AncestorOfAisle6

The Controversial Guru Who Wants to 'Upgrade Civilization'

63 posts in this topic

@Leo Gura I don't defend him cause  I realize how much  deceptive ego is. But with present media opportunieties cults will be disclosed what a such sugestion lays in above video. So the more gurus nowadays in 'western society' the better for widespreading awareness.

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23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@AncestorOfAisle6 Yes, we know of him. He seems quite culty (although also genuinely enlightened). Not much new under the sun.

 

 

Think your definition of enlightened is off.

Enlightenment should be black or white, 

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@joeyi99

In practice no leader is perfect. Many of them have secret hidden shadow sides which you don't see in public.

 

Thats why the people you have studied didn't perfect their Dharma.

I would say Ramana Maharshi had no imperfections. As a Sadhu he followed his Dharma perfectly. 

So too many other people who are  actually enlightened. 

The definition of enlightenment should include perfection. Hence why saying Bentinho is enlightened is incorrect, although he may be 'closer' to it than others. 

Someone who is Enlightened lives his life 'automatically' there is no choice, it is Perfect- no room for hidden shadow sides what so ever!

 

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42 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Enlightenment should be black or white

Should be, but it isn't. We live in the real world, not some Buddhist fantasy.

Quote

The definition of enlightenment should include perfection. Hence why saying Bentinho is enlightened is incorrect, although he may be 'closer' to it than others. 

Someone who is Enlightened lives his life 'automatically' there is no choice, it is Perfect- no room for hidden shadow sides what so ever!

This is a very dangerous misconception. By equating enlightenment with moral perfection and an impossiblity of shadow, you set yourself up to be a great Zen Devil, full of much shadow. Because once your enlightenment happens, you'll still have a TON of shadow issues left unresolved, but your fantasy of perfection will force you to deny this fact and so you will suppress these shadow issues even deeper, doubling the size of your shadow and become a half-enlightened devil.

Even the greatest most enlightened masters have shadows and pathologies.

Don't be a fool. Nothing in this work is automatic.

You have no idea what imperfections Ramana Maharshi had. You just have a fantasy of him in your mind. It's easy to appear to have no imperfections when living one's entire life in a cave. The real test comes when you live an active life, where you have leadership obligations, duties, money, fame, sex, luxury, family, children, business, politics, and other things to deal with. When a hot girl with big tits comes and rubs them on you, let's see how long your enlightenment lasts.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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18 hours ago, joeyi99 said:

We have someone to model.  

Really?  Why not be the model?  You can already be the model of being you.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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6 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Should be, but it isn't. We live in the real world, not some Buddhist fantasy.

This is a very dangerous misconception. By equating enlightenment with moral perfection and an impossiblity of shadow, you set yourself up to be a great Zen Devil, full of much shadow. Because once your enlightenment happens, you'll still have a TON of shadow issues left unresolved, but your fantasy of perfection will force you to deny this fact and so you will suppress these shadow issues even deeper, doubling the size of your shadow and become a half-enlightened devil.

Even the greatest most enlightened masters have shadows and pathologies.

Don't be a fool. Nothing in this work is automatic.

You have no idea what imperfections Ramana Maharshi had. You just have a fantasy of him in your mind.


I believe you haven't understood Dharma and its meaning. You can be a king in the real world and be Enlightened and have no shadow issues. 

Enlightenment cant happen if there are shadow issues, thats the whole idea. Thats the only reason to pursue enlightenment in the first instance, to 100% eradicate all issues.

If you believe that cant be done then we have different ideas of enlightenment. 

In regards to the Fantasy of Ramana Maharshi, yes its true. But its the only Fantasy that I want to have. That Faith is driving the practice and will eventually lead to Enlightenment. 

 

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22 minutes ago, Garuda said:

Enlightenment cant happen if there are shadow issues, thats the whole idea.

I would frame this differently as follows: If you have unconscious shadow issues operating, that can function like a block to your Path.  Ditto for what I call "supershadow issues", which is where you don't even see your own Ego-Mind accurately let alone your own shadow issues.

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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Obviously shadow issues aren’t a part of enlightenment..:no matter how deep, they are of an identification

perfection/imperfection distinctions of the mind and have no relevance to awareness/being/true self

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@Garuda You are not hearing what I telling you. Your Buddhist Dhrama fantasies are wrong.

Enlightenment will not even come close to eradicating all issues.

You are already well on your way to developing a massive enlightened shadow.

An entire book could be written on post-enlightenment shadow issues and pathologies.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

And entire book could be written on post-enlightenment shadow issues and pathologies.

I agree, but I probably would not say post-Enlightenment.  Post-Enlightenment is another one of those dubious terms.  That’s not to say it never applies, I’m sure there are applicable instances.  

Edited by Joseph Maynor

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9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda You are not hearing what I telling you. Your Buddhist Dhrama fantasies are wrong.

Enlightenment will not even come close to eradicating all issues.

You are already well on your way to developing a massive enlightened shadow.

An entire book could be written on post-enlightenment shadow issues and pathologies.

I hear you loud and clear!

Who said anything about Buddhist Dharma? The meaning of Dharma was well established before Buddhism. 

Regardless, we just have different opinions. 

You see me as if I'm chasing something that doesn't exist. While I see you as not having a clear definition of enlightenment. 

Surrender is another word for enlightenment. And you cant surrender to something that inst perfect and has shadow issues. 

Enlightenment is what it is. There is no room for anything that is not perfect hence I used the word automatic. 

None the less its all just opinions in the end since we are not enlightened. 

Lets just put the work in and see what happens, and if it turns out that I spent the rest of my life spinning my wheels chasing something that doesn't exist then so be it......

 

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3 hours ago, Garuda said:

and if it turns out that I spent the rest of my life spinning my wheels chasing something that doesn't exist then so be it......

 

So you're one of those guys who purely enjoys fapping without cumming, huh? Interesting... 🤔


If mental gymnastics were an olympic discipline, you'd be the undisputed champion. 🏆

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So whats the answer then? if you have an enlightened leader who wants to upgrade consciousness assuming he doesnt give in to devilry, he will get followers that after he has gone could use his words for their lower consciousness desires and drives just with the leaders name attached, which obviously has been happening for thousands of years. So what can be done about raising consciousness? It seems this situation will always tip into a cult either pushed by the leader or followers, so is it better to take the solo path rather than follow someone? 

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@Consept If you really want to get anywhere, then yes, you have to go alone one way or the other. 

It's a somewhat tricky situation if the "leader's" livelihood depends on it, but essentially true spirituality is the most unattractive thing one could ever go for and hence, should also be portrayed as such to those who may think that they really want it. 


If mental gymnastics were an olympic discipline, you'd be the undisputed champion. 🏆

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On ‎15‎/‎02‎/‎2019 at 0:47 AM, Serotoninluv said:

I watched several of his enlightenment course video and I get the sense he has had Turquoise-level awakening experiences and insights. Yet I also get the sense he is still maturing. Turquoise can be expressed differently through different mind-bodies. Especially if there is some orange/green residue mixed in. Lately, I've been getting in tune with Turquoise devilry. There is much more going on in Turquoise than I imagined. It's a whole nother world where few humans reside. Yet those that do and walk the earth have different forms.

Serotonin, can I ask a personal question; do you think I have anything of worth to teach; if any number bigger than one is just money and a coin has two sides what is the point;

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@Garuda You're still not getting it.

Enlightenment is not emotional mastery nor development. You can be genuinely enlightened and a racist or sexist, for example.

4 hours ago, Consept said:

So whats the answer then?

The answer is to tread carefully and not build cult-like organizational structures and to stress an integral, dogma-free approach.

The answer is also to not get ahead of your skiis, to maintain high personal integrity and to not lust after power, sex, money, fame, or success.

The answer is to do shadow work even after awakening and to be sensitive to the collateral damage you cause. And to not go on a crusade.


"Be melting snow. Wash yourself of yourself." -- Rumi

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On 2/15/2019 at 7:13 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

 

You have no idea what imperfections Ramana Maharshi had. You just have a fantasy of him in your mind. It's easy to appear to have no imperfections when living one's entire life in a cave. The real test comes when you live an active life, where you have leadership obligations, duties, money, fame, sex, luxury, family, children, business, politics, and other things to deal with. When a hot girl with big tits comes and rubs them on you, let's see how long your enlightenment lasts.

 

 

IMG_5467.PNG

Edited by Emotionalmosquito
Cropped

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@Leo Gura I follow your responds for a long time. U have mentioned about shadow work a lot of times. But we have not seen any videos from you regarding this topic. It will be very helpful for us if u could release a video on this topic.

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20 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Garuda You're still not getting it.

Enlightenment is not emotional mastery nor development. You can be genuinely enlightened and a racist or sexist, for example.

The answer is to tread carefully and not build cult-like organizational structures and to stress an integral, dogma-free approach.

The answer is also to not get ahead of your skiis, to maintain high personal integrity and to not lust after power, sex, money, fame, or success.

The answer is to do shadow work even after awakening and to be sensitive to the collateral damage you cause. And to not go on a crusade.

Leo reading your posts in this thread, it seems unwise to discuss Enlightenment and 'development' in the same topic in the first place.

Enlightenment is supposed to be the cure of all cures. It cures the dream by waking up from the dream.

Now the racism, sexism, closemindedness etc that you mention, aren't they purely cultural/historical things? It seems like we always love to assume our present moral standard as some ideal version of reality. I mean where do we draw the line here?

Sexism, xenophobia etc. was the norm and ''unspoken law'' back then. Now they sound 'criminal', 'undeveloped', 'barbaric' compared to 21st century visions. Let's say 100 years from now, the world will have moral and institutional laws about how we must not abuse ants. They might look upon us as unenlightened barbarians who didn't care for ants (silly example I know, but you never know what sort of weird shit is coming).

So this whole post-enlightenment development thing, isn't it a very loose, culturally bound term?

Enlightenment is real and an actual 'thing' with actual definition which points to something actual and transcends everything.

This post-enlightenment or shadow business, it really has nothing to do with enlightenment. It is to be done by anyone and everyone who wants to be in the front row in the visions and moral standard of their day and age. It is literally not any different than learning to earn 10 million dollars. It's a 'gain' that one should be able to learn about, work towards that conceptual goal and attain it for him/her.

I mean In the days of the Buddha, the women's right, LGBTQ etc wasn't even on the radar lol

Edited by Preetom

I am a deluded fool                                                               I want women, gold, fame

I am                                                                                          I want    

I                                                                                                 I

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@Preetom If awareness arises that a mind-body is playing the character of a villain, why assume the mind-body will stop playing that character?

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22 minutes ago, Serotoninluv said:

@Preetom If awareness arises that a mind-body is playing the character of a villain, why assume the mind-body will stop playing that character?

After actual enlightenment (not the new age bullshit one where everyone is already enlightened), there is no thinker of thoughts and no doer of actions. The body-mind gets progressively purified by this truth realization according to it's karma in it's own pace.

Just like before enlightenment, awareness seemed to take on the finite qualities of the body-mind; after enlightenment that role shifts. The body-mind starts to get permeated with the infiniteness of awareness.

Now this process may or may not look like 'development' to onlookers. But this is not something the body-mind 'does' as an agent or ego.

Ratnakara was the most notorious bandit of his time. Through sadhana he realized the Self, reemerged as the sage Valmiki and wrote the epic Ramayana. A villain is never villain forever.

Any judgement we make on an enlightened being(or anyone for that matter) is our own deluded projection.

Edited by Preetom

I am a deluded fool                                                               I want women, gold, fame

I am                                                                                          I want    

I                                                                                                 I

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