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Good link. This passage on 'Do nothing meditation' helped answer my question: "This meditation is closely related to the Advaitic practice of neti-neti ("not this, not that") and to the practie of Self Inquiry as taught by Ramana Maharshi. The techniques are somewhat different, but the intention and outcome are very similar." So, maybe it's down to individual preference whether you use 'do nothing' meditation or self inquiry to realise your true nature. I'm wondering if the best approach would be to just use the hardcore self inquiry method Leo outlines where you fix your awareness on awareness, with no 'letting go' involved. Plus it's also building your concentration skill and helping to calm the mind. I think I remember Adya saying something about the 'letting go' being important though, as the universe's nature is acceptance.

@seeking_brilliance No point in beating yourself up. During mind attacks, you can deliberately try neti neti which I found helpful. Consciously watch your thoughts and label them as 'known', while 'you' remain aware of both that thought and labeling. No need to suppress the thoughts, just see the relationship of yourself with thoughts, which is You Awareness is untouched and unaffected by thoughts. That is dis-identicafcation developing... @SoonHei Exactly! Actually that 'knowing' part of any experience IS the infinite Self This right here is the very heart of ignorance. Why do you automatically superimpose body-mind's limitations on Awareness? It's a thought that is conceptualizing changing mental states as the changing of Awareness.

Yeah, this is the whole trick with self-inquiry: the mind refuses to stay with the emptiness because it needs some image to grasp. Everything you wrote is the noise of the mind. Look past all that towards the emptiness and just try to observe it without worry or mind noise. This takes lots of practice, focus, and patience. Yes, this is Neti Neti. The emptiness cannot be found in the conventional sense of finding a physical object. Something radically new must click. What are you beneath all that mind noise and doubt? What is observing the noise? Stay on that with steadiness. Try to keep the mind very calm. You want to hit a silent observer state. Observe observation itself. You are observation itself. But what is observation?? Don't think the answer -- observe! You will definitely fall into the trap of intellectualizing emptiness over and over again thousands of times before you learn not to do that. Remember this is like a live scientific experiment. You are working in the labrabory of your own mind.

After watching today's video, I'm worried that I'm intellectualizing the idea of awareness, emptiness, true self, etc and that I'm going to do it wrong for a decade before I realize. I'm concerned my mind is making false sensations or images of the emptiness, and I can't seem to get past the tricks of my mind. When I try to sense the emptiness inside my head, I go inside and try to see what the "perceiver" is that links at the deepest level to my senses like sight, hearing, and smell, and the general idea of being "concious". It gives me a weird feeling like there's a vacuum or negative pressure inside my head that's sucking my head and ear canals in on itself. That's a sensation so I know that definitely can't be it. When I try to sense the emptiness outside of myself, it's still just a single point of "nothingness" I'm imagining in space in front of me, as opposed so something that permeates everything. Even if I think I'm feeling pure awareness or stillness, it still seems like there's a physical sensation associated with that. How do I know for sure that I'm finding true emptiness / awareness / true self, instead of it just being my mind tricking me? Am I supposed to be able to find it? Or is this some neti neti thing where I'm supposed to struggle to find it for hundreds of hours, and then it will just suddenly click?

@FoxFoxFox I first heard it from Rupert Spira. See if it resonates with you or not. Atma-Vichara or Self-inquiry really has 2 faces which complement one another. 1) the 1st part is actually the philosophical and experiential inquiry and seeing what you are not (neti neti). In this step, you see that everything you are aware of cannot be you. Thus you come to the conclusion that you wrote where you don't identify with anything but yet still 'I AM' is undoubtedly present. This is what Rupert calls establishing the Presence of dis-identified, formless Awareness. We all have glimpses of it through self-inquiry. In the modern advaita scene, this is what is regarded as Enlightenment but actual Advaita Vedanta doesn't acknowledge that. There is another step to go. 2) the 2nd step is where your understanding permeates completely with the 'Nature' of this Awareness. At this step Atma-vichara becomes self-abidance, not repeated questioning and dis-identifying as you've already done that. Now you can just go to that dis-identified Awareness in less than a second. This step involves just this: As this abidance deepens continuously, the inherent nature of Awareness like unlocatedness, undisturbed, having no lack, fulfilled in itself, utterly one with experience aka love etc. are recognized and these qualities permeate the entirety of your experience, leaving no possibility of doubts whatsoever. This right here, the exploration and abidance in the nature of Awareness is regarded as Enlightenment according to the scriptures. You are not intellectually brainwashing yourself or trying to find the promised bliss. It all results spontaneously from being with this dis-identified 'I AM' knowledge. So as you can see, anyone can question openmindedly and have a glimpse of the 1st step. But that's not Enlightenment yet. It's the abidance and marinating on this knowing that results in Enlightenment. And that usually takes time (1-3 years depending on how serious and how constantly you're doing it without re-identifying with new objects)

Yeah,the "seeing what I'm not" way is negation or neti-neti(not this,not that). I spent close to a year doing Kriya yoga and mantra meditation before taking on inquiry. Those practices cultivated the inner silence to where the self inquiry,direct path way could be done with minimal friction. Vedanta or self inquiry is notorious for being one of the more difficult ways because it uses only the mind/intellect to get liberation. Even Ramana stated "Nevertheless, Self-Enquiry is not for the faint hearted—it is for those who truly wish to go all the way home: “It is intended only for ripe souls,and Bhagavan conceded that some devotees need to adopt less direct methods more suited to their spiritual development."

You are that which is not... Neti Neti 1. "Who Am I? I am not; the five cognitive sense organs, i.e., the senses of hearing, touch, sight, taste, and smell, which apprehend their respective objects, i.e., sound, touch, color, taste, and odor, I am not; the five conative sense organs, i.e., the organs of speech, locomotion, grasping, excretion, and procreation, which have as their respective functions speaking, moving, grasping, excreting, and enjoying, I am not; the five vital airs, prāṇa, etc., which perform respectively the five functions of in-breathing, etc., I am not; even the mind which thinks, I am not; the nescience too, which is endowed only with the residual impressions of objects, and in which there are no objects and no functions, I am not. 2. If I am none of these, then who am I? After negating all of the above-mentioned as “not this, not this,” that Awareness which alone remains—that I am."

Thanks for the link! I'll definitely check it out. I've seen DH mentioned a few times in this forum but didn't really looked into his method. For me, I'm really grateful towards Rupert Spira for bringing all this home at an intellectual level very satisfactorily. So I kind of exhausted my superficial search for more content and now just get back to the most potent resources(books, videos etc) that feel right for me over and over again. It's basically self-inquiry, do or die for me now haha.. And about mystical experiences, 'something' does stick. It's not just the fireworks that pass away. I feel the wisdom-discrimination(neti neti) growing as time passes. All the best with your journey. Just keep your 'head' up. Remember, it usually hits when you least expect it And I'll reply back once I finish that video

I found a Buddha quote(hope it's his ), which I think is so critical for serious open minded inquiry, how the ruthless observation and dis-identification should go on. ''The very idea of existence implies a dwelling place, therefore its clinging. Both 'is' and 'is not' are a dualism that has no room in true mind (subtle consciousness, the mind without beginning) " - The Buddha It is basically the same instruction of how true neti neti(self-inquiry) should go on(which is an vedanta technique). It's just that hindus form a metaphysical absolute background called Brahman(or pure existence) for the purpose of teaching but Buddhists don't make such an assumption. Yes Brahman is an assumption, the same way 'Nirvana' is also an assumption. But they must inevitably reach to the same placeless place.

Brahman is Existence itself. So there can be no whole or part or absolute or relative when it comes to Brahman. That's why it is incommunicable and unbelievable. Anyone pushing you to believe what Brahman actually IS, is trying to sell his/her pitch to you. You can never 'know' what Brahman is, because you are it! But you can intellectually know what Brahman is not (neti neti). That's just another pointer in the path and ultimately a misconception. There is not a thing called Atman to be dissolved into a 2nd thing called Brahman. Through Enlightenment, both ignorance and enlightenment are recognized as non-existent. It was a helpful pointer on the path, but was never the Truth.

I discovered this cool way to do neti neti... forgive me if something like this was already posted! So you stand in the sun, arms wide to your sides or hanging comfortably, standing as balanced and comfortably as you can. Now the idea is to feel into the space that sorrounds you and goes through you. The idea is that every single perception occurs within this space. Your visual field, the things you hear, the feelings in your body, even your thoughts occur in some space usually in what seems to be the space in your head. Now try to feel into this space and as such into all these perceptions at once trying to keep a relatively calm mind. Now with conviction think to yourself "not me" since you know that you cant be anything you observe... Now genuinly ask "what am i? And boom, theres a good chance you´ll pop into your nothingness, asboluteness.

@Girzo what would you recommend from your experience? @Leo Gura I will try to buy your booklist soon as i can . I am 19 but very serious about this doing your neti neti and self inquiry for 2 - 3 hours every day but its frustrating i am rly in state of not knowing only awareness is present so i am not sure am i doing it right. Thank you for your free videos

Good point. I try to be mindful if there is attachment and identification to experiences and beliefs. If so, can I let go of my identication with the experience? I’d sprinkle a little neti neti dust on it.

@winterknight You gave me best explanation on self inquiry and it is the only effective method for me Thank you!! Who am I alone is confusing your way is simplistic and i am able to rest as awareness What about sri nisargadatta’s only focusing on I Am or Neti Neti etc is it less useful?

@Shin I read in a book (probably "Neti-Neti Meditation") 3 stages: 1. Duality 2. Non-Duality 3. Nothingness

Actually both affirmation and negation techniques have it's place in Vedic tradition. The seeker would affirm ''I am HE'' or ''I am BRAHMAN'' as a mantra million times a day in meditation. The seeker would do neti neti (negation); which is mentally negating everything in present experience that is not me. Ramana Maharshi criticized both these techniques as not being direct enough. He said when you ask ''Who am I?'', you are not after an affirmation or answer like ''I am Brahman'' nor you just mentally label things as ''not me not me''. ''Who am I?'' is a question that invites you to take a silent journey deeper and deeper into your present experience...this is what Ramana Maharshi declared as the most direct path. With that being said, neti neti is a very helpful technique that refines intellect to discriminate between the Seer and the seen. It builds a solid intellectual foundation and later helps a lot in self inquiry.

You've got it spot on my friend! The very purpose of doing neti neti is to refine the intellect more and more. Normally, a person is totally identified with the contents of his experience. At one point, this discrimination skill gets so sharp that clever thoughts like 'I want enlightnement' and intellect itself is seen as another subtle object. At this point, neti neti collapses as a mental labeling or intellectual categorizing. A holistic, pure, effortless Witnessing takes place. This is what J. Krishnamurti called choiceless Awareness. It was always there, now it shines and you know it first hand. Great that you've had this breakthrough

This has helped me quite a bit so far but right now I have to say "this happens in the intellect" does not have to be true any longer for me. And I think neti neti has a limitation in there, as long as the intellect is involved. Only when I let go of the intellect, of the desire to discriminate or do anything, could I go deeper. But it's also important to say that this feels like a progression. First discrimination was crucial, now I see even it standing in the way. Same with the general idea of "I want to become enlightened" - very important in the beginning but huge obstacle later on. At least for me.

@Jack River I would also say, perhaps you should try neti-neti method yourself? To get your other questions answered. I'm just not sure what you're asking really.

@Jack River It's done through refined intellect or clear seeing without any judgement. Anything that is perceivable or conceivable is seen as unreal because they are all subject to change. If this process is consciously kept up, all 'objects' of Consciousness are seen as unreal and only Pure Consciousness remains. The self ceases to identify itself with any object ever again and shines as THE SELF. It was always THE SELF...it only appeared as the ego self due to ignorant identification. When that spell of ignorance is broken, only the Absolute is... That's when neti neti spontaneously comes to its end and what is prevails as it always is.

Jack river- "Neti neti, meaning, "Not this, not this", is the method of Vedic analysis of negation. It is a keynote of Vedic inquiry. With its aid the Jnani negates identification with all things of this world which is not the Atman, in this way he negates the Anatman. Through this gradual process he negates the mind and transcends all worldly experiences that are negated till nothing remains but the Self. He attains union with the Absolute by denying the body, name, form, intellect, senses and all limiting adjuncts and discovers what remains, the true "I" alone." https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neti_neti

@Anna1 how does that go again? Neti Neti ? What kind of questions do you ask?

@Jack River That's a different conversation. I didn't say anything about "who am i"? I was referring to neti-neti (not this, not that), which is "now" (present moment), not past.

@SoonHei Oh yes, I've tried it out lol. I do like it. I'm just wondering if it can both double as an emotional mastery and self-inquiry practice. I've never formally done any self-inquiry like neti neti or anything, so I couldn't really compare the two.

@Serotoninluv Well now I've actually experienced some real, tangible effects from my meditation I'm in it for the long haul. I was operating on faith before somewhat but I've been feeling high for two days straight now and my awareness is as sharp as a blade so I want more, more, give me MORE haha, na I know its not good to chase these states as firstly you can't rely on them and secondly they're a distraction on not the real deal, so I've read. Adyashanti warns against chasing feel-good states, seeing as your real, true state - the enlightened you, as you put it, is stateless. I think that's what he said anyway. The insights you mention, which come when your mind is empty...do you wait until after the meditation to contemplate them, or do you follow them when they occur? Or maybe they don't require any further contemplation. I'm just confused about how meditation, which is supposed to be about becoming 'thoughtless,' (unless you're doing neti neti or whatever) can be used for insights...