I want to have sex with a girl this week

[Olaf]

@Ulax

[Inliytened1]

@JosheI see you here. We can't make this shit up. This is classic shit.  Let's teach these boys.  I know you aren't quite as old as me 40's is good. You been there bro.

 

Edited Monday at 11:59 PM by Inliytened1

[Natasha Tori Maru]

2 hours ago, something_else said:

See I would interpret both of these as playful teasing or a direct insult entirely depending on her energy, and act based on that.

If it’s playful teasing I’ll roll with the punches, if it’s a direct insult then I would just laugh and walk away.

The concept of a shit test is meaningless precisely because if it is a real concept and a girl uses one, I don’t want to continue the conversation anyway. My time is better spent elsewhere with girls like 95% of girls I’ve hooked up with or dated in my life, who didn’t do this.

I find that even having the idea of looking and labelling something a shit test conducive to poor social dynamics - just personally.

Would take me right out of the moment and into analysis. Never good.

Edited Tuesday at 01:15 AM by Natasha Tori Maru

[Olaf]

@Natasha Tori Maru That is why you don´t practice it in the field, like you practice this stuff at home so you don´t think about it when you approach someone. Or after you have approached and you come home, you can think about how you could have come up with something better.

[Natasha Tori Maru]

34 minutes ago, Olaf said:

@Natasha Tori Maru That is why you don´t practice it in the field, like you practice this stuff at home so you don´t think about it when you approach someone. Or after you have approached and you come home, you can think about how you could have come up with something better.

Reflection 😁

[something_else]

4 hours ago, Natasha Tori Maru said:

I find that even having the idea of looking and labelling something a shit test conducive to poor social dynamics - just personally.

Would take me right out of the moment and into analysis. Never good.

I agree. I think it has some narrow scope of value for people who have really underdeveloped social skills and need a step-by-step instruction booklet on how to flirt or banter. Beyond that it seems really bizarre and unhelpful to me.

Again, I also come from a country where giving people shit is how you make friends most of the time, so maybe that contributes to my opinion on this being a dumb concept.

[Miguel1]

As a man, I test the girls all the time.

I call it piss testing.

Where I see how immature they are. I’m not even kidding.

Edited Tuesday at 06:30 AM by Miguel1

[PsychedelicEagle]

11 hours ago, something_else said:

My approach to dating or chatting to girls has always just been to talk to them like human beings, be playful, be flirty, and politely accept rejection if it happens. I know deep down that if one girl doesn't like me it isn't a reflection on me as a whole and another girl will. This approach has worked well for me so far.

I think that's a good & healthy approach.

11 hours ago, something_else said:

If we exclude playfulness, how do you distinguish a "shit test" from genuine criticism, rudeness or rejection? If you can't, you're potentially teaching guys to interpret "fuck off" as a test they're supposed to pass because actually "'fuck off' is a shit test and really, deep down she actually likes you". Which is a bit rapey, and not something we should be teaching guys.

In my mind: you don't try to distinguish. You just act from first principles. You know what respectful behavior for you means and you act in accordance to that. That's why having a principled approach to life is important. If she crosses a boundary, you enforce the boundary and walk away. If she comes after and changes her behavior, that demonstrates her interest (and that it was a shit test). You should not be running after the girl after she exhibits any behavior that resembles rejection.

If the guy's goal is to get the girl regardless of her behavior he's already lost. And from that place he can exhibit rapey behavior, yes. So again, the importance of principles in one's modus operandi.

If she comes back after the shit test then you know it was indeed a shit test and not real rejection. Hard to know until then, and one should not be chasing the girl in either way. However, being aware that such types of "shit testing" can occur helps the guy knows what's possible and be prepared when she unexpectedly comes back after you enforced your boundaries. Which is why the distinction is helpful IME.

Edited Tuesday at 08:34 AM by PsychedelicEagle

[LordFall]

@Olaf The week is over my brother. I don't think you achieved the goal right? There are of course still many lessons to be learned from a failed quest. 

What are your biggest takeaways from the week? I haven't followed the whole thread beyond my initial contribution and answering some questions but I assume you took massive action this week and learned a lot. 

Edited Tuesday at 05:13 PM by LordFall

[Olaf]

@LordFall to never self reject, which is more then only closing, it is not rejecting yourself in the open aswell. The whole idea of the conversation is to close. Second biggest lesson is to write down what you are screening for aka qualifying. Just before you go out look at for the traits you want in a woman and write them down, then go out with the mindset that you go out there to qualify her for these things (not just looks). Last one is to aim bigger, don't aim for a number, aim for an instant date or to get laid. There are many smaller lessons, but these are the bigger ones that had the most impact. 

[Yimpa]

23 hours ago, Miguel1 said:

Thank you for asking Joy.

Some people in my personal life learned about me being in this forum, so I’m just protecting my privacy. I will put up a new updated picture later.

I love the work we do here but for a common folk (99% of people in my life), this can and probably is very threatening to the ego.

oh, gotcha. tanks for sharing! I respect your privacy ☺️

[Miguel1]

1 hour ago, Yimpa said:

oh, gotcha. tanks for sharing! I respect your privacy ☺️

🥰

[Hasson_Miah]

@LordFall So I kinda get what you are saying in the original post that the guy who works towards all these things, get's a relationship and then drops the exact thing that got him the relationship is doomed, because like what he was got him to where he is and if he let's off the gas it's disrespectful to his partner cause it's like dude you did this for me and now that you got me I ain't worth the continued effort anymore.

I guess building a personal brand whilst in a relationship I cannot relate to but in person yeah I relate to. With or without a relationship I'll be him. 

 

[Zenterus]

Bruh, the discourse here completely ill-defines what shit tests are.

Most shit tests are unconscious and are not exclusive to women. Men shit test too.

All a shit test is, is a a subconscious test of another person's confidence and self perceived social status. Everytime you meet someone new, you subconsciously shit test them and they test you back without you even being aware of it.

We all know a guy who no one fucks with and we all know another guy who is basically a clown. The difference between the first guy and the second is that the 1st conveyed dominance and strength when people around him playfully tested him and they quickly learned "oh, this guy isn't to be messed with," while the 2nd guy caved.

Something as simple as someone making a joke at your expense, or holding silent eye contact for a second too long, or showing up late to plans are shit tests and depending on how you respond to these determines your character and your social status in their eyes.

Very few people deliberately test you. It's all unconscious primal behaviour.

A girl I pulled on Saturday would constantly make little jokes about me not being a man because I don't have a driver's license, she would pretend to walk away from me after I disagreed with something she said and, even back at her place, kept saying that she doesn't like hooking up quickly with random guys and that she preferred if we just drank tea and then went to bed. I'm sure in her conscious mind she was being playful and sincere in those moments, but those were unconscious shit tests. If I didnt handle them the way I did, the girl would feel less attracted to me and wouldn't even know why. 

People do this to each other all the time. You have friends with which you're always on time when you have plans, and others who you're not. You know people that you wouldn't dare make a joke at their expense and others who you would. You know people who you respect more than others. The reason being is that when you first started getting to know each other, you subconsciously tested them and through their response you determined that they were high status individuals on a primal level. You tested their boundaries, their groundedness, their reactivity and frame control without you even being aware and they have proven to you, unconsciously, on a primal level, that they're to be respected.

Thats what a shit test is.

Edited 18 hours ago by Zenterus

[Olaf]

@Zenterus Yes this is very accurate, most of it is unconscious 

[something_else]

4 hours ago, Zenterus said:

Bruh, the discourse here completely ill-defines what shit tests are.

Most shit tests are unconscious and are not exclusive to women. Men shit test too.

All a shit test is, is a a subconscious test of another person's confidence and self perceived social status. Everytime you meet someone new, you subconsciously shit test them and they test you back without you even being aware of it.

We all know a guy who no one fucks with and we all know another guy who is basically a clown. The difference between the first guy and the second is that the 1st conveyed dominance and strength when people around him playfully tested him and they quickly learned "oh, this guy isn't to be messed with," while the 2nd guy caved.

Something as simple as someone making a joke at your expense, or holding silent eye contact for a second too long, or showing up late to plans are shit tests and depending on how you respond to these determines your character and your social status in their eyes.

Very few people deliberately test you. It's all unconscious primal behaviour.

A girl I pulled on Saturday would constantly make little jokes about me not being a man because I don't have a driver's license, she would pretend to walk away from me after I disagreed with something she said and, even back at her place, kept saying that she doesn't like hooking up quickly with random guys and that she preferred if we just drank tea and then went to bed. I'm sure in her conscious mind she was being playful and sincere in those moments, but those were unconscious shit tests. If I didnt handle them the way I did, the girl would feel less attracted to me and wouldn't even know why. 

People do this to each other all the time. You have friends with which you're always on time when you have plans, and others who you're not. You know people that you wouldn't dare make a joke at their expense and others who you would. You know people who you respect more than others. The reason being is that when you first started getting to know each other, you subconsciously tested them and through their response you determined that they were high status individuals on a primal level. You tested their boundaries, their groundedness, their reactivity and frame control without you even being aware and they have proven to you, unconsciously, on a primal level, that they're to be respected.

Thats what a shit test is.

I think this is a good explanation. I'm still not sure it convinces me that the concept of a 'shit test' is a useful one though.

Most of the time the expression of this is just playful banter, or observing people's behaviour for status cues. 

If someone tries to playfully tease or banter with you and you collapse and get defensive then yea, that loses you a lot of respect and makes you look pretty unattractive. And I agree we're constantly searching for status cues in others, if you give off low status cues then you won't be respected as much.

But I don't think that a shit test is a useful term for either of these. They're both just normal human behaviour that you kind of intuitively get a feel for if you talk to lots of people.

A shit test implies some active nefarious testing, and I don't think that happens all that often. And like I said earlier, I don't really want to deal with a girl who's actively testing me anyway. I'd rather go chat to the majority of girls who don't do that.

[Zenterus]

51 minutes ago, something_else said:

I think this is a good explanation. I'm still not sure it convinces me that the concept of a 'shit test' is a useful one though.

Most of the time the expression of this is just playful banter, or observing people's behaviour for status cues. 

If someone tries to playfully tease or banter with you and you collapse and get defensive then yea, that loses you a lot of respect and makes you look pretty unattractive. And I agree we're constantly searching for status cues in others, if you give off low status cues then you won't be respected as much.

But I don't think that a shit test is a useful term for either of these. They're both just normal human behaviour that you kind of intuitively get a feel for if you talk to lots of people.

A shit test implies some active nefarious testing, and I don't think that happens all that often. And like I said earlier, I don't really want to deal with a girl who's actively testing me anyway. I'd rather go chat to the majority of girls who don't do that.

Yes, when you're already a confident individual, then it doesn't matter.

But most guys that get into pickup are at a deficit when it comes to their social skills, so having these overt labels on various behaviours helps them navigate and understand the social domain better and put their experiences into context.

At this point in my journey (10 years deep into pickup), I dont even think about shit tests or push pulls or any of those concepts because my personality has been crystalized and I can respond to these things dynamically and unconsciously.

However a guy who doesn't have the social accuity and charisma to deal with banter, to deal with girls pulling back or giving him mixed signals would ABSOLUTELY benefit from understanding the concept.

In fact, I would go as far as to say that even if you are confident, understanding these dynamics at a logical level puts you at an advantage. No one feels confident all the time and if you're relying on your unconscious behaviours to attract women then you're basically at the mercy of your state. A guy who has intuitive social accuity but also understands the dynamics at play, logically, can perform much better when he is out of it than a guy who doesnt.

Edited 13 hours ago by Zenterus

[something_else]

1 hour ago, Zenterus said:

But most guys that get into pickup are at a deficit when it comes to their social skills, so having these overt labels on various behaviours helps them navigate and understand the social domain better and put their experiences into context.

That's fair, I did concede that point earlier in the thread. 

I got carried away arguing against it because some of the dudes here were talking about shit tests like they were this specific distinct phenomenon that you must learn about and that if you don't you'll always fail.

Personally I have never really given this concept much thought at all and I've done just fine. Generally my policy has been: playful teasing / banter > tease / banter back, soft insult > laugh and ignore, hard insult > laugh and walk away, rejection > wish them a good night and walk away. To me this came very naturally without any kind of concept like "shit test" because... this is just how you talk to people.

And I was not naturally sociable. I had extremely poor social skills until my early twenties. Even when I was "doing pickup" regularly I rarely consumed any theory because I just found it extremely cringy and it made me feel like I was learning tricks to get laid. It just made me feel like a loser. I always had this thought "does a girl want a pickup artist, or a well rounded, social guy?" and the answer is quite clearly the latter. If you tell a girl you practice pickup she'll dry up like the Sahara desert 9 times out of 10. I always framed it as learning to overcome social anxiety, build a social circle, learning to connect, learning to flirt etc. in ways that worked naturally for me.

I think that getting lost in pickup theory is... not a good thing. Pickup theory is like the stabilisers on your bike, good for learning the basics, but beyond a certain point I think it hinders you more than it helps. It can warp your ability to socialise naturally because you're constantly analysing the interaction and trying to fit it into some concept or script, instead of just being present with the person. Even if the script becomes automatic and sub-conscious, you're still limited by it.