Why trust our direct experience?

[Johnny5]

@Meta-Man How close can you get to a mirage before it starts to break down...?

Get yer phone out, don't wanna miss it...

[allislove]

On 8/28/2020 at 6:56 PM, Consilience said:

Direct experience is literally all you have. Like... there’s NOTHING else. 

Lol, wanted to write this but it's already here ?

[Johnny5]

1 minute ago, Meta-Man said:

Dig deeper

Just desert ☹️  ?‍♂️ 

[Farnaby]

@Meta-Man ok, I get what you mean. All thoughts appear in consciousness is what you mean? 

Don't you think it's still useful to understand how things work? 

Even if the idea "the earth is a globe" is an idea, it's useful to understand why we experience day/night, etc. 

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Johnny5 said:

It IS a trick... Red is no more red than pain is pain. Ask Ralston...

This is a creation of distinctions. What is there prior to the creation of the distinction that red is more red than pain is pain? If awareness can go prior to the creation of the distinction, it can observe how the mind creates the distinction. 

[Gesundheit]

Feeling grateful now.

Direct experience is partial. It's less than 0.00000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001% of truth (got tired of typing zeros lol).

Only truth exists, but you don't necessarily have to experience it for it to exist. A tree falling in the forest without anyone there to witness that, makes a sound.

Reality is non-dual, direct experience + thoughts. And only one set of thoughts is necessarily true. It cannot be otherwise.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Gesundheit

[Carl-Richard]

@Gesundheit If it's not direct experience, it's not truth.

[Gesundheit]

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

@Gesundheit If it's not direct experience, it's not truth.

Not true. And according to your statement itself, it automatically becomes "not truth" because it's just a meaningless statement, so how are you attributing trueness to it?

[Dino D]

I asked this before...

what if I'm crazy and experience a pink elephant that fuck my ear...

is this truth, red is red, elephant is elephant...?

we dont even know what we experience, the experience of nothing or of enlightenment is maybe not at all what it is, and the (non) attributes that is has in our understanding of that experience/inside/seeing are maybe still just a brains/chemical play

[Gesundheit]

4 minutes ago, Dino D said:

I asked this before...

what if I'm crazy and experience a pink elephant that fuck my ear...

is this truth, red is red, elephant is elephant...?

we dont even know what we experience, the experience of nothing or of enlightenment is maybe not at all what it is, and the (non) attributes that is has in our understanding of that experience/inside/seeing are maybe still just a brains/chemical play

Absolute truth is not an experience. It is the totality of everything-ness. You don't recognize it from experience but from reading between the lines not the lines, and from the context not the content.

[peachboy]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit said:

Only truth exists, but you don't necessarily have to experience it for it to exist. A tree falling in the forest without anyone there to witness that, makes a sound.

 

Surely you mean makes no sound?

[Someone here]

@Dino D two questions.. Think about this.. 

1 - are night-time dreams real or unreal? 

2- if it turns out your whole life as you know was literally just a dream..does that mean your life NOW is unreal? .. Or is it still real? 

[Gesundheit]

Just now, peachboy said:

Surely you mean makes no sound?

Nope. No mistake.

[peachboy]

Just now, Gesundheit said:

Nope. No mistake.

Err..

If a tree falls in a forest and there's nothing to observe it then how can it make a sound?

There is no sound without awareness.

[Forestluv]

2 hours ago, Dino D said:

I asked this before...

what if I'm crazy and experience a pink elephant that fuck my ear...

is this truth, red is red, elephant is elephant...?

This gets into what is real (true) and what is imaginary (not true).

Notice how we create constructs of what is real and what is imaginary. What comes ‘prior’ to those distinctions?

Imagine you are dreaming. Within that dream, it is prior to your analysis of what counts as “real” vs “imaginary”. When you wake up, you might be disoriented and start trying to figure out what is “real” and “imaginary”. The mind may think “Oh, that was just a dream, it wasn’t real. I’m in the real world now. I better get to work”. Those distinctions have practical value for the survival of the organism, yet they are distinctions the mind creates.

Color is also an interesting example. From one perspective, colors don’t exist. There are only colorless, wavelengths of light that the mind converts into a subjective perception of color. Colors are hallucinations that the mind makes up, colors actually don’t exist. Yet from another perspective, colors exist. Just look around! Duh, it’s so obvious there are colors! 

Colors are both imaginary and real. We create those distinctions. It’s like having a magic wand!

[Leo Gura]

The shocker is, not only is there no sound, there is not even a forest unless you are aware of it.

[Carl-Richard]

2 hours ago, Gesundheit said:

Not true. And according to your statement itself, it automatically becomes "not truth" because it's just a meaningless statement, so how are you attributing trueness to it?

That, my friend, is called the relative/absolute fallacy: conflating relative truths with absolute truth. Only Absolute Truth itself is absolutely true, but you can conceptualize and communicate it using language, and then it is being re-contextualized as a relative truth. Only direct experience itself is Absolute Truth, and it can therefore never be directly spoken of, only pointed to.

Edited August 30, 2020 by Carl-Richard

[Farnaby]

@Leo Gura what if other people are in that forest? It certainly exists in their awareness. 

[Farnaby]

@Meta-Man I see. We'll have to disagree on that one lol

[kireet]

Just Asking , dont you guys think that the so called lunatics are more conscious than us  in the sense that they are aware of dimensions that we are not?