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It is different in the way it is felt. So for me is different. I prefer samadhi than stressing myself and having anxiety attacks. You could say is all the same but personally I do have a preference in preferring the samadhi and I do not think that is selfish but rather the intelligence within choosing. I must be very alone in this path. Razard, CarlRichard and You seem to think the same way. (in another post I also had this argument with them) Ime There is a difference between the source and thoughts. The proof is you can be hours without thoughts, but thoughts can not happen without You. For me this is the proof I obviously not the thoughts, thoughts are a creation and a compulsion within me. Sadhguru said thoughts or 'disturbances' happen because the source of creation which is pure intelligence sacrifices this intelligence for action (karma). So basically every time you identify yourself with a limited happening that is karma, because you just abandoned yourself (Pure Bliss, Nothingness, Non Existence becomes compression, something, existence) So basically it is in the forgetting of one self that one creates a reality and gets entangled in it. That is not my experience, but if that is yours That´s also another perspective, yes. I was understanding samadhi as no mind. My point is openness happens when mind is stilled and no disturbance happens.

The something doesn't comes , it's absolute, it exists without beginning, "comes from nothing" implies Beginning of the infinity. What I meant is that a thought is the same than everything else, a thought is the infinity, the whole thing There is nothing different than the reality, a point in the empty space is the whole infinity, a though, anything, nothing is "another thing" of "just a thought" Darkness or light are appearances in the infinity, the infinity is not "something", or "nothing", or any dimension, it's the reality, in the reality emptiness could appear, but that emptiness is permeated of the nature of the reality. That nature is you, nothing different than you, only this exist, it's the absolute being, that is the absolute source because has not limits, void or empty means nothing, are the same, light, dark, full, something, nothing, all are. Be mean that are everything, nothing is except the being, what is not the being doesn't exist, it's absolutely obvious, the nothingness is the being then it's exactly the same than a rat, or a thought, or a galaxy, different dimensions between infinite dimensions

Couldn´t something be a proyection of nothing? Then you are accepting here indeed the something is coming from nothing. So you accept reality is nothing. You just said before that the mirage is the product of the thought: So the mirage is NOT you. The mirage is something is created, is a consequence, a product. Is not fundamental to reality. What I´m saying is, what is fundamental is nothingness, the blackness. Without a darkness you can not have light.

Are they synonymous?

Id say ultimately the experience of being nothing is what I am. Thats why we can not find a self for much that we try, because there isn't any. Nothingness, fullness, Infinity, Who cares about words, I absolutely agree with you in the fact that everything is Alive. But my point is, what are we? What is this "aliveness" or Infinity? Is Nothing, is Empty, is black hole, we are free

Fake. Nothingness doesn't exist. The thing is absolutely obvious, the reality is unlimited, and because this it is. You are, that's the "mystery", but itsnt a mystery, because is the inevitable consequence of the absence of limits. If you expand the void to infinity, it's full, absolutely full of you, the existence, the inexhaustible source. There are not limits, the nothingness is limited, and sadhguru....well, I don't know, i was listening this about nothingness, the galaxies etc, and is he joking? He doesn't understand nothing! The reality is not the matter or the energy, is the existence, the being. Any empty point in the space is infinite and full of everything. Everything is infinite, that's why everything is alive

If you annihilate yourself from existence (not just dying as a body, but truly as a Being you dissolve into Nothingness/Bliss), others part of you that are still not conscious enough will still carry a body and might even reincarnate into other forms. This does not change there is still only one being, but the one being is infinite and infinitely fragmented (this is before Awakening), so some parts will realize before Others. Infinity is awakening at different times, some parts Awaken before others. This was necessary in order to create a reality with apparent duality in the first place. For a race to make sense some must reach the finish line before others, and vice versa.

Osho says Buddha calls Nothingness. Moreover, Shadguru says about Krishnamurti king of intelligent, and about Osho king of contradiction.

I If there is light, then it's something. I know exactly how enlightenment happens, it's exactly like this: First you empty your mind completely until nothing remains, not even the sensation of the body or the breath. The void is absolute and has no limits. You are not there, there is no you as a person who thinks, who analyzes or feels, it is absolute emptiness. If this is maintained long enough the void opens itself and reveals itself as absolute existence, total potential. It becomes totally evident that reality flows in only one direction, the expansive direction of being. The absolute being has no opposite and therefore its expansion is total, it is absolute life, and that is what we are. Obviously this is not "nothing", since "nothing" would be something limited, it excludes "something". There are no limits therefore if you expand nothingness to infinity it becomes "something". in fact it becomes "everything." I have had this process at least 50 times, it is something quite simple, you just have to empty your mind absolutely and the total source, that is, you, manifests.

He is saying "For 32 years, i have been absolutely nothing. Deeper you go , the more you find yourself empty and.ultimately you find yourself just as zero and that's the point of enlightenment. You have disappeared. There is only light life infinite eternal. But, You are not there as a person. Buddha call it Nothingness, nirvana. Ultimate goal to be is nothing and it is never fill with anything". Idk what else to say to you. Do you need subtitles?

So is reincarnation true? Is there life after death. I want you to contemplate the following quote: "Think of it like this: Before you were born, you were in a state of nonexistence/nothingness -- kind of like how you might imagine death to be. But yet, you were born from this nothingness. It is like you were in death already and yet you came to be! Death is fertile for birth. After you die, you do a similar process as you did when you were born. The Universe knows no time. Eternity is at the blink of an eye. This is one life out of an infinite that you'll live. Existence is the miracle. The Universe is Magic! Welcome to the game of Eternity." In this way, death can be understood as the reset for rebirth. You could be dead for a billion years, but yet, the time between your death and the next life would be as if no time passed at all just like in your sleep. When you die, it will be as if you never even lived, but it will also be as if you never died either. You've lived an infinite number of past lives already, but to live this life requires you to forget all the others. Is reincarnation true? Well, what is the alternative? That you die and never wake up? Or that you wake up from nothingness just as you have already done before? How is it even possible that you were born in the first place? Do you see how existence is like rolling a double six. It might be improbable, but the Universe is eternal. That means that it has eternity to make the 1/10000000000000000000000000000000 probability happen. This 1/10000000000000000000000000000000 is life itself. No other planet that we know of has life on it. The Universe will keep rolling until it hits the 1/10000000000000000000000000000000. But it will be as if life is a given. It will be as if rolling a double six was meant to be. If the Universe is eternal, then it makes sense that life, no matter how improbable it is, will inevitably exist. Life is inevitable because of eternity. In the same way, how could your rebirth not be inevitable because of Eternity?

You are treating variables as though they add to one another, are conjoined, but they are mutually defined, connected and are dualities of one distributed entity. A sum of added parts / coinciding parts were one of the worst tragedies that happened to our intellectual circuits, they are effectively enforced accidents (inessentials) where any one part forcefully exists independently of the others. The modern language we use comes with the accident of every one combination of words that expresses meaning, the syntax of the sentence, and I believe this has forced us to think more syntactically about memories, the hypothesis from this is that tribes that only think by hieroglyphs or single words think wholes and are able to "see" the whole through the parts, that they think holistically because the accidental relations between things have not been forced on them through the way in which syntax of language efficiently allows one to think utterly differentiated things, partially from ones will and woe, at various points of the day or week which when generalised into entailments would be tremendously inconsistent with each other. When we employ immense amounts of conceptual thinking the inherent connections between parts can reemerge, where their distinction is falsified through investigation into the ground for abstractions (phenomenology, axiomatics and memories), such that nothingness derive from logical negation, negation derive from spontaneous distinction, ones sense of self is the same as others, limits unified with conditions, body identical with mind, the future identical with the past, space the same as time, algebra the same as geometry, energy as the same as space-time, logic as the same as identity etc.

Pure energy-flow... Or undistorted (undisturbed) light. Quite contrary to the concept of light that you're used to. It's not daylight nor sunshine that I'm talking about. But the actual light which is unreflected, not refracted, light in its pure transparent state of being. In this sense you may understand that the original light has neither form or colour – it's only quality being the pure flow of energy. And that's it. That's nothingness. But also, that's you without the potential for love, or rather, the activity of love. Think about the word infinity again. Look at it as if it's the first time learning of the word. And begin to decipher it as though you were a student of a foreign language: You begin with finity , understanding it as the quality of being finite. What has this quality of finitude if not everything we experience? Every thing is finite. Because every thing is form, and all form is, as you've probably learned by now, limited. So finity = form = something = a perturbation of some sort. Then you begin to decipher infinity: in-finity – a direct contradiction to that quality of finitude – meaning thusly without form, without limitation, without anything, for all things are forms. So what is infinite? Nothing really. Nothing except for light. Light is totally unified in its beingness. So much so that it's the only thing that science cannot begin to break down into smaller units. How so? Because light is energy itself. Because energy might not be a thing at all. And when energy flows purely, that is, without any control or means of direction, without distortion – it's appearance is Nothingness. However, nothingness has only ever been a word that describes an appearance, even if that description is the absence of an appearance. In truth, there is no Nothing, there is only you in your state of untapped potential. You are the current. You are that pure energy-flow. Because you Are. Perhaps it's not Nothingness that we've been talking about. Perhaps it's always just been, just is, Beingness amidst the confusion of many many (finite) loves. It's just light being distorted by love.

@Da77en any belief is just an temporary reflection such as life. İt is like living on Nothingness.

When all the the ego attachments (five aggregates) are deconstructed, what is left is not infinite and unconditional bliss and goodness but Nothing, no experience, oblivion. I challenge you to convice me that the God/Atman/Infinite love, etc as essence of reality makes any sense. This experience is also an ego attachment, still craving, and therefore can be deconsctructed too.

Why does practically no one care about the intersection between physics and spirituality? Leo, of course, has a very well prepared answer to this. The answer is that the modern scientific establishment, which is a giant mass of self validating authority, cannot move beyond its materialist paradigm and start to consider the importance of the observer as part of the physical systems they are studying. (Someone correct me if I didn't get this right). The trouble for me is that even given this explanation, there are no "wackos", no "fringe" or "pseudo" scientist, no internet conspiracy theorists, NO ONE who have both a deep understanding of spirituality and physics, and also have a humble respect for truth and epistemology. Of course, you have to exert zero effort to find someone who claims to be studying, or has found some theory of everything which ties together biology, consciousness, the standard model, GR, and God into one self consistent theory with a nice little bow on top. Whenever I find someone with this type of claim though, the theory will be either utter speculation (neither based on direct experience nor experimental observations), supper narrow in scope (for example, a mathematical framework to tie together QFT and GR), or a leap from some physical phenomenon to consciousness with absolutely no logic or critical thinking in between (for example, Roger Penrose positing that consciousness arises from quantum effects in the brain. Anyone who has perused spirituality deeply will know that this is definitely wrong, because consciousness does not arise from physical phenomena but instead is responsible for those phenomena. Penrose is about as academic establishment scientist as you can get though). So like, can we please find one person who for example: 1. Knows that they are god, and all of reality is part of their mind. In other words they have discovered absolute truth. 2. Understands the mathematics and logic behind physical theories like general relativity and quantum field theory. 3. Seeks to use their understanding of these two fields to build a cohesive model of the universe. Starting from the one absolute truth and from there deriving all the relative truths that we know and love today. I mean, this is definitely a big ask, but at the same time you would expect to see a couple people working on this. In reality though, there are NONE. I think someone might be able to to point out a couple contenders for people trying to work on this, such as Christopher Lanigan or maybe Joseph Campbell. But their theories are unsatisfactory to me. So I'm going to try to be as clear as possible as to what I'm looking for: I want an explanation of everything, nothing less. I want someone to be able to take the unopinionated ground truth of all of reality, which is nonduality, god, consciousness itself, or whatever you want to call it. I want the theory to start from 0. From nothing. From the point of total nothingness and ending in the exact nature of the reality which we see before our eyes today. A theory like this would be totally logical and be based on subjective experience of absolute truth at the most basic level. From this point, I want to be able to describe the nature of our conscious experience, and the objective reality which we seem to be experiencing living in. I want U(1)xSU(2)xSU(3) symmetry to be explained, and I want every physical phenomenon in the whole universe to be able to be explained. I don't really see anyone who has a really good understanding of the foundations of physics right now and at the same time has a really good understand of consciousness and absolute truth. Personally, I have what I would consider a surface level understanding of both of these things. I'm working on it myself, but I don't see anyone else who I would consider to be like me. I have spent some time at a Buddhist monastery so far, and I have bachelors in mathematics and physics, but I have waaay more work to do before I really even know the exact questions to ask. Anyway, all the theoretical physicists today are materialists and if they are talking about consciousness it's because they want to be trendy, but really they have no idea what they are talking about once they get away from physics. All mystics I know of who know about direct experience of absolute truth seem to not really care about physics, or have a very lazy understanding of it. So yeah this was just a rant let me know what you think.

I have noticed that bringing up the subject of reincarnation arouses almost as much excitement among forum members as endless solipsistic debates. In the case of reincarnation, however, one can sense a distinct resistance to even considering such a possibility among some participants. In conversations with Christian friends, it is similar. Very interesting and funny. Well, it is better to return to nothingness than to reincarnate into the experience of being a small, fat girl with Down syndrome, acne-prone skin and an unpleasant smell of sweat, isn't it? The subject of reincarnation can be an interesting instrument for measuring our current attachment to form, identification with it, and our openess to infinity of existence with its infinite ways of experiencing itself. It showes us where we really are on our journey.

I agree with you. However, ego/thought can be under control. That's what coming home is about. Yeap. But again, when you completely surrender to god/emptiness/nothingness, it is under control. Believe me.

I am also starting to love him, I came to know about him from this forum. But have to say it was clouded with leo's view, like I looked for every post in the forum about him and in one post he says there are better books than his(dispenza), so I thought this doctor maybe not that good. Then honestly speaking I was doubtful about healing, as leo's health conditions got worse and his high consciousness was not helping him, my thinking pattern was like, even the most awake man couldn't heal. There are certain karmas you have to go through. Right now am watching a lot of success stories from dispenza yt and its like making my mind open about healing. I am doing his BOTEC meditations and I hear him say about you are Love, field, merge into nothingness, be nothing etc make me think he had enlightenment experience and choosed healing path. Anyway what dizpenza is doing is remarkable work.

As for the so-called eternal consciousness, that experience is just the bodily sensations(sight, sound, smell, taste) coupled with a spiritually conditioned imagination. When that body dies, so will the concepts of so-called eternal consciousness held there. There is nothing eternal or permanent. No need to call nothingness eternal because it already never existed.....it's not eternal or temporary....it simply never was! ❤️

Thank you for taking the time to share some thoughts. This idea is still half baked so bare with me. They both exist to some extent. I believe the term "transcend and include" was popularized by Ken Wilber - a hugely influential writer in most english speaking spiritual contexts. Transcendence is exciting, mysterious, illuminating, confusing, and easy to spike emotions. It is often communicated as a panacea that you just quite haven't glimpsed yet. Just sit more, or go on more retreats, or buy my course. Memes spread faster and are stickier when it is presented in this framing. Thus it is common. This also means courses sell better in this framing and vulnerable people are easier to manipulate. Economic incentives perpetuate this framing as well. Moloch and marketing. Communicating to hurt souls that they must go through their own internal and external complexity (relationships, traumas, ambitions, sadness, anger, prides, joys, enlightenments) in a unique and personal way specific to them that no paint by numbers approach can facilitate doesn't sell and doesn't spread. This is however mostly true. Most of which enlightenment doesn't solve. After enlightenment the laundry or in our case the breaching of planetary boundaries, collapse of civilization, and destruction of all life on Earth. (I love you Leo no shade <3 just trying to make a point with a shared reference) Why has Leo reached "Alien conciousness" yet still talks down to his viewers and struggles to show even moderate levels of Love? Because in spite of his transcendence he has a lack of inclusion or integration. Why are we always talking about stages of development and (even though it is occasionally mentioned) never talk about what it means to include fundamental stages or what integration even looks like? Love, compassion, and depth are all ripened during inclusion and integration. These are the qualities that touch others hearts. Almost no one is moved to tears by your stories of how its all nothingness and god. They are moved by the way you listen when they need a shoulder. They are moved by an act of kindness when there is nothing to gain. These things are not cultivated in transcendence but rather inclusion (transcendence is necessary not trying to downplay its value) and yet are what a human life is about. When we strive for "higher" states of consciousness we forego reality. We want a delusion in our head, not the sacred reality that is our face. Who wants to cry for an hour about their childhood, or have depression or depersonalization for 2 years? No one, yet that is what life may call for us. This all can be part of a deepening process if integrated and included into our beings. If I bring Love to my darkest moments, then I can Love anything. Thank you for adding your perspective and sharing your time. <3 Spirituality is about reality and what is true. Transcendence and humanity are true at the same time. Relegating humanity to something lower or simply survival misses the point. Ultimately it is a dialectic to be resolved. God and humanity are one. God and survival are one. A human life although deeply moved by survival is so much richer than that. We are tasked with bringing as much of God into our human life as we can. Continually growing that capacity. It means how can we deepen our Love? How can we deepen our Wisdom? How can we deepen our compassion and understanding? How can we heal our trauma? How can we communicate more lovingly in an argument? How can we make sure our sister feels seen when she is sharing something vulnerable? Practical things that require so much inclusion and integration. Thank you for sharing! This is a point of view that I sympathize with because it makes so much sense to me. Unfortunately, I don't think it always lives up to its logic. We so often (not always) see those with seemingly enlightened states abuse their power, struggle to show compassion/Love, and be distant. You are right to point this out. It most certainly does not contradict and I apologize if I notioned in that direction. I believe they have some kind of dialectical relationship. If you have no new experiences, you have nothing to integrate. If you only have new experiences and no integration you are hollow/shallow. Integration/inclusion is so much deeper and richer than letting go of fear. But most people wouldn't know this since integration and inclusion never gets spoken about. Thank you for sharing this PurpleTree! This is certainly a trap in spirituality. To truly see reality you can't be looking elsewhere. But this is not what I am speaking of. Integration and inclusion is more than self help, self healing, or solving issues. It is about deepening your soul. If transcendence brings you up, integration grounds you. two sides of the same coin. Never heard of this! Sounds interesting! However, it does seem like another genuine but misguided reductionism of reality. to reduce spirituality to just trauma healing or to just vipassana or to just zazen is a similar reductionist mistake that scientists make when they reduce reality to just atoms. The human complex is so varied, personal, and mysterious. To grow takes everything. Preach my brother! Reality is everything in every direction. Just integrating/including the Love you shared in conversation with your mother is some of the most beautiful spiritual work you can do.

I don’t think there really is a nondual way of looking at these things. It’s basically to drop the self and others and then everything and all opinions mostly collapse into nothingness or unknowableness.

Do we go around chasing our arm, our eyes, the sun, night time, daytime, or anything that is already present. Anything that is inevitable or we know is there or sure is about to come, no. We're in a relaxed state about it. We don't think about our fingers unless it hurts; and we don't focus on whether or not daylight will show up in the morning, we go to sleep knowing the sun will rise whether it's a cloudy day or not. All these things have been neutralized within our awareness and have collapsed back into oneness. When nighttime appears within our awareness it's already perceived that daytime will follow. When daytime arises, nighttime collapses back from whence it came, back into nothingness. We don't ask where the hell did daytime go and go chasing for it, we are at peace knowing it will show up. That anxious feeling isn't arising. We're at peace with all those sorts of things. Knowing our arms are on our bodies, our eyes are there, the sky is there and that our hearts are beating. This is how things become one with the Universe. That trigger energy didn't disappear, it collapsed and blended in with the flow. So did the happy energy. We feel happiness for 5mins then the happiness blends itself and become one again. So does every emotion. They arise and subside within our awareness. They are still potentially there; but until there's focus and attention, they lie dormant. Happiness, joy, excitement etc, gives us such a dopamine hit that the mind doesn't want to let go of that feeling. We chase happiness because we're unsure. Unsure of it's existence. We need to see it to feel alive. Even sadness. We need these emotions to come out of their non-dual state for us to know we exist. If not, we'll feel dead inside. We will feel that nothingness. We don't want to feel like nothing; and because happiness is the feel good state, we chase it around like a cat chases a mouse. We need to feel alive. We also chase other emotions and feelings, but I'm concentrating on happiness here even though this goes for every emotion. Happiness has to collapse back into the flow of oneness because that's it's nature. It cannot be otherwise. We don't understand this, so we chase it down. It keeps coming back up, but not for long as it's a very short-lived sensation. Depression is happiness turned in unto itself. Picture an umbilical cord trapped and cannot free itself. Stopping happiness in it's tracks from birthing itself. These energies are free but the mind enslaves them. When the mind liberates itself and welcomes all these energies to flow and collapse as they are designed to do because of the Absolute nature of the Universal flow, then they're not trapped within the body. We chase after happiness because sadness is trapped within the body so is anxiety, confusion, anger, fear, jealousy, etc. All these emotions makes us feel contracted and constricted. So, we chase after what we believe will loosen them up, not realizing that they'll just surface again once the happy energy subsides. Ever notice happiness doesn't create a problem for us. It's because this energy is welcomed and shown love. We don't reject or hate it. It comes and goes more freely than the other ones we associate negativity with. Those one's get more attention and focus so awareness stays within this side of consciousness. They feel more intense. Anger feels more intense than happiness because of the attention we give it. We don't usually consciously chase anger because it doesn't feel good, but we are still chasing it in the silent pursuit for happiness. We will search out things and circumstances that makes us feel upset and bothered because that happiness dopamine hit wears off too quickly. Either way we're chasing emotions to make us feel something - something rather than nothing.

I think we can know nothingness through deep dreamless sleep. At the time we know nothing but when we wake up we can point to that and know that nothing was there… but then we have good and bad dreams which imo points to the light and the dark that’s born out of nothingness

The nothingness is nothing, is a way to talk , there is only you, the reality, what exist Nothingness is a realization that appears in meditation when the form dissapears, then the reality appears as absolute void, then you realize that even there is no form, always is you, the being, the absolute potential. That's existence.