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Is selflessness / ego death / transcendence actually a thing? Something achievable by a human being? Or is our mind just tricking us? I want to start with a random example that came to mind, to make this more palpable. Let's imagine a little conversation Person1 says: "I believe that we should live life more like our ancestors did, I believe that this is how life was meant to be lived." Then Person2 says: "But, we came so far and we evolved so much as a society, we shouldn't limit ourselves to a simple lifestyle, we could do so much more, now that technology advanced to such a high level almost anything is possible!" Then Person3 says: "Well, Person2, You'd definitely like to believe that you're somehow special and [yadda yadda], but in reality that's just your ego being materialistic, in reality you don't even have free will / control over your actions. You should live life as purely and egoless as you can, and always seek consciousness, because transcending ego is the highest most fulfilling thing a human being can do. Only this way can you achieve true liberation, detach from any need and judgement and achieve TRUE " * I believe that Person3 here is what most spiritual teachers preach, as the core idea. Then I say, isn't all this talk about ego just more and more ego pleasing itself? It feel kind of good and "developed" to be thinking about how the ego works, right? But isn't that just more ego, tricking itself into thinking that he somehow surpassed itself? But wait a second, isn't this whole post about how ego tricks itself just more ego, feeling all warm and special because it thinks it actually is something greater? Can true liberation (or however you might want to call it) actually be achieved? If someone says that he or she had an enlightenment experience, tasted The Void, Infinity, is that actually true? In my current perception, liberation and clarity, which are the ultimate purpose of this spiritual work that we're doing here, cannot be experienced by a living human. By clarity I mean disidentification with anything, seeing EVERYTHING for what it is and not in relationship with this person here, not for what it can be for or against us. Therefore, as this human body is the machine that processes what happens in our field of awareness, and as its one and only goal is to keep itself alive and happy, it cannot grasp true clarity. Because clarity would mean ego death. But how can a person live without an ego? He simply wouldn't, he wouldn't do anything because there's no desire for anynthing, there's no good or bad, no motivation, nothing pressing it, nothing attracting it, nothing to make him gravitate towards anything. Also, I feel like choosing things like UNCONDITIONAL LOVE and PEACE (all brought to life from the same idea of egolessness as an achievalbe state for a human being) is highly convenient and preached by most spiritual teachers out there. Because this Nothingness has no reason to be attached to any quality or value, be it "good" or "bad". Because WHY WOULD IT? I'm not trying to say that seeking is pointless and that it won't get you anywhere, I'm only trying to point out something that doesn't feel justified but in spite of that it seems to be mistakenly promoted by the spiritual community. I believe that seeking definitely has its benefits and I'm REALLY grateful for somehow being on this path. I'm not ranting against self-actualization and I'm not saying "Oh, this is just wishful thinking, I have no control over life so I might as well just sit here and do nothing with this life, cuz we're just trapped in this big ego illusion". What I'm stressing here is that I believe we're looking at this journey as if it had a finish line, a certain level of development where one just becomes one with everything and detaches from selfishness and desire. Well, I'm calling bs on that, because I don't think that some construct such as ego, which (as I believe Leo would put it) is a SUBSET, can transcend to become Infinity, The SUPERSET. What I think is the problem with this way of seeing this path is that it WILL, at some point, create unrealistic expectations / a sense of inadequacy and therefore tons of suffering. It will make you judge yourself and other people for not fitting into this set of standards. Don't get me wrong, I believe it is good to keep raising our consciousness, learning and growing and developing and all the juicy stuff (I see the benefits of that), but I think we shouldn't have this image of the selfless all-loving monk that dedicates his entire life to enlightenment experience. Not to say there's something wrong with that, but just realize that if that's not the case for you there's no need to beat yourself up. I'm curious to see what you think about this one.

Hey, since a few months when I had a LSD trip I get glimpses in meditation that we are like tiny bubbles of experience, floating around in a vast infinite ocean of consciousness/nothingness. Anyone esle had this? Has it any truth? Or is it just a meaningless image that pops up from time to time

God is nothingness The success principles by Jack Canfield Mastery by Georg Leonard The big leap Psycho cybernetics

Hi guys, so this is my first post on the forum. So it seems like throughout my life I've made very few real social connections in my life. There are people that I've talked to out of convenience and for a long time I searched for people I could really connect with and form long lasting bonds with, However, even with my closer friends and relationships, they all seems to eventually fizzle out into nothingness. All of my experiences have left me in a state of half not wanting to try because the end result will be the same anyway and half wishing that I could make at least one genuine connection with someone even if only on a normal friendship level. I am very comfortable being on my own but I am very aware of the limits of trying to do everything by yourself. Though I don't want to be around people that hold me back either. Conflicting huh? lol I just wanted to know if anyone else on here have experienced this and overcome this issue somehow.

Hey. So I've done a summary of "Ten Bulls of Zen" (resource: https://beingwithoutself.files.wordpress.com/2011/07/tenoxpics.pdf) and it's still really hard to conceptualize it as it's extremely subtle. @Leo Gura and others who are familiar with this map, could you look at my summary and check if I get the definitions of Man, Ox and The Source correctly as well as the meaning of stages? When does Enlightenment happens exactly? Does it happen in the Stage 6 or Stage 8, or in other? Here's how I understand it: Man - "You" (Later evolves to "Spiritual You", then "Nothingness", then "Buddha") ? Ox - The teachings and practices of Enlightenment ? Source - Life is serving itself ? 1. Seeking Ox: Ego searches for the escape out of suffering (a.k.a. for True Self), but it's lost, all paths seems to lead to an dead-end. 2. Seeing Traces: Ego finds the hints of it's True Self in teachings. The right direction has been found. All is one? Where is the True Self? Starts inquiry. 3. Finding Ox: True Self is encountered. Taste of Enlightenment. 4. Catching Ox: Chasing the experiences of Enlightenment. Strong discord between Illusion and Truth arises taking you to the very heights and to the very depths of your mind. Easy to get into old ways. 5.Taming Ox: Ego and True Self go together with little resistance. Switching back and forth? With the proper tending, True Self follows of it's own accord. It is confirmed that it's not something you do, but something you are. 6. Returning Home, Riding Ox: Ego and True Self goes together with ease. The suffering is over. Peace of mind has been acquired. In the beginning every path lead to a dead-end, now every path leads home. No turning back. 7. Ox Forgotten, Man Remains: The teachings and practices has been transcended. They're no longer serving the Spiritual Ego. You're one with all and always were. Your life becomes meditation. No conflicting truths. 8. Man and Ox Both Forgotten: Enlightenment? "Spiritual You" disappear. State of Nothingness. Nothing to do. 9. Return to Origin, Back at Source: Life is observing itself. Life naturally starts to expressing itself for compassion. 10. Entering Market with Open Hands: Selfless service without a though of following such tracks. Not even an intent of saving others - life serves itself naturally. Free to care no strings attached. Note: Do not hang up on the portrayal of the stages, they are arbitrary. Everyone must go through themselves, no two paths are the same. However, the depictions and description are helpful signposts to warn us along the Way.

:)) If you know, that something happens, then you are aware of it. If you know, that you are walking to the bus stop, then you are aware of it. If you are so deeply submerged in your thoughts that you don't know what's happening around you, then all you know is thoughts, but you are perfectly aware of your thoughts. You see, awareness is always there, you cannot do anything to maintain it. Awareness is simply your reality in the here and now. And you are all of it! Look forward to the moment when you lose all your awareness, because that's the moment when your reality becomes Nothingness itself. That is an enlightenment experience!

Found an amazing read of experiences http://www.dmtsite.com/5-meo-dmt/experience/descriptions.html One in particular got me thinking, maybe when you take 5-meo you basically go back to singularity, and re-live and see the whole universe re-create itself as you visualize it into existence once again when coming down from the peak. It always fascinated me how everything eventually dissolves into nothingness, you have to re-create it to go back to where you took off. If you never came back, how would you know? Does that reality even exist? or is it pure imagination of self? One things for certain, we all should be extremely proud and grateful for where we are today and what we have come to be aware of One Love

That's what i think Enlightenment simply is IMO, Full (Possibly all 3) forms of DMT endogenously released all at once which becomes a direct connection to pure consciousness. Awakenings could be merely small releases from time to time yet we think when it happens we become Enlightened fully. I'd Assume the more evolved the energetic pattern/soul/spirit whatever you want to call it, the greater/deeper one can go thus more one can release at once. Tibetan monks that tried DMT explain it as the state of "Bardo" The Realm between life and death. The furthest one can go without losing the ability to come back. Which some usually state is the 5th dimension, sometimes 6th and some individuals extremely rare case can hit 7th(so they say) What arises to the question for me is yeah i been there and all of that but then how do you explain the state of absolute infinity? When you are there you "Know" so to speak you are beyond all dimensions/densities and beyond everything in ultimate nothingness? The infinite state some 5-Meo users explain, you literally become god itself, creator consciousness, you see, feel, understand through everything and everyone in existence and beyond 100% of the time all at once in infinite infiniteness. - There are no words.. I've awoken in that state with Normal DMT as my intention was just that. To be one with the infinite creator and show me everything i am ready to see. After all the hypnotic visuals, vibrations, sacred geometry, fractals, entities and so on after i reached complete surrender. I guess this is what is called a breakthrough dose on the Nexus. Some say Abyss/Void ect.. Who know's but i feel this year will be an amazing year of light and discovery on a mass scale. Its only the beginning All is well

You can awaken from it permanently. To awaken from a dream is to realize it isn't real. But life will still continue because life isn't separate from nothingness. Nonduality includes duality. Of course that body/mind could kill itself or perhaps "ascend". There are many reports of people ascending. So that may be an option. But don't get ahead of yourself. Catch a glimpse of what you are first.

I would sometimes ponder "What would it be like if the universe didn't exist?". Intuitively, this should be within the realm of possibility. These sometimes triggered a sense of "nothingness" in my mind that scared the shit out of me. It was impossible to imagine nothingness... to imagine anything at all was "something"! As I grew older, I stopped being able to tap into that sense, or perhaps I forgot. But now as I journey into spirituality and self-actualization, I am hoping to rediscover that sense of nothingness.

@Loreena Wrong question!! but if you really want to answer it, the answer would be nothingness or emptiness.

Nothing can be added to it, nothing can be substracted from it (Tawhid). Given its infinite character: everything can be added to it, everything can be substracted from it? I'm wondering: are there realizations somewhere in infinity where it would mean exactly the opposite? From a singularity perspective to a duality perspective? Is there more than duality? Is there triality? So is there more to it than Nothingness and Everythingness and Singularity? Would this not be possible within infinity?

Paradox is fundamental. Existence is basically paradoxical. Lets see some examples. Existence is all that is out there, but it is also identical to the Self (consciousness) that's "in" here. The Self is everything, it is infinite, but it is also a tiny point of nothingness. The Self is pure emptiness, yet it is everything at the same time, there is no space in it. There is unity, yet there is diversity. The Self is changeless background which experiences change, yet it is change itself. The world is illusory, yet there is nothing as solid as that. Mind conceals our true nature, but its the mind that takes us back there. Knowledge is ignorance, yet knowledge itself brings us out of ignorance. Realization is effortless and most natural, easier than breathing, but it also take a lot of effort and is immensely difficult. A seeker seeks that which he already is. All there is, is perfection, yet we see all sorts of imperfections around us. I'm sure there must be many more such paradoxes. The mind blowing thing is that we can see through them. IMO, these arise out of the limitations of mind, which tries to desperately make sense out of something which is beyond its capability, and lands into the pit of paradox instead. Those who think that they will find a definite answer to the hard questions will be disappointed. The answers are paradoxical, and sometimes there are no answers. Paradox appears as a rule rather than as exception. It is perfectly ok, but our mind is uncomfortable with it. The realization that (almost) everything is paradoxical, self contradictory, must be an indication of something. What is that something?

The most important backfiring mechanisms have to do with the inner workings of your mind: Your modes of thinking, your emotional reactions, your fears, your motivations and values, your habitual behavior patterns, your beliefs and justifications, your paradigms of reality, etc. As a simple example, how might valuing sex or money or security backfire? As a more advanced example, how might valuing spirituality or enlightenment backfire? As a general rule of thumb, once a system reaches sufficient complexity, the greatest danger to its survival becomes a backfiring of itself. A sort of collapsing under its own weight. Which is why to reach the greatest heights requires shedding egoic material, or purification to the point of nothingness or spirit. The word "spirit" connotes lightness of mechanism, and this is a good pointer of what you should be working towards. To be conscious, it to be able to see how a mechanism truly works, and its backfire potential.

From the perspective of using 5meo, what if any difference is there between "infinity/God" and what is "nothingness/the void"?

I really do think everything is connected. I think that frequencies, geometry, music all are interconnected. They all are based on "somethingness and nothingness". Music would be nothing without silence. You need silence for rhythm in beats, songs etc. Geometry would be nothing without nothingness. You need to have the nothingness in which geometry can be shown. Same goes for frequencies. This list can continue to infinity. Life is one beautiful dance between these two opposites, which are actually two sides of the same coin.

@Dodoster Thats right. Moving forward and going back to what Leo was saying in his video on Naive Realism, when we go to work and lock the door behind us and walk away, is your house still there? Your mind says, "of course, stupid, its right behind you". But what's there? Possibly a void of nothingness. The only thing real is what's right in front of you in the present moment, from your personal experience. The house exists as a concept now, a thought. If you turn around to see if your house is still there...boom! There it is. But something comes out of nothing, so.....maybe I'm just taking for granted that objects exist when not in my direct experience.

You may of heard the word Shiva, and may have a idea or something that springs to mind when you hear that word. I am going to shed some light, on this. Shiva, means that which is not. Its refering to The Nothingness everyone keeps on talking about. Shiva is that which has always been, and always will be, the very womb of existence. Without the earth, there is no human & animal life, Without the sun, there is no earth, Without our solar system, there is no sun, Without the universe there is no solar system, Without shiva there is no universe. It is everything. Who knows what eles is out there, who knows what other planets other life forms inhabit, how far does this stretch out to, does it go on forever? Never stops! And there are infinite planets & suns and life forms. I don't know. What I do know is shiva goes on forever and ever, because it is without form, so what could limit it. A limit is something that applies only to form. Limited in shape, size, duration and so on. But nothing? Well you figure it out for your self. Shiva is described as darkness, the reason being for this is, light is finite, a lightbulb and even the sun, will eventually die out, even something as powerful as the sun is still limited, to time. And will eventually lose its ability to give out light. So based on this quite Logical reasoning, its described as a infinite empty darkness. I wouldn't get to caught up on that though because your mind will create a image, and that which is imageless, can't be limited to a thought of darkness. it is that which everything manifest from, and that which all manifestations fall back into. Many words have been given, to this God, Tao, absolute ect. So every master is one who knows himself/herself as a expression of the devine shiva, And imbodies that consciousness, shiva consciousness, Christ consciousness, buddha mind and so on. You get the point. And when one has ego death meaning they literally, lose there experience of being themselves, they then know themselves as the infinite without question because they are it. Shiva also refers to a yogi who knew himself as the devine, thousands of years ago, but I won't go into that in this post. I have to give credit, to sadhguru who I learn this stuff from in a little ebook I was reading this morning, and I gave my own little twist on it. Hope you liked it. Peace

I know to the mind's eye this picture looks bleak, But it wasn't that way at all. Like I said it felt as if it was the source of everything. It felt like home. I remember when I experienced this void or nothingness that all questions fell away. It was if it knew everything and everything was taken care of. It was the most blissful thing I ever experienced. It was communicating with me without saying a word. What was it saying to me? "Don't worry, I got this" "I always have and always will"

@Visionary Yea, that's what I was thinking too, but I'm not sure. And I have experienced something that could be considered "the void" before on two occasions. It was empty, timeless and infinite. But it had a quality to it that is indescribable in words and it seemed to be the source of all things.. But since this 5meo experience of infinity and God came along that leo talks about, where does the void fit in? I posted a picture once of what I thought infinity looked like (from my direct experience) and Leo shot that right down saying that no way is infinity like that and it was full of colors, and infinite and anything but empty and it was god. So what's the truth? I'll post that picture of what I experienced as "the infinite void". It's called the "shiny black nothingness" and that describes it perfectly.

No, it's not. It's Nothing. And Nothingness is the one eternal constant. Experience is Everything, and it's impermanent and ever changing.

@brovakhiinIt holds some value as a model of the physical universe based on string theory, but leaves majority of questions unanswered (at least for me, I have not studied it deeply). It brings up more questions, like - is there is 2D matter of which this space is made of? From where such matter came? where is that 2D "space"? If it is consciousness, then it must be directly observable. If we are consciousness essentially then we should be able to experience the Self as a 2D plane. But we experience ourselves as 0D, non-local, non-spatial and timeless nothingness or emptiness when we reach our core. Anyhow, if the computations can be reduced to a 2D math, there is a potential to simulate those too. If it is just math, it doesn't matter how it is described, it must be computed, or in other words, must be manifested only via a simulation. That's my uneducated guess anyway

@John Flores You are 100% correct. I was just reminded of this in meditation in a huge way. A porthole of sorts to the infinite opened up within awareness and I totally choked. It was absolute nothingness. It looked like darkness within darkness from my ego's perspective. Man was that empty! The mind totally refuses to accept that level of emptiness. And I just got a glimpse from the outside and that shocked me instantly back into myself and it was gone in the blink of an eye. I see one thing clearly now. Anybody who can willingly let go of the ego and voluntarily step over that threshold to face that level of emptiness that awaits deserves to be called enlightened. People could read and study enlightenment and learn all there is to know about it and talk about it all they want, but when it really comes down to getting there it's all about faith in something way bigger than you. Only total surrender of self and nothing else will help you than. In the face of that your totally on your own. Either you surrender everything that is you or the journey ends right there and you remain as you are. So bottom line, when infinity presented itself, I totally choked by holding on to myself in the face of becoming nothing, and therefore everything. I guess I wasn't ready for that!

Nothingness must exist exercise Sit comfortably and quietly, still your mind, and become aware of direct experience. Notice that Nothing must exist for you to be aware of something. Notice in your visual field that there has to be Nothing in front of the thing you actually see for you to see it. If there was "something" in front of the thing you were seeing you would see that "something" and not the something that you do actually see. Notice that In your audio field there must be Nothing for you to hear what you actually hear. If there was "something" you would hear that "something" instead of the something you do actually hear. When hearing silence there must also be Nothing for you to be aware of it. Notice that in your body Nothing must pervade and filter through all the sensations you feel or else if "something" pervaded and filtered through what you were feeling you would feel that "something" instead of what you actually feel. Finally, notice that in your mind, in that dimension in which you are aware of thoughts, that there must also be Nothing for you to be aware of the thoughts you are actually aware of, or else if there was "something" you would observe that "something" instead of the thought you do actually observe. Nothingness must exist for us to be aware of anything at all.

Okay... This is weird. I am either blind or there is really no new video yet... I would not be very happy if Leo accidentaly killed himself by a psychedelics overdose or got ubducted by aliens or hit by a car or... Naaah... It is probably just another patience test... (the) nothing shatters everything (These are my thoughts from a couple days ago). I can´t have it both ways... It´s not possible that the world is just arising and made up by me, who does not exist and that at the same time it´s made of stuff like particles. If it comes from nothing, then it´s nothing, it can´t be there and not be there at the same time. This makes no sense. I thought that it exists on ONE level, even if it is just that level in which I am seeing it and I do not know what is true for that level but that there is the level above this in which it´s contained... But it turns out there is no container or contained. There is neither just part of what I thought there/real/true nor is all of what I thought, nor is there both something there and not, nor none. I don´t know what "existing" even means after this. The words, my thinking tools can´t help me. I´m getting shivers... How can this view possibly be freeing when it just shatters and takes EVERYTHING you know from you? It does not even leave a color to imagine, to picture nothingness with. Yes, on the one hand it´s all magical and mystic but this gets a taste of mad, alone and unsafe too. If I make the physical world up then there is nothing and nobody around, if I even make myself up then that is creepy. If I make this up I am the creator and engineer and I don´t even know what the fuck I am doing. It´s NOT empowering and changes nothing about the fact that I will eat, drink, shit, sleep or at least perceive to do so. Or is this supposed to take the fear of loss and death and failiure from me? Or is it supposed to disattach me from every belief I could cling on? This makes me unable to really keep seeing the world like pretty much everyone around me. This is something I can´t even tell anyone about because they will finally have evidence that I am nuts and you know what? I think that is what is happening right now, I am going nuts. I can´t do anything rather than bump against the borders of my own system, of crushing it and I can´t stomach that this is even possible. I have absolutely opposite feelings about this. It´s the BEST and the WORST and I kind of don´t want to lean into what it makes me feel because I am SO, SO terribly confused. I am getting auto immune issues from this. No joke. Ahahaha... Okay reading this about one week later I am entertained...