Posted November 7, 2020 (edited) 11 minutes ago, Tim R said: @The Don Dude, the world doesn't become a safe place by spending a shitload of money on weapons - it becomes a safer place by making sure that there won't be any reason to buy weapons in the first place. Dude, no! You don't get rid of Hitler by listening to peace activists who say "War is not the answer!". War is the only answer, especially when you have to deal with Nazism or people like Stalin. You never get to remove evil from power by singing love songs. It's naive to believe that the world becomes a safer place by making sure that there won't be any reason to buy weapons in the first place. That's utopia. Humans are not basically good. History proves that. You have to declare WAR on devilry. You have to confront it and ultimately destroy it. I've been reading books about the history of Communism and Nazim. What humanity went through is horrifying. Since you appear to be naive, I assume you have no idea what humanity had to deal with. My parents lived under communism. If you were to listen to them, you'd change your mind in an instant. I'm a little bit obsessed with evil because I don't want the human race to regress and never learn from history. Edited November 7, 2020 by The Don To correct the word "humanity". Me on the road less traveled. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 7 minutes ago, The Don said: You don't get rid of Hitler by listening to peace activists who say "War is not the answer!". War is the only answer, especially when you have to deal with Nazism or people like Stalin. Firstly, good on you for having a go at providing an alternative take. Regarding the above argument, though, remember the saying: “If all you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail." Implying that all of the modern world's problems are solved by war is exactly the mindset that caused Nazism in the first place. There is definitely a place for resorting to conflict: when there is no other choice. Every good police officer knows that you solve problems using the least force possible, though occasionally that does mean resorting to violence. But not every time for Christ's sake! The treaties of the EU and other systems for global diplomacy have replaced the outdated might-is-right mindset that the US remains entrenched in. Ironically, Germany is today one of the most powerful nations on Earth, arguably the leader of the free world (no offense to the US) yet known for trade rather than military might. Welcome to the 21st century. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 How can I believe that Biden may be at stage Turquoise in Spiral Dynamics when he appears to be more like mean Green vMeme level? Because he needs to play that role, or most people wouldn't grasp or support him. The same with Trump who needs to make people at stage Red, Blue and Orange understand and support him. That's a monumental task. How to say "I love China" to people at those stages and still get away with it? Lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Don said: You don't get rid of Hitler by listening to peace activists who say "War is not the answer!". True! But again, the point is to make sure that no one like Hitler raises to power in the first place. 5 minutes ago, The Don said: You have to declare WAR on devilry. How do you think (almost) every war is justified, hm? Everybody thinks "THEY are the bad guys, WE, the GOOD GUYS must FIGHT THEM!" And that's just pure f*cking ignorance. "Fighting wars for peace" you see the irony? 11 minutes ago, The Don said: Since you appear to be naive, I assume you have no idea what humanity had to deal with. My parents lived under communism. If you were to listen to them, you'd change your mind in an instant. Nah don't worry about that, I was born in Sibiria, Russia in the 90s and my parents lived during bad, bad times under communism, too. They told me some scary stories about what they had to deal with during and after the collapse of the soviet union. That's why we left the country. 15 minutes ago, The Don said: I've been reading books about the history of Communism and Nazim. What humanity went through is horrifying. Since you appear to be naive, I assume you have no idea what humanity had to deal with. My parents lived under communism. If you were to listen to them, you'd change your mind in an instant. I'm a little bit obsessed with evil because I don't want the human race to regress and never learn from history. You sound a lot like someone who listens to Jordan Peterson? Not that there's anything wrong with that, just be careful not to let him hypnotize you with his horror stories. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Anderz said: How can I believe that Biden may be at stage Turquoise in Spiral Dynamics Who said he is at Turquoise? Hes Orange/green Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @Rilles I say (guess) that Biden may be at Turquoise. Because to grasp and manage politics at that level is an incredibly complicated task. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Anderz said: @Rilles I say (guess) that Biden may be at Turquoise. Because to grasp and manage politics at that level is an incredibly complicated task. Whats so unique about his politics? Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @Anderz No way .. I think you're misunderstanding Spiral Dynamics. Just because someone can handle the complicated task of being a president, doesn't mean that someone has to be way up the spiral. There could well be a red/blue president. See some leaders in Nigeria, and also Trump (he's got some orange, too). There never has been a president that was Turquoise up to now. And there will be none in the next 100 years, because the population is not nearly advanced enough. Even Bernie Sanders ideas where too advanced for the American population. And he's full on green with possibly hints of yellow. The Secret of this Universe is You. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @Rilles It's the level of politics I'm thinking of. Running the entire U.S. government is a huge operation. It may seem easy, but we only see the surface presentation of it. It's similar to how I believe Sadhguru is at stage Turquoise with an ability to teach nonduality to huge and basically mainstream audiences. Sadhguru makes is look easy and he even said that for him it is easy. It would hardly be easy for someone at the first tier level of Spiral Dynamics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @vibv True, no country is hardly even at stage Yellow. But my idea is that the leaders of nations need to be way above the level of the nations themselves. There is a surface level presentation and another level behind the public scene. We can mostly only judge by the surface appearance, so it's just my own speculation I admit. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 40 minutes ago, Rilles said: Who said he is at Turquoise? Hes Orange/green I tot Biden is blue and Trump is red. Spiral Dynamics I mean. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 Biden is a healthy Centrist Green. That's the best solution for America. America always needed someone like Biden. He is the best President for America, even better than Obama or Clinton. INFJ-T,ptsd,BPD, autism, anger issues Cleared out ignore list today. .. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @Etherial Cat Of course, at the level of operation Biden is Orange and Green. But running the U.S. government is vastly more complex than running one's personal everyday life. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 11 minutes ago, Anderz said: It's the level of politics I'm thinking of. Running the entire U.S. government is a huge operation. It may seem easy, but we only see the surface presentation of it Hes not running the US alone, there are thousands of people running the US. Hes just the head-honcho. You dont need to be Turquouise for that. Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 Just now, Mikael89 said: Spiral dynamics is nonsense. Because? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 @Rilles Yes, you may be correct, that for example Trump doesn't have to do much and is handed reports, strategies and even speeches made by large teams of experts. So I could be wrong. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 4 minutes ago, Mikael89 said: Spiral dynamics is nonsense, imo. Spiral Dynamics is a model. And a model is never really the Truth. But that begin said Spiral Dynamics is a really good model for understanding a whole lot of what's going on in the world. The Secret of this Universe is You. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 1 minute ago, Mikael89 said: I disagree on that too. Do you know a better model? Genuinely curious. Dont look at me! Look inside! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 7, 2020 1 hour ago, Rilles said: Do you know a better model? Genuinely curious. why do we even need a model? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
