Search the Community

Please, let me being a smartass and criticize Ramana, just as an exercise. According his logic, if they put me inside a 1 cubic meter iron box in the sun at 45 degrees full of mosquitoes and rats for a month, I know it is temporary, so I would not suffer. He always says: ask yourself what you are. You are not the body, because it's temporary. You are not the mind. Neti neti. So what's left? Let's see. Knowing that you are not the body is an idea of the mind. Knowing that you are not the mind is also an idea. The understanding that you are the infinite void is also a deduction created by the mind. You are not the void. This is not true. You are something else very different. Let's imagine the possibility that Ramana was wrong. Don't you feel a feeling of , let's say, incompleteness, when you listen Ramana?

You most definitely can experience it through meditation alone. However, i would recommend neti-neti instead of do-nothing meditation.

Is it possible to become conscious of the Earth's rotation around the Sun and also the rotation and motion of the sun and stars that are moving in relation to the Earth and every other planet? To be conscious of the relative nature of time from the limited human expression to the whole of the universe. Like to have the eyes of awareness see the universe from a large grand scale. Imagine sitting down, then suddenly you are one with the universe, all the planets, stars, black holes ect... The Big bang isn't something that happened in the past! We are not separate from the universe, you are the planets motion and rotation, you are the expansion of the universe, you are this mind-blowing thing called reality. The same way we don't beat our hearts and grow our nails, reality is such that it is delicately balanced and mysterious. Leo can you make a guided visualization and meditation for insights that you've became conscious of into those questions you made a video about called " the 64 most fascinating questions a human being can ask". Pick a question in that video that you shared and became conscious of over the years and guide us please. Like your powerful neti neti video. Very powerful. It's interesting those questions I ask but I need a shift in my state of consciousness to gain some serious tractions in my contemplation and consciousness. Your ability to make guided inquiry and visualization videos are amazing.

Imagine a chamber full of lava that you gonna stay in it for eternity to suffer unimaginable levels of pain for an infinite amount of time. That's the classical religious hell as described in the Bible and the Qur’an. I always had fear of going to hell or experiencing hell . But I found a logical way to get myself out of this fear and I want to share it In case someone is having similar existential fears . But Just something that comes to mind.. according to Abrahamic religions (Judaism.. Christianity.. Islam) hell is supposed to be the judgment of an all loving all wise infinitely intelligent infinitely good God for your "wrong" deeds in this irrelevant preordained universe.....!!!!!!! Smells like bullshit right ? Doesn't make sense . I want you to go deeper within yourself . Because god or the source of existence is within. What do you intuite? What does your deepest deepest deepest intuitions tell you? Is the source of all creation truly a God or a devil? What " you" really are is that same source of all creation.. And that is nothing. Literally. Neti Neti .Not this or that. Not anything at all. a quote by robert adams :"All of life.. All of.. existence.. And anything possible.. Are just images on the screen of eternity." Identify with the screen and let all the other shit go. I've found an interesting discovery in neurology that make eternal suffering PHYSICALLY impossible. And also logically impossible. Because If an experience of pain is intensified to infinite degrees it will be no longer "pain". Right ?It will collapse and you won't feel anything. Just like when you get used to something you stop feeling it's presence after a while. That's why the idea of eternal religious hell doesn't make snse.. There is actually a "threshold of pain" in your brain. If the sensation is less or bigger than a certain range of electrical power.. You simply won't feel it. Read about it here : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threshold_of_pain Also I don't buy the reasoning "because God is infinity he must experience everything".. because god is not a dumb mechanical deterministic mathematical formula. Think about it.. if you are all powerful would you use your power to torture yourself forever? That means you are all-dumb as well 😂 But as far as I know God is all-intelligent!

Hi I really want opinions on that... I'm reading/practicing Neti Neti Meditation by Andre Doshim Halaw and that's really awesome. Did you use the technique and get an enlightenment experience? What's your thoughts on that? What's your results with Neti Neti? Love you all ♥

I've been getting more and more into spirituality to change myself for the better. In the last few weeks I've been ultra focused on being the observer, and distancing myself from the body (e.g. neti, neti method). I figured that the Neti Neti method would distance myself enough that I could act freely in the world and not be inhibited by fear and old habits. However, I've become unbalanced and feel like I'm going crazy now. I've had to take some time off work due to this (and maybe some burn out too). I haven't done a psychedelic in over a year. My mind races and feels unstable and I'm getting small anxiety attacks about "nothing being real". Other than taking a break from spirituality, and doing normal things like excersizing, socializing, and eating healthy, does anyone have any other advice? My doctor recommended chill pills and antianxiety meds and a psychologist. I don't want to go to the psych ward and I want to get back to work. Thank you!

I don't recommend the Neti-Neti method for letting go of fear. States of insanity are generated by high amounts of fear, I recommend laying off the other spiritual practices and only focusing on investigating into your fears. Do the investigations from a neutral observation, you don't need to engage very much in the investigations, just ask the questions and the answers and results come automatically. If the investigations into your negative fear based beliefs make the fear worse, I recommend just taking a break from all spiritual practice altogether until you re-stabilize.

It has been interesting seeing and understanding it from the inside. Going from atheistic to spiritual has revealed the level of self deception that everyone falls into. Being a left progressive hating the right and suddenly aligning with the right ( not identifying as) and hating the idiocy of the left but also transcending both to see and understand both perspectives to synthesise a higher vantage point and understand the dynamic leading to a love and acceptance of it all. Personal development and spirituality with hyper logic and reason alongside allowed me to remain vigilant but the one thing that showed me how delusional the spiritual community were was when my own beloved community started attacking people with gender disorders ( in conversation and debate) while I was sitting right there and known to them. It became clear that there was ‘religious’ infiltration of authentic spirituality which has slowly got worse over the last 5 years. Influence of individuals highly susceptible to belief who could be swayed by panic and fear despite the reality of the situation being a direct experience of me that had never caused a single problem… just thrown out the window with not an ounce of critical contemplation for a ‘let’s wipe them off the face of the earth because of the ‘agenda’ conspiracy. It was so easy for them to just play traitor to their values of live compassion and understanding. I love old Greek philosophy which painstakingly and methodically worked back to the ‘agathon’ ( source/infinity) using hyper logic and reason. Like platonic retroduction or the neti neti method. It was a very fast and intense pathway to having the elusive, sober glimpse of enlightenment. something I’ve been revered for teaching in my community and constantly tackling to bring them back into balance with. my personal battle is not devolving into any negative or judgmental mindset that would be associated with my characters predicament. At the end of the day, no one knows other than if I tell them which means it only exists as an idea. The reality is as I present to the world and even that doesn’t matter. What matters is that I remain balanced and continue to teach and encourage love compassion and understanding. If something is not known it is better to learn about it than become fearful and eventually hateful. It is all allowed and each individual won’t be coerced as it is their inherent right to just be until a time they are ready and enthusiastic to learn and discover, to become endlessly curious about everything. To find out how it works instead of forcing it to bend to their way. we learn and we teach but we never coerce a child to move beyond their educational level( people in general) and I found a lot of peace in that.

Not so easy, if fact quite difficult, placing yourself in the absolute perspective is done by first realizing that reality is unreal, of the total emptiness that underlies the appearance, then you realize the endless emptiness, and for that you have to be totally empty, without any mental grip, then the second step is to realize that in the emptiness is always you, and open that you, your true being, that expands limitlessly. that is the real, the absolute and what you or anything else is. It's not something obvious like oh, it was in front of my face and I didn't realize, then I did that neti neti thing and voila. no, there are energetic blockages, it's a real work.

I can't help but to feel Osho was quite the charlatan. Consider this: You can become so conscious you understand why your bathroom floor has 57 tiles and not 56. Not as a logical explanation like "Is because the building architect designed it like this". But in the way you understand why you live in at an apartment that has bathrooms with 57 tiles and not 56. This won´t come from logical deductions this will come only from inner consciousness and pure direct intelligence. Osho was still is in the beginner levels. A human is enhanced in much bigger possibilities than to arrive at this neti neti stuff of" there is no goal"

@Javfly33 It's simple, because you are the body. Not only the body, but also the body now. Those mystic who said netí netí, you are not the body, they are simply wrong. Sounds good, maybe I try the program. But wait, if you did, why you act like hysterical when someone says anything not wonderful about sadhguru? The program excludes that circumstance?

Quick Context Summary Sadhguru is empirically superior. Eat shit, Psychonauts! lol no, here's my studies YouTube sucks Cool, thanks. What are you on about? You druggie non-believers need some Jesus Sadhguru, he's Truth personified. Truth needs advocates? Why even bother with us? We're all connected, so you're my business. He's ain't non-dual enough, too Hindu aesthetic. It's not a set up, just a "conscious up". I hear crusade, he's got too many claims. np, Buck. I ain't no addic, cool robes btw. Guru Clothes Interesting, are many are missing out on the "new Jesus"? Try Kriya, it's about the techniques. Skepticism yay, cynicism nay. Sounds actualized resonant and like Neti Neti. Yeah, non-identity meditation type deal. Funny "organic" donation rags he's wearing. It's important for organic aura. You don't seek truth, just like the aesthetic. It's all truth-seeking, you have your own biases. Write coherently, stop beating 'round the bush & be honest. Truth is the Infinity beyond. Sadhguru is even better on acid lol

Interesting this definitely resonates with actualize.org members since Leo is also a big advocate of try things to see if they work. "I am not the body, I am not even the mind" is basically the Neti Neti method right?

Well....the cow. And his mother, as he said. Maybe he was deceived? Who knows, that about the netí neti always seemed to me a simplicity

@SageMind Which type of neti-neti are you doing?

@Leo Gura you think you can get an awakening experience with the guided neti neti you posted years ago?

Neti neti is not about programming yourself with a belief. It's more like a meditation where you detach yourself from any form as your identity. For neti neti to be effective you gotta do it in an intense, meditation retreat-like setting. If you do it intensely enough you should have an awakening event. This event is not a belief or concept or idea or conclusion. Hold no images in your mind of what you are.

Thanks for calling me normie lol. Looking back I think my particular case was a little more extreme than the average normie that stumbles upon relativism When I first realized the true nature of meaning, value, and purpose, it felt as if the very foundation of my reality had collapsed. Meditation already had begun this process, but your video on understanding these concepts burst my bubble in an aggressive and blunt way. Something which was definitely not the right time for or something that I was looking for at that moment, but I already was aware that curiosity kills the cat when I went down that rabbithole. It was as if knocking over the first domino led to the rapid, uncontrollable, unstoppable collapse of my entire conceptual framework of reality. Once I realized that certain things were mere social, cultural, linguistic or human constructs, it didn’t take long for me to question EVERYTHING ELSE in my life or that I was capable of thinking of, leaving me with a profound sense of absolute groundlessness, and a freedom SO VAST that it was ABSOLUTELY TERRYFING. One of the most insidious aspects of this relativism was how my ego hijacked it for self-serving purposes. When nothing holds inherent meaning, the ego can rationalize any behavior, no matter how destructive or self-defeating. I found myself trapped in this mindset, using relativism to justify my fears, addictions, and self-destructive habits. Even though I knew, on some level, that judgments, rejection, and failure "shouldn't matter," I remained paralyzed by these fears. The ego thrived on the infinite double standards relativism allowed, twisting logic to maintain its grip. I would rationalize that personal development was pointless, meaningless, and biased, making no sense to pursue. Growing up, I was deeply absorbed in video games. 10+ years of WoW. 5 years of LoL , besides of dozens of other videogames. The stories, quests, currencies, characters, competition, victories, defeats within those games were incredibly real to me, not just pixels on a screen. They provided real sense of progress, purpose and achievement. Realizing that these experiences were mere constructions was painful. It shattered the illusion I had built around them and took away a lot of enjoyment and escapism. Some realizations like that my parents gave me my name, and that it could have been anything else, as of today seems so obvious and a surface level insight, but it's actually not obvious. I bet more than 3/4 of the human population is not aware of that and truly belives their name is real and belongs to them. I realized that things don't have names, that we create them with arbitrary sounds and symbols and concepts, and that different things are called different ways in different languages, and we just use this system for comunication. It's not truth. I realized that morality, ethics, manners , good or bad are relative, that the law is groundless and relative ( and why it exists ) , that possessions aren't real but social and mental constructs, that countries don't exist, money is a construct, that time is subjective and age doesn't really exist. These realizations only worsened my sense of confusion and disorientation at the time. I was 21 years old and had just started living on my own for the first time, fresh out of school. The world of meanings that had defined my life—exams, grades and worrying about what my classmates thought of me—crumbled away. Academia and the sense of safety it provided revealed themselves to be nothing more than a game and an illusion. The importance I had placed on these things disintegrated, leaving me feeling utterly groundless and foolish, like I had wasted all that time. As this process unfolded, I came to a realization that no matter what happens, everything is "absolutely okay." This insight led me to stop inhibiting my impulses, which inevitably pulled me toward distractions, addictions, and comfort. Days turned into weeks, and weeks into months as time flew by, and I found myself increasingly detached from any sense of purpose or direction. I stopped judging and moralizing my actions, instead choosing to simply observe whatever I was doing and go with it. This approach dissolved much of the internal resistance I once felt and allowed me to sink deeper into the present moment, for better or worse, which ended up just leading me to seek out comfort and pleasure while avoiding discomfort and pain. For weeks, I would lie in bed, utterly unmotivated and aimless. The female attention and aprooval I once craved stopped being meaningful. I convinced myself that day and night didn’t truly exist, so there was no reason to wake up at any specific time. I saw no point in maintaining basic hygiene or even wearing clothes the "right" way. I would go to the supermarket unshowered, wearing dirty clothes, messy hair and shirts backwards and inside out , rationalizing that there was no right or wrong way to dress. When I had a part time job at a restaurant, I remember letting some customers walk away without paying because in my mind it didn't matter. My sense of self-importance crumbled as well. I realized I was no more significant than a fly or a cockroach, and this realization left me feeling profoundly insignificant and purposeless. Even ending my own life literally didn't make sense, something I never considered seriously. This extreme relativism led me to a state of profound laziness but also access to unconditional happiness. I found that I could lie in bed for months, feeling ecstatic, almost like what I imagine being high on heroin is like, without needing to do anything to achieve this happiness. This was an absolute ambition killer. The sense of meaninglessness was so deeply embedded in my mind that any attempt to take action felt like a distraction, causing emotional resistance. It was as if taking any step away from doing nothing would shatter the fragile peace I had found in this state of inaction. I didn't know who or what I was anymore. I realized that identity, what you yourself identify as, is absolutely groundless and are just meaningless or self-constructed labels. The one thing that didn't crumble was my sexuality. I considered that if absolute relativity is true then everyone is in actuality pansexuaI. But in practice I was just not attracted to men. Period. I didn't need identify as a man , adult or human for the validity truthfulness of my feelings of attraction and preference to whatever I perceived as an attractive female. This shift also marked a clear and sharp transition from analytical thinking to a primarily intuitive approach to life. Intuition gradually became my core mode of operation, guiding my decisions and shaping my reality. I began to connect with and respect my emotions in a way I hadn’t before. Emotions became central to my experience, driving my choices and dictating how I engaged with the world. At that time, this intuitive, emotion-driven way of living was deeply ingrained in me, and emotions, feelings, and intuition were the only ground I could rely on. The descent into relativism also isolated me from others, as I saw them as characters in a game - NPCs, unaware of the constructed nature of their realities. It was a lonely existence, like living in a "Truman Show" where everyone else was oblivious to the truth. Every person I encountered was locked into their own paradigm of understanding the world, unconscious of the constructed nature of their reality. No one would understand me. I couldn't relate to anyone and actually people would judge me and reject me for thinking or talking in these ways. People said I was depressed, when actually I felt more sane than them but confused. This descent into nihilism and relativism eventually pushed me toward "mysticism". As I understood the nature of meaning, language, and concepts, I also deeply understood I didn’t know what anything was anymore; I faced deep not-knowing. I intuitively began practicing "neti neti" meditation and "actuality meditation," which led to temporary heightened states of consciousness and experiences of non-symbolic awareness. These practices helped me trascend the conceptual limits of the mind and connect with a reality beyond words, thoughts and even perception, leading to things like seeing the ox' tail with what I think is a samaddhi experience ( this entire " perception bubble" is made out of the" same stuff" , even "me", the observer, is made out of the same " stuff ") , the insight that thoughts literally APPEAR INTO EXISTENCE from pure nothingness in the most direct way possible, and later some accidental astral projection. I also realized that non-duallity is so non dual it entails duallity, which just mindf*cked me again, and that I was engaging in spiritual bypasing. Eventually, though the pass of time, the school of hard knocks, awareness , trial and error and tremendous amounts of confusion and needless suffering, , I began to see that while all things might be meaningless, there is a universal law of cause and effect. Both cause and effect are meaningless in themselves, but they have real consequences nevertheless, and I personally have real preferences toward certain consequences over others. To deny that would be self-deception. It's obvious but it did not make sense for so long. For instance, I would rather be free than in jail. This is a child-mind level insight I had to re-learn. I realized that being bummed out by meaninglesness is a mental fallacy. Meaninglesness is meaninglessness, not negative. These realizations helped me begin to rebuild my life by recognizing that life itself operates with a deeper intelligence that transcends these constructs, with inherent logic and rules that we discover through trial and error and direct experience. I realized that relativism doesn’t hold up in the practical world; it’s only a limitation of the mind, logic, conceptual frameworks, and language. Being locked in this experience and perspective of being · an alive human being · comes with specific biases and preferences. Something obvious but aparently, not so obvious. This going full cirlcle understanding allowed me to see the limits of Relativism and Nihilism : They overlook nature's nature. hence my signature

I have linked from timestamp 9:46, where he talks about the Orthodox church. You might find similarities with Nonduality, sounds a lot like Neti-neti / not this not this / self inquiry. Sounds a lot like truth, and not just trying to manipulate people into joining their religion out of fear of punishment or promise of rewards. It seems very honest. When people deny Christianity altogether, they might be throwing out the baby with the bathwater. The bathwater being the egoically corrupted interpretations of Christianity, and the baby being the true Christianity.

I cant get past feeling that "I" (whatever that is) is located within my body. I realize how I am not actually my body. But I sure as hell feel located within it. Help me understand why that's wrong.

Mostly. There are different versions of what Wilber calls Causal States. Cessation/Nirodha: Totally appearanceless "film-break" like cessation. Timeless/always here/Nothingness nature emphasized. Time needs appearance/objects/"movement"/change, no appearance/objects is timeless/always here. These states also clearly show that if nothing arises there is no self-consciousness. ( https://www.actualized.org/forum/search/?&q=pistol&author=Water by the River , thx Benthino for the water pistol). Pure Infinite Awareness/Being with the potential of sentience, but not self-consciousness. That comes later. Which is pretty much a shocker, since it shows that any form of self-consciousness ego/separate-self is a) arising/appearing b) temporary c) True YOU is always "there", existence itself. Even if nothing arises/appears. That empties out the remnants of the separate-self/ego as appearing/constructed and removes the remaining separate-self-identity pretty effectively when coming out of cessation. Nirodha is the big/longer brother of cessation. Causal states with awareness (Infinite (timeless) Darkness suffused with light): Then there are causal states that are infinite/timeless, but self-aware. For example what Tibetan called the Clear Light state (Tummo, Bardo, Near Death). For example something a Neurologist (who had an NDE) for example described as "Infinite Darkness suffused with light". These states can also be experienced passing from dreaming to causal states to dreaming to waking up. One can have these states also with psychedelics, see Chris Bache Diamonds from Heaven. Aware Deep Sleep: Then there is Deep Sleep as not loosing awareness (and hence timeless, no duration experienced) as described by Thisdell, above. Causal States eyes open. And then you have totally empty impersonal states with no separate self arising WHILE the visual field appears. These are also linked by some to Nirvikalpa since there is no separate-ego-anything left, its the totally impersonal Totality/Reality arising by Itself. That is why Ken Wilber called the total empty/flat-lining state (EEG) some kind of Nirvikalpa "eyes-open". These are the true nondual IMPERSONAL states of Enlightenment. Only when having passed these causal states is it truly nondual impersonal Enlightenment/Infinite Impersonal Being. Before that, it is a Unity with the Infinite Nondual Field, and the character/ego hijacking that experience and interpreting it. Very common with certain substances, and easily confused with the final outcome of the total transcendence of the ego/separate-self purified by the experience of these totally empty states (hey, "I" wasn't there, what am I really? For sure not that temporarily appearing character-gig, because that wasn't there. And what I really am has to be the case always, even if there is no self-consciousness or consciousness OF anything at all, aka cessation or deep unaware sleep. That paves the way to true impersonal Enlightenment, realizing ones identity truly is this Infinite Nothingness which can never be any arising/appearance at all. The Infinite Absolute Being/Reality beyond any expierence/arising, timeless and eternal). And the Awareness of that Infinite Reality/Being can also be kept alive if the character reappears, the EEG shows something again. But then, this character/personality has a similiar status as for example your car: It appears in your Infinite Being/visual field, you look "out from it" while driving, but most definitely you are not (only) your car, but the whole appearing show/Infinite Being/Infinite Existing, the screen and the appearing show. Wilber Nirvikalpa eyes open/eyes closed: But the term Nirvikalpa has been used for millenia, so you can for sure find cases where its used for cessation/Nirodha and eyes open causal impersonal states, deep sleep, and anything in between. What is more important is what these causal states really can do: Kill the ego/separate-self-arising-illusions for good, because they show that these are temporary arising illusion-clouds, nothing more. Not by having these a few times, aber after experiencing them often and coming out of them and seeing the ego reassemble itself in real-time often enough can even get the hardest ego-illusions to wonder about their "reality". See below. When training via concentration meditation, it is easier to reach Cessation than reaching True Nondual Enlightenment while the visual field still appears. Because the mechanism of the ego-cloud-separation-arisings is not yet fully transcended. The mere appearance character, the Infinite impersonal field, the eternal/timeless background-nature of True Being is not yet reached while the visual field is there/daily life. That comes later. Later developed forms of Buddhism (Zen, Mahayana, Tibetan Buddhism, aka Mahamudra/Dzogchen) directly aim for the Nondual Realization. They know cessation states and achieve them, but don't value these as ultimate goal. Which makes sense, because if one can enter Nirvana/Nirvikalpha on command, its nice then, and later on the still well and alive ego and its cycles of contraction/suffering kill all the oh so nice Nirvana again. But shutting the whole enchilada including the ego down in causal states is a very good tool. Not necessary, but very useful. These statements are in line with the statements and experiences of modern Theravada-teachers and realizers like Ingram, Yang, Burbea, Taft, Thisdell and so on. And that is why I prefer Mahamudra/Dzogchen (for example Pointing out the Great Way, Brown). More on that below in the footnote 1. The relations of these states get clear once the timless Absolute Reality/Being is intuited as always here. Deep Sleep is so to say is always right here. Since what you really are is always right here, as it is in deep sleep. Infinite eternal Consciousness/Being which is totally empty and impersonal if no separate-self illusion arises. The tree watching itself, fully aware of its temporaray/passing/illusory nature. And that which is always the case, eternally so, True Being, fully understands itself then. Because there exists nothing else that could understand itself besides THIS of which nothing can be said, only pointed towards. So what is it that reads these words right here, right now? What is IT/You truly? Starting out to write a short answer answer, ending up with a Filibustero. Oh well, maybe its helpful for some. Selling Causal States as the final coup de grace for the separate self-character-gig/ego by The River Ok, it had to be coming: WtbtR now with footnotes. Guess not for the faint of hearted. Footnote 1: The original "Buddhas" Enlightenment-doctrine was Cessation/Causal-based, not Full Nondual (impersonal) Enlightenment in daily life. The original Buddhas Enlightenment was Cessation/Causal-based (Nirvana-based, "Nirvana separate from Samsara"). Which is still a conditioned state, bringing a lot of liberation from grasping, but not fully and in daily life. Separate-Self/Ego not fully transcended/dead in daily life. The breakthrough to True (impersonal) Nondual Realization in official doctrine came later with Nagarjuna and Madhymaka/Middle Path: True Nondual impersonal Enlightenment which could be sustained in daily life/with visual field. And while Madhyamaka tended to not say anything at all about the Absolute (neti neti, no concepts can be applied for the Absolute, which technically is correct), later forms of Buddhisms like Yogachara said that (in truly enlightened impersonal nondual states) Infinite Consciousness/Infinite Being IS an expression of the true state of things, and everything appearing is mere appearance (or "imagined"). See for example "Consciousness only school", for example Huang Po's Universal Mind, or the (very humble) Supreme Source "I am the teacher, pure and total consciousness, whence everything manifests. Pure and total consciousness is the supreme source, it has created the Buddhas of the three times, from it have arisen the beings of the three worlds and the whole animate and inanimate universe". God-Realization (TM) approved. Forms of Buddhism stemming from the original buddhist teachings (causal teachings, sometimes called Hinayana school, which doesn't exist anymore), like for example Theravada/Thai Buddhism Forest Tradition (and Ingram/Yang/Burbea/Taft) mainly trace themselves from these forms (although all are adding some form of Dzogchen and similiar stuff), don't stem from the the Mahayana Revolution of Middle Way/Madhyamaka/Nagarjuna), and YET end up at Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation. And for sure in the original Buddhism some realized Nondual Enlightenment and not only cessation, but that didn't find its way into the official doctrine until much later. And that (besides that the original Buddha probably didn't exist because its the same story Jainism tells about its founder) makes me smile when there "Buddhism"-trashing. Its like trashing "religion". Which kind of religion? Polytheism? Ancestor-cult? Monotheism? Polytheism? Who cares, lets trash the rodents... So, now WbtR made it: Neither "Buddhist" like him anymore, nor the no-rodent crowd. Guess its "Viel Feind, viel Ehr!". Something we Germans are quite talented in. Oh well...

Imagine... We are on a forum called Actualized. We agree that there is something like Infinite Being. Absolute Reality. Which can be realized in Awakened Nondual States. Which (as a lucky coincidence) are also supposed the reduce suffering dramatically. At least according to the testament of thousands of people over the millenia. And more or less the only way to generate stable nondual awakened states in daily life is meditation. Or cutting off the internal bla-bla that most of the time talks me/mine. And this me/mine is by definition a part, a broken fractal of Infinite Being. Contemplation will never cause the awakened nondual states that are necessary for the realization of Infinite Being. At least for all non-prodigies. Contemplation is a necessary and good starting point. And it comes in every tradition I am aware of before serious meditation starts. It is ok if one doesn't have the discipline or Karma to seriously engage in this path. Or engage it later. But belittling meditation and/or those who actually seriously engage in it... oh well. Brings great Karma for sure. Something to think about? How did this kind of contemplation work so far in creating serious nondual awakened states? And no, small you is not everything. That is just new cloths for the conceptual identity of a separate-self. Why is it that every single meditation tradition does something like neti-neti to get rid of false identity (and any identity at all btw., since Infinite Being has no Identity)? Well, I guess you are young. Life automatically brings along some crocodiles that bite sufficiently enough to challenge any assumption that contemplation alone is enough. The smart way is to start meditating before the crocodiles show up. Because... ... there are crocodiles in the River, that will always bite every single being, sooner or later.

I did the Neti Neti method while on psychedelics and meditating. It was very powerful.

"It" is. Always there. Infinite, boundless. Groundless. Any boundary would appear within "It". "It" is Infinite Reality itself. "It" is Nothing when no appearances arise. Nothingness. Groundless. Void and empty. Not even space. Yet, "It" is everything as soon as appearance appears. Without appearance, there is no time. "It" is not even self-aware then. Yet, "It" is always "there". "It" has the potential for awareness if some appearances arise, and for self-awareness if I-thought/I-feelings arise as appearances. "It" doesn't arise. There is no beginning to "It". Who or what would watch "Its" arising? Only "It", the only Awareness. "It" is fundamental. It can not not "be there". "It" can't go anywhere. Anywhere would be imagined within it. "It" can't end, since It would perceive its own end, and so it wouldn't end. Nor begin. Before any appearance, "It" is. After any appearance dissolves, "It" "is" still there. Neither existing (as anything), nor non-existing. Words of time loose there meaning, because "It" is more fundamental than time, since there is no time without changing appearances, or "objects". "It" is Infinite Consciousness, Infinite Universal Reality/Being. And "It" is "You". Capital Y, True you. Impersonal You. Or better, "not-only-personal"-True You. But nondual, Infinite Being, big You. Not small/illusion you, but that which is always there. Even in deep sleep. Impersonal. Infinite. Immortal. "It" looks through all eyes, is the essence of every being and every appearance. And to do that, "It" needs to be impersonal. Only impersonal (not-only-personal, but universal and fully empty) Awareness is "compatible" to look out through all "personal/individuated/not-empty" eyes/beings/perspectives. "It" holds all perspectives, looks through all eyes at the same moment (not sequentially), but forgets these "dimensions" of all the other perspectives "real-time". "It" imagines the clouds covering True Being/Infinite Awareness, hiding "It" in the clouds of solidity, materiality, duality and separation. Magnificent illusions. "It" plays a game of hide and seek with "Itself". When one has access to verify that sobre anytime one feels into "the" Infinite (which means that one fully realize the structure of ones own perspective ("subject" and all appearances, truly nondual) and has access to that realization anytime (nondual, infinite, mere appearance, impersonal, groundless ,Awake).... this realization is the case for each and any being, since "It" is boundless , infinite and limitless. There is nothing besides "It". N+1. ... one walks in the home one never really left. There is nothing else, nor can't be. The only price: The frog has to jump fully into the mixer and see whats still left of its essence. And THAT is it. Neti Neti until Infinite Being is realized without the clouds of boundaries, separation and duality. And the crocodiles ensure that at one point. One lifetime, the frog actually gives up resisting and playing games, gets rid of the last clouds of duality, and jumps in the mixer. And finds out that the frog never really existed, only appeared to do so. And then the former frog (Which never actually was a frog) wins the ultimate price: Everything. Each and any possible universe arises in Infinite Being, as Infinite Being. Since there is nothing besides "It", nor could be. The mixer only appears as mixer before the Gateless Gate. Beyond the Gateless Gate, it was just the wind that has blewn away all the clouds of duality and ignorance. So who is reading these words right here, right now? Offering best-practice mixers by the River

I have watched leo's videos on the Neti Neti technique and I want to make it a habit but I have a few questions is the Neti Neti technique supposed to be a contemplation exercise using words and saying things like "where is the perceiver?" or "this isn't me". this seems quite different from others forms of meditation where I want to quite my mind. Can I do this while doing basic tasks like waling and driving? is 20 minutes a day a good start? should this be more of a repetition thing asking the same body parts and ego parts if they are me or should it try and explore. Is brute repetition key or is it more just sitting and contemplating whatever comes to mind first? when I first watched his videos on the self, and asking where "I" am at that time I felt confident that I knew where "I" was and that was the head, but then later this conceptual idea loosened a bit and now my conceptual idea is that I am nothing, However I still feel like this could be hiding something. My intellectual idea of my ego is hiding behind my own vale of spiritualty and most likely is still about the same but is just pretending that I am nothing. How should I proceed? Any other tips on how to make this a habit and do it regularly? Thank you