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Right. Why do we conclude the Nothingness/Consciousness/Being as a GOD? Why Consciousness/Nothingness/being Can not be the creation of GOD?

@Leo Gura if that is the case. God is one and everything. which means God is corona virus, god is every bacteria in the toilet, evey stool etc. I like @Muhammad Jawad expressions. "What if we are misunderstanding the Our Nothingness / Consciousness with GOD? What If I (Consciousness /Being) is not GOD but I (Consciousness /Being) is a Creation of GOD from his infinite creations? What is Nothingness is actually our last boundary wall or our ultimate limitation from which we can't go beyond?"

The limitation is only of the explanation. Not of the experience(State-less, Experience-less, Non-Experience) itself. A person who has tasted sugar does not need to question about the sweetness of the sugar. Only the person who has never tasted sweetness before will keep on wondering about the sweet taste. It is guaranteed that he is never going to understand it through spoken words in the form of theoretical knowledge. Direct experience of tasting the sweetness and intellectualizing about it through words are two different things existentially. Just like a colour blind person will never understand the meaning of color and visual reality by even an infinite amount of words with which one can explain it to him. Similarly, it is said that, an unenlightened person will never understand The Non-Duality - Labelled as NON-DUALITY, BRAHMAN, GOD, NOTHINGNESS, EVERYTHINGNESS(ONENESS), etc.. which are just labels. These words don't mean anything by themselves. Just tools used by individuated(Having a formed Mind) creatures to communicate about IT. The only way to understand it is by direct experience. But, the real pickle is: Even in direct experience, it can present itself as anything and everything. It can present itself as Non-Dual Oneness; Nothingness; A GOD with a form as devotees experience it; A GOD but creation done with a separate agency; A GOD without agency; and infinite other formful or formless or something else.. something else... ways. Like mentioned above you can certainly experience exactly the way you are thinking about it. But then, that would just be a single way out of infinite other ways you can experience it. BRAHMAN / GOD can always one up against itself. There is no restriction as to what or how it can be and cannot be. It is something that doesn't have a particular designation, label, form, reality, truth, or anything for that matter. It is the very essence of the word Mystery. Even Unreality is just a state it can take; Even formlessness is just a state it can take; even Non-Existence is just a state it can take; even STATE is just a state it can present itself as. With it.. Eveything is... Without it.. Nothing is.. NOT EVEN NOTHINGNESS. Being from a Hindu background and having seen many sages from hinduism as well as other religions describing their experience of BRAHMAN / GOD as variegated ways through out history for thousands of years, and seeing each of them having unwavering faith in explaining what they experienced to be utter TRUTH and REAL. This has been confirmed that such is the case by Ramakrishna Paramahamsa by veryfing a few of these ways by direct experience. There are others sages in the past who have also been both Devotionalists as well as Non-Dualists at the same time. My present undersanding of it is that GOD / BRAHMAN is like how I have described above. Of course there is much more to each of the ways it presents itself. But, the only way I can make sense of all of it is as I explained above. One thing is for sure. There is no THE GOD or A GOD. There is just IT which presents itself as THIS & THAT. Any experience of experiencing THE GOD or A GOD is just simply a single way it is presenting itself.

GOD is infinite imagination so it is not a particular thing at all, existence is so intervowen and complex that it cant be understod, it is like conciousness has infinite layers in it, creation happens in infinite dimensions everywhere, but what the true form of GOD is , is light, you never see light , you see illumination of objects and things, God is formless LIGHT, and in it there are infinite possibilitys of everything, like an usb so full of everything that it loops back around and is the creation but at the same time transcendent of IT. God is not limited to anything, God is the awareness which shines light on infinite mind and creativity and order and CHAOS. But GOD is limited to 1 thing, and that is it's oneness or that it IS, it can not not be. Thats why there is 1 ABSOLUTE Reality and our universe is a relative thing. Nothingness and everythingness is something GOD imagines. Prior to imagination there is : ___

Thanks. I also like the ocean analogy. What if ("Being/Consciousness/Nothingness" is the ocean and manifestation is the waves of the ocean. The ocean is eternal and every wave is waving, and "Being" is not limited by any wave, and at the same time, the waves are the motion of "Being", but not directly "Being" itself in that sense.) all that phenomena of being are the creation of God? I am trying.... :-) Right

Is this a belief, Delusion, imagination, or Truth? How can we make sure that Smadhi experienced by people is GOD? Through Spiritual Practices or Psychedelics, you realize that you are not the body, mind instead you are Observer, Everything, Nothingness, Void, One with everything. Ok, We can agree that we are transparent, formless, conscious, Pure Being and we have the power to imagine and create anything like body, mind, and world. Why do we say that that powerful being is God but not the creation of God?

@Muhammad Jawad this nothingness, pure consciousness or awareness what the Gnostic call it is soul. the divine half aspect of God. the soul or higher self is all knowing consciousness but lack conscious mind. for because of this it granted unconscious mind. as substitute for the conscious mind. gnostic cosmology says God emanate himself in different order, at some order this corruptions occurred. gnostic cosmology says christ emanate different beings that are God's and sons of Gods, and at some order this corruption occurred. so we cannot say everthing is God because we are emanations of God. I agree with your idea completely "What if we misunderstood the Nothingness/Consciousness with God" we are half aspect of God by our soul, our soul is the half part of God, she God in essence but lack the conscious mind half part. Reading gnostic scripture will help.

Right. What if you (Nothingness/Consciousness/Being) is not God but the creation of God?

Hi Leo! I hope you are doing well. Is it not possible for God to limit his own infinity & then create a Void Nothingness or something outside apart separate from him and then create beings and creations and universes there in that void? Can you please help me to explain it in a bit more detail? I will be really thankful to you. I am really sorry for bothering you. Thanks

Just having nicely conversation brother. But truth hurts leo thats why he is offended and took it aggressively. “i” did. Enlightenment is way deeper and permanent. There is no “you” nor life, universe thats what enlightenment is. But psychedelics all the times gives you “my experience “. There is no “you”. And with psychedelics you can never “be”, because thought process goes on goes on goes on non stop. “You” name and label the “experience “ non stop. Anything you experienced is not enlightenment. Nothingness can not be experienced, can just “be”.

So I like to make music and I was for a long time on a plateau but this day I started to make progress again. So I didnt wanted to go to sleep, I was having fun making music. After 30 hours I decided to lie down on my bed, to close my eyes and to play some beautiful music. [Little backstory: My only psychedelic I ever took was Ayahuasca and at that time the trip wasnt really that much visual, when I closed my eyes I could see the color purple in motion, I could hear stuff and feel my body becoming strong like a jaguar and after a while I trapped myself in a horrible thought loop but I was able to break through and experience Nothingness/ Emptiness/ Ego-Death but only for 3 minutes. But yeah there was no time of course and I laughed like a maniac. Now I just have this all as a memory in my head. Before Ayahuasca I liked to flirt with spirituality but one time I surrendered my whole body and was able to see time stop, hear reeaaallly good and having mild visual hallucinations.] So back to the story: I never had that much of visual hallucinations (not that I remember right now) but now I started to getting them. They looked exactly like those Dmt/Ayahuasca visuals: Especially the one with the snakes. So I saw a lot of diffrent colors and animals like : birds, a fox, a butterfly, an Octopus, those snakes and at the end a dragon that looked like this: The visuals were continously in motion and changed always to something new. (A few times the color red started to get more intense and transformed to red flowers.) Well in shamanism do animals play a big role so after that I opened my eyes again and started to look in the internet what the messages behind the visuals may be. Then I closed my eyes again and started to feel energy in my third eye and I saw the color purple and yellow in motion, it looked like a spiral. After all that I didnt wanted this anymore because my heart was beating faster but I was also calm at the same time and tired lol. So I decided to stop focusing and to just fall asleep. I am kind of curious what you guys think about this and felt like sharing. Maybe you know something I dont know, feel free to tell me. Namaste.

@Intraplanetary yes. Awakening and mental illness is the story of “I”. “Thinker” is a thought itself. Whatever you have learned since your “birth” (including the birth) is an illusion. There is no such a thing as birth, learning vs. You are already what you are (nothingness), only way to be what you are is “not knowing” as before so called birth. Surrender and let go whatever you have learned and know since “your birth”. Whatever left is what you really are. Dont get confuse with story of ego such as;

Your answer is “Nothing has ever happened”. Because, therefore there is no such a thing as something, i am nothing, and all there is “me”. No “nothingness “ can not be “experience “, can just “be”. Therefore anything “you” “experience “ is an illusion. Have a direct realization. Additionally, there is no such a thing as “I”, “life” or “death”. It’s clear see that you are stuck in duality, because “you” still think that you born and in the universe. That’s the reason why “i” and “death” is still “exist” for you.

Moksha, I hear what you're saying, and I understand ultimate reality is beyond concept and even experience. Yet, somehow "infinite consciousness" seems to be within the realm of at least peak states. I guess my disillusionment comes from the idea that even these "seemingly infinite" states are deconstructable, and that after doing so you are left with just the statement "Reality is neither ___ nor NOT ___" for any blank. This feels unsatisfying, as it applies even to God, the godhead, Nothingness, and consciousness itself. Kind of leaves me with the same big QUESTION MARK that I started this journey with. Also, how does 4th path enlightenment relate to realizations of various facets of enlightenment through contemplation / self-inquiry?

@xxxx 1- Heaven is surrendering, ego is suffering or hell. 2- No. 3- God is nothingness. There is no such a thing as another dimension, infinite, human vs. No self is love. 4- Freedom, effortlessness, bliss, compassion. 5- letting go of the ego. There is no “me” nor “you”. You are the “bliss, happiness and love ”. 6- Life is suffering. Enlightenment is end of suffering, which is end of life too. Everything is temporary, except nothingness.

January update: Returning to source Something about returning to source has hit home for me. Practices: One month of daily Do Nothing meditation One month of daily enlightenment exercises (Deepak Chopra) Daily walks, readings, regular yoga Continuation of Abraham Hicks allowing (wow this does really work) Regular art practices - drawing and printing Update: In deep meditation I sensed and felt infinity, a beautiful whirling space of nothingness and everythingness. I felt a pull to it but as soon as I began conceptualising what it was, of course it slipped out of grasp. There are days when ego has a tight grip and days when source is there. The path becomes another conceptual form. I know I'm breaking free and watching the chaos around me. I sense a time to ramp up my practices and a pull to creativity as this is my life purpose.

I was watching a documentary of Sri Ramana Maharshi. I was really getting into something profound, you know. I could really feel all my fucking reality melting down into I. However, at one time i got very uneasy... i don't know how to explain tbh. We all know when ego feels a bit triggered, but this one was different. It was like the pointer was maybe to much to him and the false identity wanted to get out of there. The fact is, I stopped watching and went to play videogame and things to distract the mind to be fair; however how the fuck I'm gonna run from myself. Anyway, could you give more insights about what happened? I may have an understanding, but I'm sure there is someone that has a deeper understanding of this phenomena. Any adive also to let go when literally you are dying and you are melting into nothingness? Obviusly go with the flow but i feel like all those advice are pretty much meaningless when you are actually in the situation. Looking forward your answers

You are so stuck in your no self brother. This is just thoughts and you dont know shit what will happen. This no self bullshit buddhism and so forth is not the original teachings of the Buddha, this is nihilistic new age bullshit. If you really wanna go so far, you are the Absolute. But GOD is real and is the opposite from the Absolute but it is still the same thing just different versions of reality. Infinite conciousness is a thing, even if the Absolute is untouched, conciousness is isness and will always be isness, thats what god does, it is limited to ISNESS itself. Which is everything, but you still can witness it, so what you are is the Absolute. You are like an materialist which claims conciousness is an illusion. WAKE UP. Awareness IS. Always. this is from direct experience. Nothing but imagination and speculation from ur part. Reality is EVERYTHING, can you get it? Obviously you limit reality down to no self lol. Anatta in ancient pali is VIA NEGATIVA, buddha didnt teach that no self is the highest, the soul IS. NO SELF cant transcend anything. The Self is the Absolute. Pure awareness shining on its own. You think the buddha taught the cosmic oblivion lol.. The nihilistic atheistic view, that the " creation" came from non existence.. Infinite nothingness is not NON EXISTENCE. IT IS PURE AWARENESS. Not no self bullshit. no self is the psycho physical body. Form is anatta IE no self, but atman is the soul.

@Mu_ has pointed out the things I wanted to say. However, I'll add a few things here: This is a healthy discussion, and I shall be glad to hear your insights. When you said that God is no more peace than it is anguish, etc., - I am not talking about peace as an emotion here --- it is a constant state of being akin to death. You asked what happiness it --- and this, manifestation of peace, according to me, is eternal happiness; conversely, we are all immersed in a rather fragile physical body, so we have limits. Most of these aforementioned 'negative' states of being scream of the limits of our existence, and we, end up catering to what we know best about, that is going to help alleviate the pressures of life, and term it happiness, through the process of gain and loss; in the sense that we try to constantly seek something above us, in a search for hope, that will serve as an emollient to these wounds that the society inflicts upon us. I am not telling that suffering, pain, etc., is not a manifestation of God. Of course, it exists, and in the meta perspective, it is God that is responsible for this --- but we are the limited expression of God --- the true nature that I was talking about is devoid of humanness --- for there's an infinite amount of existence that isn't human. We are just specks here --- albeit, it is very real for us. Imagine a sage sitting atop a mountain, having retired from the morbid constraints of everyday life --- they have chosen to let go of these attachments, and if the suffering arises, anyway - they are going to live with it, and even die with it, in peace, happily. (Check this article out: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/02/04/the-curious-tale-of-the-200-year-old-mummified-monk-reportedly-frozen-in-a-lotus-position/) I think, suffering arises out of our reluctance to accept the reality; that can be very difficult, too. I am not telling that I will not fall into the clutches of adversity, if they are presented to me while I am embedded in this finite form --- I am very much likely to fall prey to it. I cannot exist within the society and not expect the society to royally fuck me up. Nonetheless, it is definitely possible to experience that eternal happiness; the criteria being that you have to be completely detached from your humanness, and get into, quite literally, the God-mode. . For example: After meditating, does it have an effect on your overall well-being; at least for a short span of time, wherein, post that feeling of nothingness or peace, the emotional manifestation of it, i.e., happiness, pervades throughout, slightly nudging you into the state of complete acceptance, giving rise to a feeling of joy? Yes, this may be ephemeral. However, this can very much be eternal, too. . Also, just tell me, if it were not for other humans influencing us, would these exist, at all --- stress, murder, rape, theft, etc. Then, in terms of disasters --- would it matter to you if there's a crazy tsunami on some exoplanet, then? To what degree would this affect you? Cancer --- correct me if I am wrong here: how much of a human doing is this, owing to our lifestyles, etc.? Disability --- what if you see a dog that is blind or without any limbs? Do you think that dog is always in the mode of suffering? Hell --- who makes life hell? How do you define hell? If something threatens your egoic survival, is it hell? What I am trying to say is that these are our limits, not the complete picture. God exists in it, and very much, infinitely, out of it, as well. Yes, this understanding might be termed a utopia, but tell me, what about God isn’t a utopia? . Let me know what you think about this. Shall be happy to learn.

@Kalki Avatar This is death its relative. its infinity. The enlightnment, in part is realizing that. That is the Nothingness. There is nothing to compare it to. Death is an illusion. Self improve has many degrees, and vectors. It is also relative. Not just self deconstruction, though that is important too.

Okay, I'll try my best to break this down: God, in the ultimate sense is peace - therefore, at our core, beyond these human limits, our truth is peace alone. When we meditate, we feel no emotion - we become nothingness, a neutrality, and there's an acceptance of this infinite oneness. True happiness - that is, an eternal state of happiness is a derivative of peace. We humans, operate out of feelings, and act upon them, right? We are, at the end of the day, God in a limited form - a God that is living through us, through feelings. If we use our senses, we feel; feelings are nothing but a reaction. Say, you stay in that state of complete acceptance of nothingness, you transcend your limited form, and become one with God. You, technically, arrive at death, right? Now, through this unification and oneness, you shall realize that everything is you, and you are everything. You decide to come back, to live through God, in this limited form - a limited form that is nothing but a bundle of feelings - you use your senses, and they stimulate you; feelings are a reaction, we know that --- so, when you realize this infinite vastness, and that everything is you alone, your reaction is of pure infinite happiness and love. Here, the wall is you, the car is you, that dead animal on the street is you, the magnificent house is you, the grain of rice is you, your phone is you, that annoying aunt who talks a lot is you, haha! When you realize that everything is you, would you need anything to make you feel happy, at all? . I hope I was pellucid in my elucidation this time. . Other than that, @allislove's explanation is very good, too.

Realization of nothing has ever happened. You are already what you are, which is nothingness, which is not knowing as in the beginning. therefore nothingness can not be “experienced”, can just “be”.Anything that “you” “experienced” is an illusion.

Yes i agree. Thoughts are illusion. You can say no thoughts or no mind. But, not knowing is more profound. Not knowing is what “being” is, same as before so called “birth”. When you not know, what is a thought? What is mind? What is attachment, death, or life? Nothingness can not be “experienced” (because “I” and “experiencing “ is still a thought) can just “be” ( being is just being, there is no question nor answer).

I have been what one would call a Psychonaut for around 7 years now. It all started when I started getting interested in lucid dreaming & astral projection. It was crazy to me that these things were possible. This path killed my major depressive disorder & suicidal tendencies because it made me realize there is more to life than I thought. However, I had no idea there was such a thing as ''Enlightenment'' until about a year ago. Sure, I had experimented with psychedelics before but they had never induced a Mystical experience or ego death. This might be some sort of ''newbie'' question: Recently, I had around 2 grams of magic mushrooms and at some point, I felt like everything was about to disappear. Not only my ego, but also everything I could see, hear, touch... I mean the material/physical world itself. I was about to vanish into 'nothingness'. Obviously, this scared me and a fight or flight response kicked in. It felt like I was about to die, it felt like a physical threat. I fought for hours and didn't let it happen. Is that what people refer to as ego death? How does one learn to let go in these kind of situations?

And you didn't read the long version? Maybe check it out This part from the end of the book was so intense. I think many here can relate that to some experiences...: Is this a hallucination? "Charlie, are you all right?" Or the things described by the mystics? I hear a voice but I don't want to answer him. It annoys me that he is there. I've got to ignore him. Be passive and let this - whatever it is - fill me with the light and absorb me into itself. "What do you see, Charlie? What's the matter?" * Upward, moving like a leaf in an upcurrent of warm air. Speeding, the atoms of my body hurtling away from each other. I grow lighter, less dense, and larger... larger... exploding outward into the sun. I am an expanding universe swimming upward in a silent sea. Small at first, encompassing with my body, the room, the building, the city, the country, until I know that if I look down I will see my shadow blotting out the earth. Light and unfeeling. Drifting and expanding through time and space. And then, as I know I am about to pierce the crust of existence, like a flying fish leaping out of the sea, I feel the pull from below. It annoys me. I want to shake it off. On the verge of blending with the universe I hear the whispers around the ridges of consciousness. And that ever-so-slight tug holds me to the finite and mortal world below. Slowly, as waves recede, my expanding spirit shrinks back into earthly dimensions - not voluntarily, because I would prefer to lose myself, but I am pulled from below, back to myself, into myself, so that for just one moment I am on the couch again, fitting the fingers of my awareness into the glove of my flesh. And I know I can move this finger or wink that eye - if I want to. But I don't want to move. I will not move! I wait, and leave myself open, passive, to whatever this experience means. Charlie doesn't want me to pierce the upper curtain of the mind. Charlie doesn't want to know what lies beyond. Does he fear seeing God? Or seeing nothing? As I lie here waiting, the moment passes during which I am myself in myself, and again I lose all feeling of body or sensation. Charlie is drawing me down into myself. I stare inward in the center of my unseeing eye at the red spot that transforms itself into a multipetaled flower - the shimmering, swirling, luminescent flower that lies deep in the core of my unconscious. I am shrinking. Not in the sense of the atoms of my body becoming closer and more dense, but a fusion - as the atoms of my-self merge into microcosm. There will be great heat and unbearable light - the hell within hell - but I don't look at the light, only at the flower, unmultiplying, undividing itself back from the many toward one. And for an instant the shimmering flower turns into the golden disk twirling on a string, and then to the bubble of swirling rainbows, and finally I am back in the cave where everything is quiet and dark and I swim the wet labyrinth searching for one to receive me... embrace me... absorb me... into itself. That I may begin. In the core I see the light again, an opening in the darkest of caves, now tiny and far away - through the wrong end of a telescope - brilliant, blinding, shimmering, and once again the multipetaled flower (swirling lotus - that floats near the entrance of the unconscious). At the entrance of that cave I will find the answer, if I dare go back and plunge through it into the grotto of light and beyond. Not yet! I am afraid. Not of life, or death, or nothingness, but of wasting it as if I had never been. And as I start through the opening, I feel the pressure around me, propelling me in violent wavelike motions toward the mouth of the cave. It's too small! I can't get through! And suddenly I am hurled against the walls, again and again, and forced through the opening where the light threatens to burst my eyes. Again, I know I will pierce the crust into that holy light. More than I can bear. Pain as I have never known, and coldness, and nausea, and the great buzzing over my head flapping like a thousand wings. I open my eyes, blinded by the intense light. And flail the air and tremble and scream. * I came out of it at the insistence of a hand shaking me roughly. Dr. Strauss.