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Watching one of Leo’s videos he says “sure this body will die, these perceptions will go away. What will happen then? That’s part of infinity, my death is part of infinity.” So consciousness shuts off, and you’ll no longer be able to experience this infinity.. Unless it’s like a reincarnation kind of thing? How is this still not sad as fuck and scary? You’re only able to see this infinity through some form of consciousness, right...?

Actually, there is some evidence that would indicate that reincarnation is real. I have read the studies by Ian Stevenson on reincarnation, the critiques of Stevenson's work and the critiques of the critiques. For this reason, I feel that a belief, or at least a suspicion, in reincarnation is reasonable. I think there can be some good that can come sometimes from taking spiritual direction from people on faith but I think caution and a healthy dose of skepticism should be exercised to avoid getting off-track. Even in the Kriya book that Leo recommends, the author claims that his spiritual development was hindered by following false teachers and beliefs.

The main difference is that you can just do the exercises yourself and see.I dunno siddhis though. I mean Buddhists believe in reincarnation, deity yoga and Tibetan Buddhism apparently let you become a literal deity by channeling it's characteristics and praying to it and stuff. By the way siddhis are a thing in buddhism as well. My personal take on it is to not waste too much time thinking about what is real and what isn't. I just do my practice and as long as I am progressing that is enough.

I think what we actually fear is not death of the physical body but more lives in a physical body, reincarnation. Failing a most difficult mission of freeing oneself from the prison of mind. Body out, failed level, reload, build player, go. At least that's what I fear.

zen devil is when you are enlightened to the extent that you have transcended your vital ego or your fears, psychological fear of death, doubts, sufferings, attachments to life, but still have a mental/spiritual ego which is a sense of superiority. It happens because after person have put so much effort for enlightenment and finally became enlightened he will feel like he is a spiritual hero. Because enlightenment doesn't yet mean end of mental/spritiual ego. By enlightenment I mean enlightenment that most people have attained which is birth in the soul when you no longer identified with body. There is also a higher stages of enlightenment when your ego disappears completely and you don't even consider your enlightenment as something special or differentiate between your state and other people's state. The main danger of zen devil is that you will become affected by dark forces if you feed your spiritual ego, and become Darth Vader, this is no good if you do it for too long because your spiritual ego might eventually EAT your soul and you can end up messing up with egoic use of different siddhis and eventually gone insane, or you simply will slow down your spiritual growth by feeling superior, and then you have to resolve your karma in the next reincarnation instead of growing your soul. Zen devilry is a phenomena of ZEN because Buddhism is nontheistic, and Buddhists rely on their own power only, but if you only rely on yourself you will eventually take enlightenment-reward as something that your SELF has achieved and mastered, these will fuel your spiritual ego. To transcend spiritual ego you need to rely and surrender to higher power or God as a higher authority, this will speed up dissolution of spiritual ego. But Buddhists and also modern Western ppl usually don't like to do that, thats why even first enlightenment might take decades if you only rely on yourself, then of course you will feel like a spiritual hero after spending decades in lotus posture.

@pluto What makes you believe or know reincarnation (with that mechanism) is true?

The discussion of self or non self goes back all the way to the buddha and has often been changed since then. I am in Thailand at the moment and here lived a famous buddhist monk Buddhadasa. He translated the original Pali texts again. He says that there is no self whats so ever. Nor soul. Only in the relative truth one has still a self for he is in a state of delusion. In the absolute truth there is no self (anatta) an no birth no death. He also says to hold on to higher self (ātman) leads to attachment. And nibbāna is more like a extinction zone freed from cause and effect without a self. What i learned from the monks there is that the wheel of dependent origination (basis of reincarnation samsara) is actually not meant in a way of the physical rebirth, but more like the ego that gets created in a second of a thought process in the 12 nidānas and that you can train your mind to bee so fast that you catch your own ignorance in the point of contact with the six senses and transform it into wisdom thru true insight of the very nature of things. Impermanence.

Have been searching the net and found some of the answers. the Mundaka Upanishad (3.1.9) explains that the living being is the soul, and that: “The soul is atomic in size and can be perceived by perfect intelligence. This atomic soul is situated within the heart, and spreads its influence all over the body of the embodied living entities. When the soul is purified from the contamination of the five kinds of material air, its spiritual influence is exhibited.” My Thoughts Beautiful, so the soul is as small as an atom, not like the energy in the human shape as shown in movies. It is situated within the heart and spread its influence all over the body, so this basically hints that it is more than blood that is going through the body, the heart is performing its function to regulate blood but underneath much more is happening, this make me curious as to what the soul is doing to channel its influence throughout the body like heart. It is further explained that we should know that which pervades the entire body by consciousness is indestructible. No one is able to destroy the imperishable soul. Only the material body of the eternal living entity is subject to destruction. . . For the soul there is never birth nor death. Nor, having once been, does he ever cease to be. He is unborn, undying and eternal. He is not slain when the body dies or is killed. . . As a person puts on new garments, giving up old ones, similarly, the soul accepts new material bodies, giving up the old and useless ones. My Thoughts So, the soul just is and is forever but then why does it go through different bodies? What is the reason for the journey of the soul from body to body? The Katha Upanishad relates that within the body, higher than the senses and the sense objects, exists the mind. More subtle than the mind is the intelligence, and higher and more subtle than the intellect is the self. That self is hidden in all beings and does not shine forth, but is seen by subtle seers through their sharp intellect. My Thoughts Layer of human being - Body - Senses - Mind - Intellect ( what is this ?) - True Self/ No Self From this we can understand that within the gross physical body, composed of various material elements, such as earth, air, water, etc., there is also the subtle body composed of the finer subtle elements of mind, intelligence and false ego. The psychic activities take place within the subtle body. It is also within the subtle body wherein exist the memories of past lives, however deep they may be. Yet, the living being has his spiritual form that is deeper than this subtlety, otherwise he could not have repeated births. A person actually sees his spiritual self as well as the presence of the Supreme Being when he perceives that both the gross and subtle bodies have nothing to do with the pure, spiritual self within. Therefore, it could be asked that since we are separate from the gross and subtle bodies, why do we so strongly identify with the material body? It is explained that though the material body is different from the soul, it is because of the ignorance due to material association that one falsely identifies oneself with the high and low bodily conditions. My Thoughts Alright, I do believe in reincarnation and past life, and now this text tells me that we can have access to the memories of your past lives. Yo Leo, have you accessed your past lives yet? So, to summarize, the soul is a particle of consciousness and bliss in its purified state of being. It is not material in any way. It is what departs from the body at the time of death and, in the subtle body, carries its mental impressions, desires and tendencies, along with the karmic results of its activities from one body to another. To understand and perceive this self, which is our genuine spiritual identity, is the real goal of life. Such a realization relieves one of further material existence. As it is explained, those who have purified their consciousness, becoming absorbed in spiritual knowledge and absolving any impurities in the mind, are liberated from karma that frees them from any future births. They are free from any more births in the material world and are delivered to the spiritual atmosphere. How to do this is the ultimate accomplishment of human existence. My Thoughts If soul is a particle of consciousness, then what other particles constitute consciousness? So the personality of the soul would be related to the mental impressions, desires and tendencies, and karma that it takes away after death of the body? According the author and blogger "Stephan Khapp" - to understand and perceive this self a.k.a enlightenment is the real goal of our life. - It will free yourself from the birth cycle. Is anyone familiar with the work of "stephan kapp", should I order and read his book on vedas understanding and enlightenment?

Thank you, The core reason for understanding this is to understand why we are born, if reincarnation happens again and again and for a reason, that we have to work towards in this life, then I will definitely want to work towards it. Edit: I need some guidance, some basic answers to my question and resource materials that I can go through.

Actually, Leo has already covered the major pitfall of enlightenment in his Zen Devils video. Mahasamadhi is a non-issue. What will happen is you will hit mahasamadhi and then your karma will get exhausted during the integration period. Maybe, to riff off Shanmugam, if you're really old and feeble you are presented with a choice, otherwise you're probably not. (I assume Mahasamadhi is Unity Consciousness and not sahaja, since karma has already been exhausted by the time sahaja is reached.) That is what the people who have gone through it have told me (I haven't completed it myself yet.) I wasn't even presented with a choice upon reaching 1000, since I had no intention of dying. Edit: A thought has occurred to me as to why the choice of death may be presented. The integration period can involve going through added crap to exhaust your karma fully (although usually not THAT bad.) If, however, you're already old and feeble, in pain, whatever, it may exacerbate all of that. Maybe that's what it's about. Taking the no-reincarnation option upon death or staying alive and going through the integration period struggles. This is a theory based on my experience so far.

@Shanmugam I don’t care about authorities really, I’m not into believing them, I’m not identified with any religion. I’m not asking to believe in anything. I’m simply researching it and it is in progress, I’m not concluding anything. But you have to understand that There are rules to this dream, you see? Everything changes. we used to be monkeys, now we are clever monkeys, then we will be something else. There is evolution and it’s not only physical but also happens on the level of subtle bodies or souls. It’s easy to understand that once you dig deeper into understanding of karma and reincarnation cycle. This cycle exists for evolutionary purposes, not just to torture us like Buddha thought. That’s it, evolution has its logic and plan and Homo sapiense is not the highest stage of evolution. Its not about higher meaning and purpose per se, its about how reality is structured, how it progresses, how it changes. Christianity, Islam and Judaism only exists because of that, they give a guidance within this ‘dream’, they are not about enlightenment, enlightenment for them is just one step, if they are about enlightenment they would simply state that, like Buddha did he said I teach enlightenment, but they stated different things. It’s not just bunch of metaphors of enlightenment like many ppl like to think. And they seem to be contradictory but once you look on the spirituality and religions from integral point of view you can see that they actually complement each other. To understand what Aurobindo meant, one need to research it, it’s rather a complicated topic. Even the chosen ones will be deceived (c) Jesus. (chosen ones = enlightened ones)

@Joseph Maynor Just to give some important points 1) In Buddhism, after the death of a lama, Tibetan lamas follow some stars and travel a long distance to find out the reincarnation of that Lama. This is a custom. Once they find that reincarnated child, they usually take him with them as the child becomes a boy and teach him Buddhism. Those lamas could be the three magis from East who visited Jesus during his birth (as explained in Bible) 2) In a Buddhist monastery in India, a manuscript was discovered. It talks about Issa, a saint from Isreal who was taken by lamas and brought to India when he was 14 years old. This explains why there is nothing found in Bible about where Jesus was between the age 12 to 30.. Consider the above fact and also consider those gnostic gospels which talk about Jesus in a different way. Watch the full video, you will get more details..

Question for Leo or any other people who have had significant enlightenment experiences: Why is there so much misconception about what happens after death between people who have experienced what you have? the buddhists believe this, jesus says this, hindus say this, reincarnation, heaven, hell, non duality, the list of these concepts goes on - how can so many people experience that which is beyond words yet come out of it with such radically different perspective on what actually happens after death?

Does anyone think Jesus, Mohammed, buddha, or any other spiritual being in our history, has experienced this awakening that we all seek? Each of them comes out of it with many similar views on how to live your life, but very different views on what happens when you die - heaven vs hell, reincarnation, never actually existing... the list seems to go on, although some of them may be somewhat similar/overlapping. So all these incredibly spiritual beings have this experience of that which is beyond words, yet coming to no clear consensus on what Truth awaits us after death. I need only look at the posts previously to see that there's no consensus either here - one starts to live? so I start to exist as everything that ever was, is and will be? GIven that I never existed, all my memories of anything that happened would be gone, so i'd have no recollection of my experiences. It's just a mindfuck when i try to ponder it. Would really love to find a way to get some 5MEO to get a glimpse of some of this, I've experienced only very mild enlightnement experiences as of yet compared to what I see Leo experiencing, but I had one profound one that showed me the groundlessness of reality, with consciousness creating reality, but it's hard to explain

@Leo Gura If you accept the idea of infinite layers and consecutive lives. What is your opinion on karma and reincarnation then? If there are layers of souls within your body is there a possibility that your "current" life will determine what "you" as the deeper layer (soul) will experience in the next life?

Hello folks, long time follower, first-time poster here. This past summer, thanks to following the path laid out by Uncle Leo (That's what we call him in my home, although he's younger), I woke up. I see and experience the unity daily and at times become so zoned out while meditating, I tear up with bliss but still have many old remnants and still have issues with the idea of a soul. Here is something that I have been contemplating off and on for a little while now, I hope I can explain my thoughts. If things are as I see them now, there is only one soul, but if things are not as they seem, I would consider the soul to be an array variable, as is used in software such as this very Forum and any program that is not extremely basic. For those who are not familiar with programming, here's a copy/paste of what an array variable is. "An array is a variable containing multiple values. Any variable may be used as an array. There is no maximum limit to the size of an array, nor any requirement that member variables be indexed or assigned contiguously. Arrays are zero-based: the first element is indexed with the number 0." By combining Buddhism with software practices and throwing nonduality out the door (or at least seeing the soul as a many-sided coin as the base of everything), perhaps the soul can be considered an array variable. All of our thoughts, experiences, and actions are smaller variables which accumulate over time and become a part of the larger variable -- the array/soul. The first element "0" could perhaps represent our birth/death/purpose/anything of utmost importance to the variable. When the functions that make use of this variable end (this existence), the variable would either be wiped clean and freed up, or recycled and embedded into a new function. This could explain both transcendence and reincarnation. This idea might not be a new concept but figured I'd share my thoughts and say hello to you fine people. Hello! How ya dooooooooooin?

Which topics you consider as fake, distractive nature, not worth & illusory in the path? What about Tarot, Adivination Magic Paranormal, Mental Powers, Psychokinesis Energy reading Aurea Extrasensorial Perception Entities Oniromancy Geometry patterns, "Don't distract!" Soul Karma Ietsism Subtle body Occultism Reincarnation Astral trips

I don’t know this Dali lama?..and I don’t anythjng about reincarnation as far as the conception. I can tell you that there is as much rascality in the center as any other. But I see it very clearly the whole movement of that center... I am not fortunate enough to have not gone through illusion ‘psychological becoming’ and deception ‘fueled by fear’. But at the same time I appreciate and have learned from illusion and deception. Any interpretation we come to as a reason of why things are the way they are to me would fall short of the truth, ‘As in of itself’ without our analyzation. I think it’s simply seeing the whole movement of the self so clear that this seeing acts as it’s own freedom. Like I said before I am not any different than any other.

@Faceless I don’t see what you mean. It must be so simple I can’t grasp it. Maybe you’re like the child born as the reincarnation of the Dali Lama. It seems very possible & interesting to me. Maybe you just never added the ego to begin with, and never experienced self deception. So there was nothing to transcend, nothing to be realized. Maybe you have only existed as love it’self, and never saw reality as other than your own illusion. No veil, no void, only love. That’s amazing to me.

From what I understand of the video, @Leo Gura is basically saying that idealism (the belief that all of reality is fundamentally a form of experience/consciousness) is true, because reality is groundless. What kind of leap is that to make? So we agree that reality is grounded in nothing, where anything is possible. Then why is it suddenly such an obvious thing that physical reality is an illusion and that brains do not generate consciousness? If literally ANYTHING is possible within this nothingness, why is a physical reality — where dead things eventually merge to become what we call awareness or consciousness — suddenly not possible in this context? Leo uses unfalsifiable inductive reasoning of the kind you see solipsists use ("you can't view the brain outside the brain") to claim that human consciousness is not generated by the brain, and that's just not sufficient to constitute a logical conclusion. You only have to refer to the "Russell's Teapot" thought experiment to prove how unfalsifiable claims are insufficient by themselves. Even if we grant Leo's assertion that what we call "our universe" is physics within consciousness and not the other way around, we now run into some problems: What happens after death? After all, the idea of death as the end of experience only makes sense in a physical context; if consciousness is generated by the brain. If we were to take seriously this extreme skepticism to what our "minds" tell us, we would have to go through life completely agnostic about what happens after death. Suddenly reincarnation seems plausible — if reality is a groundless "dream machine" that just churns out one groundless experience after another, as Leo also claims. A terrifying scenario, indeed. I have always found comfort in the fact that I know my existence is finite. Becoming an idealist completely shatters this notion. Is this what Leo is suggesting, or have I missed something? Believe it or not, there's an even bigger problem with dismissing all of physical reality as an illusion grounded in experience: Suddenly, everything can fall apart any minute. Why doesn't it? What reason do we have to be shocked if a UFO comes landing or the moon suddenly develops a face that talks? I imagine that the response would be: Because it would all be a dream and it wouldn't matter outside that context. But what about those "dreams" in reality that never end? Dreams featuring infinite lives of suffering? Surely the existence of such "dreams" is unacceptable? I know that my moment-to-moment suffering — whether in a dream or in waking life — is undesirable and would be unacceptable if it were to last for an infinity. This is the reality Leo seems to believe in, and I find it to be not only an amazing leap of logic for an otherwise smart individual, but also a deplorable demonstration of apathy that he seems completely fine with this. He's effectively dismissing all forms of suffering, no matter how gruesome or everlasting, when he admits to believe this suffering actually exists.

No he said " And then, popcorn will be created, and all of your reincarnation will be crunchy"

He has great theory on reincarnation btw

Maybe I'm his reincarnation ... YOU DIDN'T THOUGHT ABOUT THAT, DIDN'T YOU ???!!!

Good question. It was one of the questions I had to work myself through on my journey as well. Most people think of the soul and reincarnation like this - My name is Mark and my souls name is also Mark, and it looks just like I did when I was 20, and its separate from everyone else's soul, and when my body dies this soul will be placed into a new body. This way of thinking is an attempt to preserve the ego, even beyond physical death. Don't feel discouraged if that is what you are doing, the ego is very powerful and will do everything it can to preserve itself. The way I think of it is like this - This light is not my own. We all share the same eternal soul, and all other beings I will ever witness in my life are other incarnations of myself existing simultaneously. In that way, this one great soul reincarnates itself. And yet, you are that.

I think he thinks that you can experience the absolute suffering entirely for a lifetime, and not just as a ritual passage. @Ocean We could say there is the one soul The beloved ! RUMI REINCARNATION INCOMING !