Leo Gura

Objections To Spirituality Mega-Thread

198 posts in this topic

I want your help.

As I do research for my book, I want to gather a potent collection of objections to spirituality, nonduality, enlightenment, mysticism, the paranormal, etc.

I want legit objections that newbies and skeptics commonly have in this work.

Here are some examples to get you thinking along the right lines:

  • How can you trust that a subjective experience reveals Absolute Truth?
  • Isn't awakening just a subjective brain phenomenon?
  • Could awakening be a self-deception?
  • Is it possible that there's something beyond Absolute Truth which you could be missing?
  • How is awakening different from solipsism?
  • How is awakening different from nihilism?
  • How is awakening different from pantheism?
  • Why do awakened people still commit evil acts like sexually abusing their students?
  • If God is real, why would God hide himself from people? Why isn't God evident to all people in the same way that the sun is?
  • If awakening is true, why do all the religions disagree so much?
  • You say reality is infinite, but doesn't quantum mechanics say there is a fundamental lower limit to space known as the Planck Length?
  • Why is love, beauty, goodness, and intelligence a fundamental property of the universe but hate, ugliness, evil, and stupidity are not?
  • If God is so loving why would he allow so much evil in the world like rape, torture, genocide, war, etc?
  • How can you trust psychedelics reveal valid truths and aren't just subjective hallucinations?
  • If science is as wrong about the fundamental metaphysics of reality as you say, how come it's so successful at manipulating reality?
  • Why couldn't there be more than one God?
  • If physical reality is imaginary, why can't I imagine a million dollars into my bank account or imagine away a physical illness?
  • If what you say is true, how come serious scientists aren't talking about it? Where is your Nobel prize?

I want stuff like that in this thread.

Note: I won't necessarily resolve your objections in this thread. I'm simply trying to gather a solid list of them.

Please formulate your question/objection clearly and concisely.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Posted (edited)

Why do spiritually advanced people still get cancer and sickness?

How does one prove spiritual experiences is not just a phenomenon from mental illness like schizophrenia?

If siddhis and ghosts (the paranormal) exist, why isnt there scientific proof of them?

 

Edited by moon777light

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- why isn’t spirituality taught in main stream education 

- why can’t consciousness be measured by physical instruments 

- isnt awakening just a mental illness 

- aren’t you just trying to be something you are not aka god 

- if god is all around us, why can I not see it 

- how can you comment on something that can not be proved 

- isn’t awakening just a thought itself causing delusion 

- isn’t awakening just a visual hallucination 

- if you say I am god, then why can’t I create anything I want to 

- reality is set how it is, how can my reality be wrong especially when 99% of people agree with me 

- why can I not put my hand through a wall if it’s imaginary 

- isn’t spirituality just a new concept developed in the past 50 years or so 

 

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If a Truth exists then why I don't see it right in front of me? 

If there is a "matrix" why am I not simply aware of it? 

Why there are steps to "realization"?

Why is it that "Good always wins"?

Why do you say imagination is real?

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My biggest objection is:

Spirituality implies there is a non-spirituality, but since spirituality is all-encompassing, how can this be? How can we distinguish something as spiritual when everything is spiritual? 

Point me to something that's not spirituality, and then I will believe that there can be such a thing as spirituality.


How to get to infinity? Divide by zero.

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If God is omnipotent and omniscient, why is the reality we inhabit filled with suffering?

I know the answer is because of ignorance (or some would say the illusion of ignorance), but why is there illusion at all? 

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If there is no physical reality why do all the processes of live and of the universe keep unfolding whether there is awarness of them or not?

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Posted (edited)

Why did God subject himself to (fake) suffering while he could have created realities where he is constantly on an MDMA-like high?

(By the way, I know the answer but I'd like your take on it.)

Edited by DrMobius

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If my awarness is the same as your awarness how come I don’t see what you are seeing? If there was only one conciousness that conciousness would be aware of all experiences that are happening right now. I go to sleep and wake up and always see the same human being and the same for you so my awarness must be individual and not universal. 

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I get that awareness is the only thing one can know exists. But how could one be CERTAIN it is the only thing witch exists, that it for example is not the result of some other process?

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How come our default is unconsciousness?

How can you tell which teachers speak the dharma vs bullshit? 

How can you believe in something like reincarnation with absolutely zero proof?

Why should I start the journey when I know it’s insanely difficult and only a fraction of a  minority actually reach the levels you discuss? 

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, outlandish said:

My biggest objection is:

Spirituality implies there is a non-spirituality, but since spirituality is all-encompassing, how can this be? How can we distinguish something as spiritual when everything is spiritual? 

Point me to something that's not spirituality, and then I will believe that there can be such a thing as spirituality.

This is simply the dualistic nature of language & distinction.

See my 3 part series about Understanding Duality, where stuff like this was resolved in great detail.

"Spirituality" is used in two senses: relative and absolute. In the absolute sense, everything is Spirit. But in the relative sense we make a distinction between those who are conscious of Spirit and those who are not (the materialists). So even though a materialistic scientist is studying Spirit in this lab when he is doing his chemistry experiments, he isn't conscious that chemicals are Spirit. And so we say he isn't being spiritual. He has mistaken Spirit for matter.

It is like that man who mistook a coiled rope in a dimly lit room for a snake.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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Wheres the line separating non-duality and psychosis

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How can one be sure when the body dies it's not "Lights out-end of story"

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"Metaphysics is just theory with no practical implication"

"Science didnt prove that so..."

"Pseudoscience bullshit"

 

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How can meditation techniques and DMT wake you up, if according to adviata vedanta/Leoism, they are imaginary/illusory

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1 hour ago, Rodrigo SIlva said:

If my awarness is the same as your awarness how come I don’t see what you are seeing? If there was only one conciousness that conciousness would be aware of all experiences that are happening right now. I go to sleep and wake up and always see the same human being and the same for you so my awarness must be individual and not universal. 

on top of that, how are you sure other people are conscious and not a philosophical zombie, if you are not experiencing their POV right now?

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Why should I take you seriously if too much of what you say can only be verified with experiments that are highly grounded on subjectivity?


unborn Truth

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If All is One , why can't I experience your point of view rather than being stuck in mine?

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How do you know what happens after death if you haven't physically died yet?

If "you" don't exist, why is your consciousness "glued" to you?

if what you say is true can you prove it to me with some "objective" method?

How can you get any truthful insight by looking at a wall?

Where do those "truths" come from? is this some sort of 6th sense?

Why should I even care about spirituality? How will it help me?

Aren't you justifying your religious beliefs here?

Are psychedelics safe enough for >50 trips?

Are trip insights as good as the sober ones?

Aren't you just making this all up?

I am the sum of my memories and experiences so my memories prove I exist from direct experience! Aren't you contradicting yourself then?

 

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