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If I am dreaming every perspective at separate times, how does dream order work of what comes before/after what? Why can't I reveal stuff from other dreams to my current dream? So instead of it being the person in the bed dreaming the dream, it is nothingness dreaming it; and likewise, nothingness is dreaming being awake. I was previously thinking it was the russian doll method where we have daydreams but the daydreams aren't aware of us and God has daydreams of us but we aren't aware of God - and that God could be experiencing all dreams/perspectives at the same time. So the reason one can access awakening without using psychedelics is because they have to be aware of when they are meditating when they go into a daydream and then come out of it and see it does not match the current surroundings and then because everything seen externally comes from internal, that too is imagined like a daydream as well and then note the nothingness of how the daydream doesn't exist physically other than as imagination. If one is so focused on exploring the dream, they may overlook the dream and inside/outside head concept. How would one ever experience omnipresence/God/full consciousness if one is dreaming from a limited perspective? The scientific idea of evolution no longer makes any sense - the idea that life came from replicating self mRNA and eventually evolved to all these organisms. I don't know how other stuff would be able to dream in the same way humans/cats/lizards can. So then, "it came to me in a dream" is kinda like one dream being able to talk to another... And people's notion of "reincarnation" is kinda like where you go from dreaming from one perspective to another - but yet you are still the imaginary nothingness. A peer said that near death experiencers experienced being the galaxies but that doesn't necessarily make sense unless the russian doll method applies or I am still thinking about it wrong. So then technically "god" doesn't have to dream out the main character in every perspective either necessarily.

I understand what he is saying. I was actually going to respond to your earlier post. As we have said before, and you can become directly conscious of this believe it or not (actually don't believe it) that you stand alone as God. You are One. You are not really human you are Actuality or Infinity. You are right now. The past and future are imaginary, your thoughts right now are imaginary, they are you as God dreaming. All of that can dissolve and you can become pure Actuality or pure "right now" notice you can say "right now" and the moment is gone. So you say "right now, right now, right now" and you can keep going on like that because you can't capture the present moment. Why? Because you are Being it!! You ARE it. So when you realize this directly by Being it you will awaken. And you will realize that you are God dreaming. And that this was a dream. That reincarnation is your dream. That time is your dream. That space is your dream. That there is only Being. Imagining you will be other perspectives one at a time is more of you dreaming. (Because time is no different than space, a dimension within this dream). It has no existence outside of you Imagining it right now. That you are being others now simultaneously is also your dream.

No past for prior incarnations, no future for incarnations to come, and most importantly, no present moment that does not move faster than any thought process or recognition of a currently existing incarnation. Reincarnation is a fun myth. It’s potentially got some relative truth to it but nothing more.

It's the next-most reassuring thing after the idea of an eternal heaven-like state. Most "spiritual but not religious" people aren't naïve enough to believe in heaven, but they can't cope with the idea of non-existence after death either. So reincarnation is the most convenient option.

My direct awakening experiences around reincarnation came from a few years ago after getting very sick, and while exploring memento mori, they have given me personally tailored truths, that reincarnation is the name of the game. If you have not experienced proof of this, don't worry about it - each person's path is unique and we are each given different pieces of the puzzle. The less you conceptualize it and the more you actually face your fears around death, if you have any, you'll be more likely to have a direct awakening into reincarnation. The process is called memento mori, and by learning about different cultures, by practicing dying before you die, what can happen is that you can get a download aka awakening into the nature of reincarnation. You are really just "here" and always were, but the outside layer changes. This is what goes on after death: Break me in don't break me down Swimming in these empty towns I wonder if it's all so master planned Diving into sweeter bliss Falling fair before we miss Taste the taste before it's gone and you're too late Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Breaking out beyond the night Reeling in the quieter times Saving all the flavors of my mind Reflecting on the lessons learned The broken bonds and bridges burned Take the taste of hate and throw it away Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Some sources on reincarnation: Jane Robert's Seth Speaks books and Sri Aurobindo's book "The Psychic Being" along with the Tibetan Book of the Dead. Check out NDE's as well, and listen to people who are going through the dying process. Get very comfortable with it. Start a journal. Live, breath and feel it = what is inevitable, the body will pass on... go through every emotion that comes up with bravery - nature respects and rewards bravery - and offer gratitude and Love. Love combined with surrender can wake a person up if they practice this. You have to go on your own path to find the truth of reincarnation and not what me or anybody tells you. Awakening experiences happen when a person is ready usually, when they have inquired into something with an honesty and a curiosity. The answers to whether reincarnation exists rests within this research, spiritual practice, honesty, open heartedness and bravery. Some questions to get a person started: Am I afraid of death? If so why? What do I think will happen? And then go from there. There's a whole rabbit hole when it comes to exploring this kind of stuff, most people that genuinely have insight into reincarnation got there through going through some form of a death, be it an NDE or a spiritual death, an ego death, even when someone close dies, they can experience loved ones giving them messages about the other side.

Reincarnation is every moment if you identify as the ego. If you identify as what the ego appears in, you leave the cycle of death and rebirth... The cycle continues here so your human self character continues dying and being reborn, but you recognize that is not you.

I mean im open minded to it but still there isnt a single evidence to this in our direct experience. Sure some people report memories of past lifes but again consciousness is so infinite it makes you believe whatever you are thinking or any image that is appering infront of your „eyes“. some say the idea of reincarnation is just here to make you realize that there was never anything reincarnating or to reincarnate. But still alot of folks are really convinced about this reincarnation why is that?

Gonna throw in an idea. Basically there are these bundles of personality that are called skandhas. In each reincarnation they build a new personality in each birth. When a person dies, these skandhas are left behind in the earth atmosphere while the individual is resting in a heaven like dimension. Then they are draging down the individual into a another incarnation and build a new personality. The mission is to permanently transcend the skandhas. No skandhas = Nothing can drag you back to earth = No reincarnation. Every human being has a self cleansing process that can be activated to permanently transcend the skandhas. It is unfortunately only activated by an outside source and at the right time. This process is latent in vast majority of human beings. Not even the Turquoise folks we know and love has this process activated. Atleast i haven't heard anyone talk about it yet.

Burn through your karma. Shadow work. The best way to grow up the ladder is to do as much shadow work as possible. Really get to know everything about yourself as the human that you are, for this incarnation. Treat yourself as soul that is on a journey and is growing as much as possible. The Seth material by Jane Roberts and the Psychic Being by Sri Aurobindo are both good reading material that can teach you how to do this from a yellow/turquoise perspective. You'll have to do a lot of learning, detaching, and meditation. You will want to get to the point where you can see/feel the screen, where you are above your emotions and thoughts as the witness. When you die, you can imagine whatever you want. Nahm's dreamboard idea helps bring positive things into your life, and the actions you take will carry over. What do you want out of this life, deeply, feel into your soul. Love. Deeply. Do good things that feel in alignment with who you are and your purpose. Rather than worrying about the next life, make this one the best you can. This carries over, not the feelings of not wanting to be human - as the soul actually loves learning and being all sorts of things - what you can do is direct your life in a way that includes the next life. Do you have a goal that you would like to accomplish that would take more than one lifetime? Often, martial arts teaches that it takes a few lifetimes to become a master - and so people learning think in terms of next life aptitude. You can direct your soul in any way you like. But the best way is to open your heart and follow what that intuition tells you. Also, Love. Love deeply, as Love is what opens the doors. Practice Love. The soul has an inherent direction to move towards, and it is all just about uncovering that soul and moving in what feels most 'right' to you. Reincarnation is like a katamari, you pick up as much stuff as you can (learn as much) and when you die, you get to "make" your next world based on what you have learned. Maybe you will want to be human again, maybe something else. Think of yourself as an archeologist uncovering hidden aspects of your deep psyche. Practice your death, pretend you are dying right n ow and go through all of the experiences - do you feel complete, or that more needs to be done? Do those things, practice your death again - until you are at peace. ^Take what feels right and throw away the rest, or set it aside - follow what works for you. Break me in don't break me down Swimming in these empty towns I wonder if it's all so master planned Diving into sweeter bliss Falling fair before we miss Taste the taste before it's gone and you're too late Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything Breaking out beyond the night Reeling in the quieter times Saving all the flavors of my mind Reflecting on the lessons learned The broken bonds and bridges burned Take the taste of hate and throw it away Won't change what I am To find who you are Can't stay in these lines When I'm bursting at the seams My body might collapse If I carry one more dream If I carry one more dream I could be anything I could be anything

@CuriousityIsKey You would need to reach enough spiritual power and advancement so you get to choose. If you are interested in fully freeing yourself of the reincarnation cycle, without merging with God, but in a way where you can keep living as the illusionary you, then get the book "the way of the death defier" by John Kreiter.

There are methods that can be utilized to explore this subject personally. All I have to say is that yes from an absolute perspective it's nonsense, but also keep in mind that the notion that are humans living on a planetary sphere is also nonsense from an absolute perspective(because it's all God pretending to be various finite forms). If you want to know whether or not reincarnation has any validity in this dream you'll just have to explore that possibility personally. So stay open to it, neither believing in it nor not believing in it. And realize that if you find reincarnation to be a part of this reality, it likely plays a major role in the evolutionary process(being that it's a mechanism for consciousness to evolve/stagnate in its development, not the biological hypothetical kind of evolution that's presented to you in universities).

What if someone can conscious about reincarnation? He/She can know other people past lives too.

@mojsterr I would suggest you be very careful what belief's about Karma you adopt as truth. There are many distorted ideas around Karma that religions and spiritual groups disseminate. This isn't correct based on the expanded states and OBE's I have experienced. The vast majority of people upon what we call physical death will find themselves at the same level of consciousness or slightly more expanded. Most will have to "die" many more times before they expand to the state of all that is or the God head. The essence that is you is always you. Even when you expand your awareness to the level of God, the awareness that is you is still there. You don't lose yourself in an ocean, who you are only becomes more. You become the entire ocean, to use your metaphor. Once again, be careful what belief's you adopt. You can certainly create all kinds of Karmic wheels or loops of reincarnation for yourself, but it is you who are creating them. I recommend you awaken deeper. When you do, you will take back your sovereignty and stop giving your power away to something outside of you.

It seems that the general consensus is you keep working and resolving your karma through multiple lives until you finally finish whatever it was needed to do.I don't know if this is correct, this is just how I understand it. My problem with this is that when you die, there is no more "You". You merge with that energy again, you are again the whole ocean and not that separate entity which died. So how can it be possible that the same Soul could emerge again in the next life and continue its karmic work? To me it does not make any sense. Once that drop falls into the ocean there can never be that same exact drop again, but it becomes something else. It comes from that ocean, yes, but it's not the same drop anymore. And If I am a murderer in this life, who says I will continue to resolve this karma in the next life? What if someone else gets my karma and has to work through it and I pick up someone else's?

@Carl-Richard I'll focus on (1), since I'll admit to not having enough familiarity with the concept of methodological vs ontological reductionism to articulate the distinction. I've read and studied quite a bit of philosophy, and I don't recall that distinction being emphasized much. If I had to venture a guess about methodological reductionism, I might emphasize the differences between logical positivism which tries to separate its methodology from ontological questions, and something like the Vedic system where ontological claims are used to frame and contextualize its methodology. This is just a guess, I could be missing the mark here. As to (1), ontology can be understood as an aspect of metaphysics. Ontology is concerned with what does and does not exist. For example, whether or not karma and reincarnation actually exist is an ontological question. Metaphysics on the other hand, deals more broadly with the overall structure, function, and meaning of Reality. Returning to the examples of karma and reincarnation, Metaphysics would try to articulate why those processes are a necessary part of the overall structure of Reality. As the example of karma should hopefully illustrate, there is of course plenty of overlap between ontology and metaphysics. For broad existential questions (such as whether the being Reality is mental or physical), an exploration will likely involve both metaphysics and ontology. So the boundaries between the two can get a bit fuzzy, and in practice I've seen the two terms used interchangeably at times.

You missed the mark if you still think other people exist to be awakened. There is no 2nd to wake up. Non dual = not 2. Reincarnation, past lives, future lives. These are all just concepts given to you by teachers. Illusions, lies. All of these forum posts, there are no people behind them. That's just an idea you made up in your mind. The forum itself doesn't exist, because there is no server to host it on. Even me typing this to you, I don't exist. There is no one that typed this. This post just exists. If you have a dream and in it Leo wakes up, and then 100 other people also reach the highest awakening, how many people have woken up? 0. People in dreams aren't real. Stop thinking that you live in a physical body, that you're looking out at a physical world that actually exists. Think of it more like you're watching a movie, or you've had a VR headset on since the moment you're born and everything you see is an illusion. If there is a hand on the screen that looks lifelike and moves perfectly in tune with how you want to move it, how would you know if the hand was real or in VR? How can you even tell if the reality you're looking at isn't 2D instead of 3D? You live in Plato's Cave for 1. Sure you can go visit Leo, you can even touch him and it will all seem perfectly real, but that doesn't make it real. It's still just a dream. "If you die in the game, you die in real life" - Your actions still have consequences so don't do anything stupid with this knowledge. NPCs will still attack you, and the VR suit you're wearing has very realistic pain inflicting sensors.

I assume you turned "anti-reincarnation" because of Leo's ideas? Be careful not to fall too deep into his ideology. He's mostly right about things, but he has his biases and blind spots. A "series of lives" is an experience in itself. It adds another dimension to existence. Each life on its own is an experience, but when you go from life to life, retaining/building some quality, that gives a whole additional layer of complexity to each life you have. But if you have doubts.. remember we live in infinity.. if you want a soul, you should be able to get one if you want??

You’re making too many assumptions reincarnation is just a map

I was elaborating on the fallacious thinking around reincarnation. I don't understand.

I remember ~6 past lives and the concept of reincarnation is quite useful. There appears to be continuity in the experiences that I have and lessons learned. It also integrates well with spiral dynamics That being said I'd still say that it's no more real than physicality itself

Death is a very important and valuable tool for beings on the path of reincarnation and karma. It is quite normal for beings still on that path to get lost in their games and illusions and to lose sight of the greater purpose and goal of their journey. Not only do such beings get a little lost and confused, but they also begin to create a great deal of pain, fear and confusion for themselves. So, death was created to allow these beings to interrupt their passage so that they could, with some regularity, be brought back to their intended path. Death allows a means for the being to bring their journey to a halt and return to a higher consciousness for guidance and help. Without its merciful release, those beings would become very weary and traumatized. If this is the case - they are not immortal, but still on the path of karma and before liberation. An eternity of experiences is fun, interesting and infinitely exciting. If you ever require rest, you may simply still your being and put down your burden and you will instantly find yourself in that state of blissful, balanced, harmonious oneness that is your truest nature. This will be as normal as a night's sleep currently is.

@lmfao Nobody reincarnates. What is thought of as reincarnation is when memories stretch beyond the current physical body. You are not your body or your memories, thus you didn't reincarnate into this body or any past bodies.

according to all spiritual traditions this life is a kind of test, and there is reincarnation. This cannot be known, but if even the Buddha said it, we are not going to throw it to the ground either. according to that theory, if you take the shortcut and don't do your homework, there will be very unpleasant consequences for "you". what you have to do is fight for your life, and that's it. you have nothing to lose and there is nothing better to do

Should life be celebrated or should one try to escape samsara all together like Buddha suggests? According to buddhism, Buddha regarded even one moment in samsara to not be worth to be existing in it. Was Buddha overly dramatic ? Wouldn't total non attachment to samsara lead to indifference to life? According to Buddha we are in cycle of reincarnation in samsara rightnow. According to Buddha we should give all effort to escape samsara asap. Do you agree with Buddhas logic ?

I'm a big fan of the Matrix movies. I think the amalgam of action and existentialism draws me in. Are we living in a simulated reality? The whole idea of a simulated reality is predicated on being able to escape it; that it is actually possible to do or even desirable. Neo finds out it is possible to do despite finding it undesirable at first. If the desire increases enough then it will reach some threshold whereby there is no going back: a choice has to be made. Is it the red pill or the blue pill? I think that, already, if you know that it is possible to escape reality because you've glimpsed it, then the choice is already made and you've swallowed the red pill without knowing it. The other idea behind simulated reality is that it is being simulated by someone totally outside of the simulated reality. They are like the Gods on Mount Olympus whose soap opera has consequences for their creations. But unlike the Greek Gods our simulator overlords are shadowy and cryptic. Hope is not lost however because once we unplug from the simulation we become one of those Gods and we too can play with the simulation itself. It's the difference between being the user of an app and being the programmer of the app. The parallels with Enlightenment should be obvious because we are looking to "wake up" from reality. Once we have glimpsed the ox's tail we have already taken the red pill. One of the biggest drawbacks of the simulation hypothesis is the possibility of infinite regress. What if the simulators themselves are being simulated? How many levels of simulation could you wake up from? The unspoken problem here is the assumption that Thomas Anderson is Neo or knowing if Chuang Tzu was a human or a butterfly. If and when you awake from the simulation, do you in fact get to keep your identity or do you wake up as someone else? This idea is at the heart of reincarnation whereby some essence of you lingers when you wake up into your new body and reality. And this leads on to asking if consciousness itself persists after death or does the whole world (simulation) disappear with you? It may be that when Enlightenment occurs the old you will simply disappear and be thoroughly forgotten. But. Neo can always jack back into the simulation when he likes and he effectively lives in two different worlds. Enlightenment is not a one way street, you could have a foot in both worlds. This is what the quote "Before Enlightenment carry wood chop water. After Enlightenment carry wood chop water." means. The idea of infinite levels of simulation may also mean that there is not just one Enlightenment but many awakenings available to you. This actually seems sensible. There should be nothing special about where you wake up to, except maybe becoming a God comparatively. In fact in Neo's case his "real" reality is quite miserable and tough despite being a kind of God in the Matrix itself. What if there is no simulation? Until you awaken you won't know.