switch. There are many, many degrees and dimensions to spiritual work. Just because someone does some spiritual practices or studies some spiritual material does not mean jack. You should still treat them as though they are deeply deluded.

I find that most spiritual people do not take epistemic issues seriously. They couldn't even tell you what epistemology is. Go ask on of Sadhguru's followers about epistemology. You will see they are clueless.

The kind of things I talk about are not talked about in most spiritual schools. It is not all the same, as it might seem. Just because someone uses words like "love", "God", "spirituality", "meditation", "consciousness", "awakening", etc. does not mean they are on the same level. These binary words obscure a lot of depth.

Never, ever trust that some spiritual person is fully awake. I don't care how many decades of experience he has.

[electroBeam]

6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

I find that most spiritual people do not take epistemic issues seriously. They couldn't even tell you what epistemology is. Go ask on of Sadhguru's followers about epistemology. You will see they are clueless.

You need to factor in your personality type. An Enneagram type 7 or an ENFJ would say "most spiritual people are just into mental masturbation, go ask on Leo's forum how many people actually embody the mystical insights they love talking about rather than just talking about them. Unlike Sadhguru's forum where the people there don't talk about it much but actually embody it".

I've found that people who are not intellectual/jnana types (more bhakti, kriya or karma types) are way better at embodying the truth then the jnanas. But they don't talk about epistemology because they think talk is cheap. And there's a lot of truth to that. Real spirituality is <1% experiences and >99% embodiment. You can talk like a parrot about all these concepts, have thousands of experiences, sound super intelligent, yet embody nothing. These are the sorts of people who take psychedelics but don't do the practices.

Like how well they talk about epistemology is not a good indicator of spiritual growth. How much they embody it is way better. Everything is one? Great now go read a book about hitler's life and have compassion for him. Go to a poor place in Africa and see the oneness in them. You can feel oneness while meditating or when things are comfortable. Go live on the streets after getting fired and then see the oneness. 

And there's lots of people on forums like Sadhguru's who don't talk much but when you're around them, the act and do things indirectly which implies strong growth. You can feel the love they have for the poor, and the understanding they have when talking to others. You have to remember talking and epistemology is a enneagram 5 specific thing. There's all those other enneagram types that approach spirituality in a totally different way, still just as valid, but different. 

I agree though that 95%(or more actually) aren't into truth. Even this forum isn't really into truth, I don't think its massively truth oriented compared to other groups. I've written posts on here that alienate lots of people because I'm willing to go through heaps of suffering for the truth. My account got banned partially because of that reason, people even here don't get why someone would go through heaps of suffering for the truth. 

[Apparition of Jack]

I once went out with a girl who was into drum circles, bush dances, LSD, oneness etc so I thought I was going to have some good conversation about politics, the environment, etc 

When I told her I supported Bernie Sanders she was a bit upset and basically said she didn’t support him because people work hard for their money, implying Bernie would tax working people too much

I was kinda surprised, I had assumed that all drum circley people were stage Green hippies but I learnt that day that many of them are just Orange people who want a coping mechanism for capitalism without wanting to deal with the systemic issues of it.  In that sense it’s almost like a “typical” religion like Christianity in that it’s just something people believe and go to events for to make their lives mildly more comfortable. 

Anyway that’s my random story. Sometimes you’ll find Tier 2 thinkers in the most random of places. Looking for “spiritual” people can be hit or miss, lol.

[Preety_India]

@Apparition of Jack  go with a real hippie next time 

 

[Apparition of Jack]

10 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Apparition of Jack  go with a real hippie next time 

 

Yes ma'am

[DrewNows]

56 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course. Because virtually nobody is genuinely interested in pursuing truth. Most people pursue spirituality because it makes them feel good, which is still function of ego/survival. People are not seriously interested in deconstructing themselves and reality. Those folks who get sucked into yoga or a Sadhguru program are doing it out of conformity, not any serious desire for truth. Nobody following Sadhguru is interested in truth. They watch his videos like a monkey who has discovered a shiny peddle.

Maybe other people just aren't stuck in the same dichotomy as you because they have a different relation with truth and the external world. You'd have to completely break out of your own spell to consider ideologies that aren't so "realistic". We aren't humans have a spiritual experience, but spirits having a human experience. The spiritually inclined not of such a fixed earthly nature will have a huge edge on you when it comes to breaking through words/the matrix/and getting inside the physical . That's why your video was shallow to so many despite the big picture view, it lacked/negated too many perspectives and ignored value. Of course there's truth and value in all ideologies, but how many get to the foundation/core of the unconventional/undesirables? it requires continuous outward/inward research/exploration/reflection that doesn't meet most people's values and attention span. Congrats on the house btw. please do consider other paths have a drastically different modality and matrix of relative truths. Also i think it's obvious all teachings offer something new as you go deeper into expansion, experiences change entirely, there will be new angles/points of relatability. You cannot assume a teacher is speaking from any point other than your own. How much direct experience and survival related beliefs can actually be questioned? 

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A lot of spiritual people are not truly thinking for themselves or contemplating reality, they are just blindly following a new, higher kind of religion/ideology, which easily becomes a cult.

I've met western Zen Buddhists whose minds are riddled with Buddhist dogma and no direct experience of God.

People realize there's no actual thinking for oneself, just higher and higher levels of truth, using more energy/information, relatively speaking. Didn't "you" get the memo?  

Why would i prefer to use the "dogmatic" Buddhist ideologies, maybe because i have respect for what offered me guidance on my path. As a reincarnated soul, i may no longer value those ideologies from past lives. 

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

I find that most spiritual people do not take epistemic issues seriously. They couldn't even tell you what epistemology is. Go ask on of Sadhguru's followers about epistemology. You will see they are clueless

it helps to learn our own biases/weaknesses. but then there's still choice to favor what comes naturally. Many don't require "learning how to break down a belief" to see through them, and there's great value in beliefs. Take the corona virus for example, it's literally a thought, built upon a theory of science that has everyone wearing silly masks to try not to "catch" a cold/flu. Learn from the health nuts,  How sneaky can the appearances in this reality truly be? See if you can debunk the germ theory. Taking health beyond the words means into the fabric/substance of reality, aka energy, and no theory in materialistic world views will ever get to the root, but there's definitely "more truth/answers" in the terrain theory. mainstream media is probably the biggest conspiracy theory out there  

[Akemrelax]

@electroBeam Sure, Sadhguru might embody more spirituality than Leo (arguable but okay), but does he understand politics and his biases? I would say his political understanding is bad. 

Are his followers genuine truth seekers or are they mostly dogmatic Hindu religious nuts? Do his followers actually understand anything when he says magical stuff or do they just accept it without questioning? If we are being honest his followers mostly follow him because of religious dogma and other reasons, not really for truth.

And don't forget just because someone is "enlightened" doesn't mean they know how politics works or how to perform surgery. We can't even be sure they know the limits of their mind imo.