Am I Finally Ready To Let Go of Dating?

[questionreality]

2 hours ago, Emerald said:

That's not anything close to what my argument is. Re-read what I wrote.

Leo is definitely talented in the department of consciousness and intellect compared to most.

I am also talented in this way. So, are many on this forum. (Though most people on this forum do also have major blindspots that the average person doesn't have, because of the issues that I highlighted)

And it's not inherently an issue to acknowledge people's talents/skills on a practical level, as human specialization works that way.

The issue is believing that this particular human specialization that Leo has (and many in his audience have) is fundamentally different and superior to other human specializations... and looking down on others who don't possess this specialization and calling them chimps.

It would be like a bunch of plumbers getting together and operating under the notion that plumbing is the most important specialization. Then, they call all non-plumbers chimps.

The issue is the ego inflation and placing arbitrary hierarchies regarding human specializations on top of reality to justify and maintain that ego inflation.

So, sure... Leo is relatively talented/skilled with consciousness and intellect. But it's unwise to create an identity out of it and view other people through that lens... as it creates disconnection.

Like, I remember when my son was in 4th grade, he started getting some of the same kinds of ideas.

He'd heard online that other Gen Alphas are uniquely stupid compared to other generations on some random YouTube Short. (Of course, that's always been said about every generation of young people)

So, he started thinking of himself as the exception to the rule, and like a uniquely non-stupid Gen Alpha kid. So, I had to sit him down to talk to him about it and dispossess him of the notion that Gen Alphas are all uniquely stupid... as it was creating difficulties with socializing with peers... and creating shame about being his own age. (Similar to how people who view themselves as better than other humans can develop shame about being a regular human being)

Though he was always trying to hang out with his older sister's teenage friends... who were nice to him. But he couldn't get a true peer relationship with them.

Then, the next year over he was able to let go of that superior identity of being "the only non-stupid kid" (similar to "the rare conscious person among chimps"). And that enabled him to make some friends who were on the same wavelength. 

And I see this same pattern playing out all the time on this forum.

So, I'm content to have the same kind of conversation with Leo and anyone else who's caught up in that kind of pattern... as it's just not good to be caught in that trap.

@Emerald I know we’ve disagreed in the past on a different topic, but it’s genuinely been a pleasure reading the gold you’ve been posting here. You’ve articulated the truth with remarkable eloquence and delicacy, putting into words an observation that I think is shared by many people who have spent enough time on this forum and paid attention to the same patterns. 

It's remarkable to me that there are people who say that they "been doing this work" for many years and yet can't spot the obvious pattern that seems to be lying on the surface.

[Alexop]

45 minutes ago, questionreality said:

@Emerald I know we’ve disagreed in the past on a different topic, but it’s genuinely been a pleasure reading the gold you’ve been posting here. You’ve articulated the truth with remarkable eloquence and delicacy, putting into words an observation that I think is shared by many people who have spent enough time on this forum and paid attention to the same patterns. 

It's remarkable to me that there are people who say that they "been doing this work" for many years and yet can't spot the obvious pattern that seems to be lying on the surface.

What patterns can't they spot?

Not to be rude, but a bit rude should one be here because we are here to develop and become better not just treating each other like we are children.... What exactly is so "gold" here: ??

Quote

The issue is believing that this particular human specialization that Leo has (and many in his audience have) is fundamentally different and superior to other human specializations... and looking down on others who don't possess this specialization and calling them chimps.

She has to understand that consciousness is something else, it is not the same as say: being good at drawing or whatever simple task. The difference between learning some skill inside the dream and becoming aware that you are in a dream 😊

This is why raising consciousness is among hardest things one can do in life. This is why we can send a man to the moon but cannot solve apparently simple tasks as corruption in our systems and of course Inside each of us. 

 

Edited 10 hours ago by Alexop

[Thought Art]

7 hours ago, Emerald said:

That's not what I'm claiming. Differentiation in quality and ability exists.

.

Ooo ooo aaa aaa. Ooo ooo aa aaa.

[Thought Art]

@Emerald Do you think hierarchy can exist without being about power, better or worse, ego striving? For example a worm vs a pig? Sure they are both equally animals. But perhaps the genetics of the pig lets it access more of consciousness than a worm who only requires basic functions. A worm doesn’t even have eyes. 
 

What if a clear observation is made that some humans are more educated than others? Couldn’t they be more conscious too?

Edited 9 hours ago by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

Here is an example of why I think I am more conscious than chimps/ apes. 🦧 
 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Dbx_B1HMUfP/?stkn=MWdsOWtpYTZzeGwz

[meta_male]

4 hours ago, Jirh said:

It's clear to me that he thinks high consciousness is the highest and best virtue that no other virtues exist or have significant value in comparison.

To be fair, after reading through the whole thread, I think he just wanted to share his struggles, get some sympathy and clarity, rather than necessarily having a problem solved right away.

[pablo_aka_god]

@LordFall you mentioned somewhere in this long ass thread that you are deliberately taking a 3 year break from dating to improve your condition. this resonated with me since I've been doing it this year. How is it working for you?

[Joshe]

2 hours ago, Thought Art said:

@Emerald Do you think hierarchy can exist without being about power, better or worse, ego striving? For example a worm vs a pig? Sure they are both equally animals. But perhaps the genetics of the pig lets it access more of consciousness than a worm who only requires basic functions. A worm doesn’t even have eyes. 
 

What if a clear observation is made that some humans are more educated than others? Couldn’t they be more conscious too?

The issue is that some people are prone to continually invoking the hierarchy so they can make their position in it known. The more that occurs, the more it becomes obvious they are not merely asserting the facts, but blindly using the hierarchy in a way that elevates themselves over others for some unconscious reason. It indicates weakness and immaturity.

Simply notice how often someone invokes a hierarchy and implies their position in it relative to others. And then ask, wtf is this, and why is it a common theme with this person? 

It’s ironic that these ‘high conscious’ folk are not conscious of what this behavior is doing for them. If they knew, they’d stop. And frankly, it’s weird how many people seem to have blinders on with regard to this. 

Edited 6 hours ago by Joshe

[Olaf]

@Thought Art how is that not conscious? I thought you did that everyday as your meditation 

[Xonas Pitfall]

16 minutes ago, Joshe said:

The issue is that some people are prone to continually invoking the hierarchy so they can make their position in it known. The more that occurs, the more it becomes obvious they are not merely asserting the facts, but blindly using the hierarchy in a way that elevates themselves over others for some unconscious reason. It indicates weakness and immaturity.

Exactly. And it fits nicely into this thread too.

The issue with defining yourself as “the highest value” or placing yourself somewhere at the top of a hierarchy is that it can become an incredibly convenient tool for the ego. Suddenly, all of your desires can be justified, no matter how idealistic they are, whether you have actually put in the work required to achieve them, or whether you are realistically capable of getting them at all. You can start believing that you simply should have these things, that you ultimately deserve them, and that your frustration at not having them is therefore justified.

Take looksmaxxing, for example. Someone might place an extremely high emphasis on physical appearance and construct an entire ranking system around looks, deciding that looks are the #1 factor in dating. Once they have convinced themselves that they rank highly according to that system, they can then justify believing that they deserve someone “on their level or above,” even if their relationship skills are poor, their personality is incompatible with others, or their charisma and social skills are lacking. They have subjectively defined one dimension as the most important one, and then use that hierarchy to justify what they believe they deserve.

The same thing can happen with pickup or charisma. If you convince yourself that you have developed into an exceptionally charismatic person, you might start believing that only the top percentage of women should be available to you, and that you therefore have every right to be dissatisfied when you do not get those outcomes. Your self-defined status becomes the justification for your expectations. You might define yourself as being so “high value” that you deserve multiple partners, and that they should all be happy and grateful simply to have been allowed to be with you.

It can become even more complicated when you have actually dated someone for a few days, weeks, or months and then unconsciously turn that experience into your new standard. You might think, “I was able to get someone like that once, so that must be what I deserve.” But there may have been countless factors that made that particular relationship work, and there may also have been major incompatibilities between you and that person. The fact that something happened once does not necessarily mean that it represents your objective “level” or what you are entitled to have consistently.

Then the ego can start building an idealized future around this. You begin constructing a kind of “build-a-bear” version of your future partner, where they need to be in the top percentage for looks, the top percentage according to your definition of spirituality, highly intelligent according to your standards, highly charismatic, and so on. And then you think you are justified in wanting all of this, and you are shocked when you do not get it, because you have defined a subjective hierarchy of what you are and where you rank within it. Not to mention that people will often overestimate where they actually rank in the first place.

Again, there is nothing inherently wrong with wanting whatever you want in life. You are allowed to have extremely high standards and extremely ambitious desires.

You can want whatever you want. But wanting something while refusing to confront the reality required to have it is often just wishful thinking.

And in that sense, it can be almost the opposite of spirituality, because spirituality requires confronting the truth of yourself, your ego, your desires, and the reality surrounding them rather than selectively filtering reality to preserve the image you want to have of yourself.

Edited 6 hours ago by Xonas Pitfall

[CARDOZZO]

The forum is a pure distraction from the work. You already know what you want, just go for it.

[Emerald]

9 hours ago, Joseph Maynor said:

@Emerald  The issue to me is the problem of the duality of the relative vs. The Absolute.  Seems like a lot of people see others operating from the relative and can point that out, but then have a blind spot about their own relative perspective -- i.e., they kinda sidestep that and assume they have access to The Absolute without any bias.  

Yes, that's one of the main issues.

Even operating off the notion that there is a higher consciousness over lower consciousness... is to be operating from a relativistic perspective.

And because this relative perspective is being conflated with the absolute perspective.... it creates a trap where the person gets stuck in the relative because of ego-attachments to superiority, while believing that they're operating from a higher conscious place.

But in the absolute, the consciousness of the chimp and the enlightened guru are one and the same. And there is no hierarchy there, from that perspective.

It's all just different iterations of the same consciousness.

So, that's why it's important to not get too bogged down in identities of being "Higher consciousness" and judging others as lower consciousness.

It's all relative anyway. 

[Sandhu]

12 hours ago, Emerald said:

As long as you're just focusing on hierarchy in the most practical way, that's fine.

There are specialists that are better and worse at their respective crafts. And I certainly value excellence in my craft. 

However, my impression is that you tend to be quite attached to identities of being "the more conscious one"... or even just "the different one... who's different than the chimp-humans."

And I notice that you can tend to project hierarchy in a more existential sense... rather than just in a practical sense. And that tendency may run in opposition to your goals.

God Realization is superior to every other humanly pursuit. Because you cease be a human so it's not even comparable 

[Sandhu]

23 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are being too humble. Untruthfully humble.

Some more arrogance would straighten you out.

The fact that people are completely misunderstanding this statement is astonishing to me. I believe their is a predisposed limit to understanding reality which is almost impossible to change. This prompts the question how much impact Leo's teachings can really have😐

[Emerald]

2 hours ago, Sandhu said:

God Realization is superior to every other humanly pursuit. Because you cease be a human so it's not even comparable 

God itself doesn't seem to think so... at least not from my experience. What I experienced in my medicine journey is that it loves all games.

I'm sure that it just as infinitely loves iterating as a sea barnacle as it does also infinitely love being some guru on a mountain top.

But all of those are just story characters.

[eos_nyxia]

16 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You are far more conscious than a chimp.

The fact that you do not understand that, is disturbing.

Your model of consciousness is missing something huge.

Approaching non-human consciousness in a non-hierarchical way is absolutely essential for understanding them wholly, because you must also understand them on their own terms in order to really understand them. As much as it is humanly possible. (Or alternatively, to temporarily strip one's humanity through various means, but then you still have to account for how you interpret raw data afterward.) 

This is true even more than for understanding why people do what they do, what it is like to be other people, etc.  

Judgement is a separate, optional feature, ideally it serves very specific, precise functions, like the one would use a specific tool for a specific purpose. (Personally I think of it metaphorically like a sharp, cutting edge, like a needle or sword, and not like a hammer where you go around bashing everything like it's a nail.) 

If anyone wants to be humbled, any kind of direct experience of what it's like to be another, non-human being ought to teach you. And if all you take away from a "lesser" being is that they are lower on the totem pole, that is.... not a very rich view of reality. And limits so much of what we can learn from other species and beings. And... the tool with what you use to measure others is most often what you cannot avoid measuring yourself by, and it easily becomes a weapon used against yourself. 

A species "higher" on the totem pole would do the same for us if it wished to understand us. 

Edited 35 minutes ago by eos_nyxia