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People are too distracted, and too occupied to wonder metaphysically. You need to be at a certain level of maturity to even start wondering, but that won't even occur until you are unoccupied enough. Then there's additional effort to keep the wondering going. Without some sort of ulterior egoic motive, without a community, and without Guru's feeding us insights, many of us wouldn't even be here. It's not that most are dumb and that there are some rare curious individuals, most of the time one of the 'dumb' people were just at the right place at the right time, luck, or fate? If you make the case that some start out spiritually gifted, it could be anything from reincarnation to genes. If you believe it's genes then there is really nothing to attribute to the individual, it's just a privilege. If you believe in souls and reincarnation then it's not that these souls are rare and exceptional, they were dumb too, they just reincarnated enough times to learn their lessons and come further along the path. This paradigm of 'rare individuals' can be harmful in that one can start calling others dumb, blaming them. When really it's not anyone's fault. Either it's that some are lucky, or that they are just further along the path, or maybe some other paradigm. In any case, there is no reason to judge, because there never is. There must be empathy, for those who weren't lucky, or aren't far enough in their path, specially from someone who wonders about these things. And the empathy shouldn't be from a place of higher judgement but a place of recognition of the sameness that is each one of us. Maybe you are attached to spirituality and metaphysical curiosity, hence why you want to see it in others.

@Someone here When mind = world, it does not matter if the body breathes or not. The body is inside my mind, just like anything else. So even if the body started to rotten, I'd still be awake. I just don't know how the world would change after that (reincarnation or whatever). To answer that I have to trip more times.

It's much much much more broader than that I'd say. First off, every incarnation and reincarnation is of purpose and intent. If by any chance you reincarnate in South Africa, it won't be because of an issue with your current ancestral family tree, it would be because you have to, as in this is what your soul now needs. Not because of a numbers issue or anything like that. So rest in knowing that this incarnation, and whichever else to come, is a purposeful one. If you inherit an illness of some sort, it is all in place of a purpose. Another thing is, I wouldn't worry too much on the continuity of a bloodline. I mean you should have kids because you absolutely want to and feel that there would be value in the experience of being a father. Otherwise you're doing it for all the wrong reasons. Absolutely anything and everything you do in this world, you do for yourself. Never get that twisted, it only creates room for chaos.

It seems that we need some sort of way to do more creative stuff. Many jobs lack creativity completely and are not necessary. There is much work done to just keep jobs in place. This is a mistake. I don't know how society would change from the way it is now to a different way. It could start with being more honest about things. If there was more funding for artistic work and more effort put into that than say insurance policies, war, fast food, soda, chocolate, There definitely seems to be a great shift towards wanting to be more creative and less of doing things that are repetitive, mundane, etc. There are majors in the arts. The career path seems less defined. Movies, music, books, and art can all be downloaded for free and so there is the concern that one will not make any money from it. We kinda have to move away from a money society? Move away from money and people may do what they want and there will be more incentive to be efficient rather than to have excesses. Maybe one needs to study people, government, economics, values to determine how to shift society for more creative, holistic endeavors?? My peer had said that we should still care about the consciousness of society because of the people who come after. I was saying that, oh we and everyone will die so it doesn't matter. My peer does bring up a good point. If you look at schools, the material kinda stays the same year after year. It hasn't really changed. There could be potential for more change with how schools function and evolve rather than being rigid. Maybe we need to move away from working 40 hours a week to only a few and the rest on creative endeavors?? ... The virtual world starts to feel imaginary. it is so cut off from this one that it is like we aren't alive and we are tricking ourselves. We get so used to the virtual world that we forget what it feels like to be in this one. It can be hard to talk to someone who keeps on telling you how to live your life. Maybe there is stuff to learn though still with those interactions such as why they are giving the advice and if they are right or if they are projecting one of their issues onto you. Living in a group where you are forced to marry someone you don't know could be a really hard life to have.. Freedom of choice is a weird thing where sometimes it is good to take it away and sometimes it is not good. When we waste time talking about food and movies instead of what the problem is, we are just delaying our healing process. The ability to stay focused and on task can make quite a difference and the ability to know what that looks like can make a difference too. The problem with reincarnation is that it then makes the desire of constant comparison of you to others to see who is more wise and who you haven't lived as yet. It can be hard to say one person or activity is more conscious than another. What determines what body that you wake up into next and why would people assume that the body would be on Earth when there are potentially other bodies on other planets? Or you could wake up into a universe that you wouldn't be able to visit in this one. And what would be more conscious and how would you tell? Based on unity?

Do you relate this to reincarnation where one would live the life in one field/perspective/body and then die and wake up in another field operating from a different "body"? If that was the case, what determines what body is jumped into next? And do you think that we would keep on getting "wiser" and "wiser" from one body to the next body? (One issue with this is then the constant comparison of self to other to try to figure out who is wiser to try to figure out which body one has already lived in and which one has not... and then what it even means to be "wiser") Do you see it as god dreaming from every body at the same time (like all the people/bugs/animals/aliens/bacteria/whatever) or in one body at a time (person A, then person B, then person C)? What was it that got you to have the idea that when we die we just go back to sleep and dream again with a different field/body/perspective/experience? Why not die and then never wake up again - like a lightbulb that goes out? We could wake up into a dream/universe that we cannot visit/access in this present dream/universe kinda like how your awake life seems to not be able to visit your asleep life and vice versa, although they could have similarities.

"it seems that life evolves, learns from itself, trial and error. and his favorite tool to encourage himself is suffering" ... Part of me is like - what if reincarnation is real and we just reincarnate to become more and more conscious each time. So our teachers who teach us who are more conscious than us we will reincarnate to. But how would that be possible? The weird part about reincarnation is then.. well where do I land on the spectrum/order? How am I to know what lives I have already lived and what lives are to come? All I can think of is that those who are more wise than us are to come after us and those that are less wise than us we have already lived as - well that just makes sense to me because if we are going from one life to another, I would think that we would be accumulating wisdom instead of dropping it. So then the insights that I have gained, I will then have in the next lives too... maybe. But this is all hypothetical. So then one may not necessarily go back to being an animal/bug/bacteria MAYBE because that may have less wisdom than would being a human.. Then one's main goal in life would be to get as much wisdom in life as possible and share as much of that as possible so that when on reincarnates into the next life, one will still have that wisdom with them.... But how do you really tell who is wiser than you though?

It really depends on which perspective you want to take. No perspective is true though. A perspective is just one way of slicing reality. On one level time doesn't exist, so any talk of simultaneity, or not, makes no sense. With no time, nothing is happening at all. But that perspective is too mindfucky to work with sensibly. Reincarnation or ideas of living the life of everyone eventually are out. Another perspective is that consciousness cannot be counted. Stuff inside consciousness can be counted, because consciousness has the property of being divisible. But consciousness itself is unindividuated (a.k.a. non-dual), it doesn't belong to a me or to a you, we all belong to consciousness. Ideas of there being only one consciousness don't make sense either, because there is nothing beyond consciousness - counting requires comparison. But the real consequence is that there can't be a me and a you, we are figments of some divine imagination: divisions within a timeless consciousness.

These things are also something you as God are imagining. Including things like reincarnation. It is irrelevant to focus on this. You are God now and this is your dream now. Everything else is imaginary. What you are doing is very subtley still clinging to the idea that others exist. You are still clinging to this. And this is totally expected and normal for the ego. You want it to be true that there are other points of view happening now separate from you occurring simultaneously. But I'm here to tell you that absolutely ALL separation is something you as Infinite Mind are imagining or creating

At the highest level of consciousness even reincarnation is imaginary because you are imagining the past and the future. At the highest level of consciousness death simply never occurs, so reincarnation becomes moot.

How and where to find your soul, if you want answers into reincarnation you first need to tap into this, as this is the spark that holds the memories of all of your past lives, it also holds within it your divine plan, what you came here for, and other direct truths. If you can't access your soul, then you'll have a harder time having authentic awakening experiences, you won't be able to determine what is of the ego and what is divine within you. I recommend Aurobindo's work if you want to integrate stage turquoise and above. His work can guide you to your own, personalized divine insight. You will be given, through the divine knowledge that your soul carries within it, everything you need to know. You get a personalized puzzle that has different keys, or pieces to make up the whole thing - then when you "get it" the picture makes sense. We not only get different puzzles, but the path towards collecting these parts is unique to you. So if you are asking any questions about spirituality, the best thing to do is to learn how to access this time and time again, and to listen to it when it speaks to you. No one can really give you an answer, either yes or no, you have to uncover it for yourself and let it tell you what it knows - a download right into the heart. Meditation is the best way to quiet the mind to hear the voice of the soul - and it will be as though a voice emanating from your heart-region, flowing outwards into the physical world, speaks to you - and you and your environment often become one in this state, as everything that you see, feel, hear and touch is part of your soul's "bubble". We are all cocreators and we make this reality together.

To me reincarnation is the only logical thing that CAN be. Our whole existence, the Universe... is energy flowing in and out of itself for all eternity. Energy can't be destroyed, it always IS. So how could it be that I exist only once in the whole of eternity and never again? It's not logical. I must have been "here" a trillion times before, in whatever shape and form, and by that logic, I will be "here" a trillion times more. It's a ride that never ends. It cannot stop existing. So it must go on forever.

I'm not claiming that reincarnation and past lives are absolutely true, but after God-realization I got insight into the full history of my soul and it was extremely helpful in a relative way. It's just as helpful as we learn about human history on this planet etc…

If I am dreaming every perspective at separate times, how does dream order work of what comes before/after what? Why can't I reveal stuff from other dreams to my current dream? So instead of it being the person in the bed dreaming the dream, it is nothingness dreaming it; and likewise, nothingness is dreaming being awake. I was previously thinking it was the russian doll method where we have daydreams but the daydreams aren't aware of us and God has daydreams of us but we aren't aware of God - and that God could be experiencing all dreams/perspectives at the same time. So the reason one can access awakening without using psychedelics is because they have to be aware of when they are meditating when they go into a daydream and then come out of it and see it does not match the current surroundings and then because everything seen externally comes from internal, that too is imagined like a daydream as well and then note the nothingness of how the daydream doesn't exist physically other than as imagination. If one is so focused on exploring the dream, they may overlook the dream and inside/outside head concept. How would one ever experience omnipresence/God/full consciousness if one is dreaming from a limited perspective? The scientific idea of evolution no longer makes any sense - the idea that life came from replicating self mRNA and eventually evolved to all these organisms. I don't know how other stuff would be able to dream in the same way humans/cats/lizards can. So then, "it came to me in a dream" is kinda like one dream being able to talk to another... And people's notion of "reincarnation" is kinda like where you go from dreaming from one perspective to another - but yet you are still the imaginary nothingness. A peer said that near death experiencers experienced being the galaxies but that doesn't necessarily make sense unless the russian doll method applies or I am still thinking about it wrong. So then technically "god" doesn't have to dream out the main character in every perspective either necessarily.

I understand what he is saying. I was actually going to respond to your earlier post. As we have said before, and you can become directly conscious of this believe it or not (actually don't believe it) that you stand alone as God. You are One. You are not really human you are Actuality or Infinity. You are right now. The past and future are imaginary, your thoughts right now are imaginary, they are you as God dreaming. All of that can dissolve and you can become pure Actuality or pure "right now" notice you can say "right now" and the moment is gone. So you say "right now, right now, right now" and you can keep going on like that because you can't capture the present moment. Why? Because you are Being it!! You ARE it. So when you realize this directly by Being it you will awaken. And you will realize that you are God dreaming. And that this was a dream. That reincarnation is your dream. That time is your dream. That space is your dream. That there is only Being. Imagining you will be other perspectives one at a time is more of you dreaming. (Because time is no different than space, a dimension within this dream). It has no existence outside of you Imagining it right now. That you are being others now simultaneously is also your dream.

No past for prior incarnations, no future for incarnations to come, and most importantly, no present moment that does not move faster than any thought process or recognition of a currently existing incarnation. Reincarnation is a fun myth. It’s potentially got some relative truth to it but nothing more.

It's the next-most reassuring thing after the idea of an eternal heaven-like state. Most "spiritual but not religious" people aren't naïve enough to believe in heaven, but they can't cope with the idea of non-existence after death either. So reincarnation is the most convenient option.

My direct awakening experiences around reincarnation came from a few years ago after getting very sick, and while exploring memento mori, they have given me personally tailored truths, that reincarnation is the name of the game. If you have not experienced proof of this, don't worry about it - each person's path is unique and we are each given different pieces of the puzzle. The less you conceptualize it and the more you actually face your fears around death, if you have any, you'll be more likely to have a direct awakening into reincarnation. The process is called memento mori, and by learning about different cultures, by practicing dying before you die, what can happen is that you can get a download aka awakening into the nature of reincarnation. You are really just "here" and always were, but the outside layer changes. This is what goes on after death: Break me in don't break me down Swimming in these empty towns I wonder if it's all so master planned Diving into sweeter bliss Falling fair before we miss Taste the taste before it's gone and you're too late Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Breaking out beyond the night Reeling in the quieter times Saving all the flavors of my mind Reflecting on the lessons learned The broken bonds and bridges burned Take the taste of hate and throw it away Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Some sources on reincarnation: Jane Robert's Seth Speaks books and Sri Aurobindo's book "The Psychic Being" along with the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Check out NDE's as well, and listen to people who are going through the dying process. Get very comfortable with it. Start a journal. Live, breath and feel it = what is inevitable, the body will pass on... go through every emotion that comes up with bravery - nature respects and rewards bravery - and offer gratitude and Love. Love combined with surrender can wake a person up if they practice this. You have to go on your own path to find the truth of reincarnation and not what me or anybody tells you. Awakening experiences happen when a person is ready usually, when they have inquired into something with an honesty and a curiosity. The answers to whether reincarnation exists rests within this research, spiritual practice, honesty, open heartedness and bravery. Some questions to get a person started: Am I afraid of death? If so why? What do I think will happen? And then go from there. There's a whole rabbit hole when it comes to exploring this kind of stuff, most people that genuinely have insight into reincarnation got there through going through some form of a death, be it an NDE or a spiritual death, an ego death, even when someone close dies, they can experience loved ones giving them messages about the other side.

Reincarnation is every moment if you identify as the ego. If you identify as what the ego appears in, you leave the cycle of death and rebirth... The cycle continues here so your human self character continues dying and being reborn, but you recognize that is not you.

Gonna throw in an idea. Basically there are these bundles of personality that are called skandhas. In each reincarnation they build a new personality in each birth. When a person dies, these skandhas are left behind in the earth atmosphere while the individual is resting in a heaven like dimension. Then they are draging down the individual into a another incarnation and build a new personality. The mission is to permanently transcend the skandhas. No skandhas = Nothing can drag you back to earth = No reincarnation. Every human being has a self cleansing process that can be activated to permanently transcend the skandhas. It is unfortunately only activated by an outside source and at the right time. This process is latent in vast majority of human beings. Not even the Turquoise folks we know and love has this process activated. Atleast i haven't heard anyone talk about it yet.

Burn through your karma. Shadow work. The best way to grow up the ladder is to do as much shadow work as possible. Really get to know everything about yourself as the human that you are, for this incarnation. Treat yourself as soul that is on a journey and is growing as much as possible. The Seth material by Jane Roberts and the Psychic Being by Sri Aurobindo are both good reading material that can teach you how to do this from a yellow/turquoise perspective. You'll have to do a lot of learning, detaching, and meditation. You will want to get to the point where you can see/feel the screen, where you are above your emotions and thoughts as the witness. When you die, you can imagine whatever you want. Nahm's dreamboard idea helps bring positive things into your life, and the actions you take will carry over. What do you want out of this life, deeply, feel into your soul. Love. Deeply. Do good things that feel in alignment with who you are and your purpose. Rather than worrying about the next life, make this one the best you can. This carries over, not the feelings of not wanting to be human - as the soul actually loves learning and being all sorts of things - what you can do is direct your life in a way that includes the next life. Do you have a goal that you would like to accomplish that would take more than one lifetime? Often, martial arts teaches that it takes a few lifetimes to become a master - and so people learning think in terms of next life aptitude. You can direct your soul in any way you like. But the best way is to open your heart and follow what that intuition tells you. Also, Love. Love deeply, as Love is what opens the doors. Practice Love. The soul has an inherent direction to move towards, and it is all just about uncovering that soul and moving in what feels most 'right' to you. Reincarnation is like a katamari, you pick up as much stuff as you can (learn as much) and when you die, you get to "make" your next world based on what you have learned. Maybe you will want to be human again, maybe something else. Think of yourself as an archeologist uncovering hidden aspects of your deep psyche. Practice your death, pretend you are dying right n ow and go through all of the experiences - do you feel complete, or that more needs to be done? Do those things, practice your death again - until you are at peace. ^Take what feels right and throw away the rest, or set it aside - follow what works for you. Break me in don't break me down Swimming in these empty towns I wonder if it's all so master planned Diving into sweeter bliss Falling fair before we miss Taste the taste before it's gone and you're too late Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Breaking out beyond the night Reeling in the quieter times Saving all the flavors of my mind Reflecting on the lessons learned The broken bonds and bridges burned Take the taste of hate and throw it away Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything

@CuriousityIsKey You would need to reach enough spiritual power and advancement so you get to choose. If you are interested in fully freeing yourself of the reincarnation cycle, without merging with God, but in a way where you can keep living as the illusionary you, then get the book "the way of the death defier" by John Kreiter.

There are methods that can be utilized to explore this subject personally. All I have to say is that yes from an absolute perspective it's nonsense, but also keep in mind that the notion that are humans living on a planetary sphere is also nonsense from an absolute perspective(because it's all God pretending to be various finite forms). If you want to know whether or not reincarnation has any validity in this dream you'll just have to explore that possibility personally. So stay open to it, neither believing in it nor not believing in it. And realize that if you find reincarnation to be a part of this reality, it likely plays a major role in the evolutionary process(being that it's a mechanism for consciousness to evolve/stagnate in its development, not the biological hypothetical kind of evolution that's presented to you in universities).

What if someone can conscious about reincarnation? He/She can know other people past lives too.

@mojsterr I would suggest you be very careful what belief's about Karma you adopt as truth. There are many distorted ideas around Karma that religions and spiritual groups disseminate. This isn't correct based on the expanded states and OBE's I have experienced. The vast majority of people upon what we call physical death will find themselves at the same level of consciousness or slightly more expanded. Most will have to "die" many more times before they expand to the state of all that is or the God head. The essence that is you is always you. Even when you expand your awareness to the level of God, the awareness that is you is still there. You don't lose yourself in an ocean, who you are only becomes more. You become the entire ocean, to use your metaphor. Once again, be careful what belief's you adopt. You can certainly create all kinds of Karmic wheels or loops of reincarnation for yourself, but it is you who are creating them. I recommend you awaken deeper. When you do, you will take back your sovereignty and stop giving your power away to something outside of you.

@Carl-Richard I'll focus on (1), since I'll admit to not having enough familiarity with the concept of methodological vs ontological reductionism to articulate the distinction. I've read and studied quite a bit of philosophy, and I don't recall that distinction being emphasized much. If I had to venture a guess about methodological reductionism, I might emphasize the differences between logical positivism which tries to separate its methodology from ontological questions, and something like the Vedic system where ontological claims are used to frame and contextualize its methodology. This is just a guess, I could be missing the mark here. As to (1), ontology can be understood as an aspect of metaphysics. Ontology is concerned with what does and does not exist. For example, whether or not karma and reincarnation actually exist is an ontological question. Metaphysics on the other hand, deals more broadly with the overall structure, function, and meaning of Reality. Returning to the examples of karma and reincarnation, Metaphysics would try to articulate why those processes are a necessary part of the overall structure of Reality. As the example of karma should hopefully illustrate, there is of course plenty of overlap between ontology and metaphysics. For broad existential questions (such as whether the being Reality is mental or physical), an exploration will likely involve both metaphysics and ontology. So the boundaries between the two can get a bit fuzzy, and in practice I've seen the two terms used interchangeably at times.