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@RealTruth the point is that if you stop your mind long enough, you will see: I am absolutely nothing and this nothing is. it is wonderful. then your mind will work again and you will think: what was it saying out of nothing, why was it? what stupidity, nothing is nothing, it is also quite bad, the opposite of life. then you will stop your mind again, and you will see: the apparent reality is somehow a dream of nothingness, it is nothing. reality = nothing, an empty appearance in eternity. again the mind will return, and you will think: what was that about appearance? why? if everything is solid, it doesn't make any sense ... that's the game

I get what you're saying ❤ There is nothing there, it's complete nothingness. And words can't describe nothing. ❤

I read it, thanks. I do journal often, I work on things I like etc which tends to get my mind off of these neurotic thoughts. Positivity and better sleep certainly improve my mood and keep neuroses at bay. I don't feel good about this idea of a so called random meaningless impossible to understand suffering that can spawn out of the nothingness for no reason at anytime and that is without solution other than to bear it on the promise that it will be gone. I understand that bearing it gracefully is preferable to descending into madness, but still I am left wishing that there is a better possibility still. One may not have control over the outer reality but at least the body and the mind should be in peace and ready to work optimally. If I recall correctly these types of thoughts started a few years ago after a traumatic event in my life. Back then they were different types of thoughts and not so pervasive. For some reason my brain just started showing me what it considered the absolute worst case scenario it could imagine for any given situation. I might be making the next stuff up because it was a long time ago but I think in my neurosis I might have made a wish at that time to the universe to know what the worse is so that I can find peace in that it can't get any worse than that. So that I be prepared for the worst. And so soon after that I started having these thoughts where I would see the worst possible thing happening to me or to the people around me. For example I would talk to a friend and an image would pop in my mind about this friend getting hit by a car on the way home or I would see a random person walking on the street and I would get a thought how they step in a pot hole and break their leg. Just so we are clear these weren't wishes i had, just random visions. And so I became quite frustrated with them but usually I found ways to distract myself from them through work and tv shows etc. Now for whatever reason this particular thought of that kind seems to have stuck with me. It does go away when I work and focus on something else, but the moment I notice it's gone I immediately bring it back up. From a spiritual point of view I do feel like I might have made a pact with my subconscious to always show me visions of the worst so that I may be prepared. Like I installed some sort of program in there. However I don't need this anymore and I would like to uninstall it and let it dissolve. Believe it or not - if we set this particular neurosis aside - my current mental health is the best it's been since over 15 years ago. I am way more connected with my feelings, generally at peace and have a positive outlook at life. Self-hate is at an all time low. I am starting to love myself and to understand life more. Even my mom said I've changed a lot and that I used to be unbearable before but now I am great to be around. And the most important part I just feel better, genuinely. It's just this one thing that's bothering me and I do get a bit scared sometimes that it could get out of control as it does seem to gain momentum when I focus on it. It could be OCD yes. I might check with an OCD specialist on this.

It is not about your experience floating anywhere, only reason why you can't sense nothingness, creation when it happens is because it is so transparent that you can't even really see it before it manifests into something, it is just action before thinking of action, because it isn't thinking, but at the same time it is.

@Valwyndir Man it's crazy, I've experienced the exact same thing with some of my psychedelic experiences, and other times I was able to comfortably abide in this non-dual state where I can see that everything is mind, we are all the same being etc. without feeling like I'm going to disappear, I wonder why this is? Leo described the same experience in his "What is Reality" video like 20-30 minutes in when he talked about emergency sirens going off or something like that when you start going down that slippery slope and unravelling reality a little too much and shit gets a little too real. I was sober when I watched the video for the first time but as he start saying that stuff it started happening again and I had to pause it because it felt like if I didn't I would have dissolved myself out of existence lol. I guess it feels like this fear reaction is in a sense the "force" that keeps reality infinitely going? As you approach this non-existence (which by definition can't exist?) there comes a point where your survival instinct (which is really just the physical impossibility for nothing to exist) kicks in, and your fear of non-existence fuels you to stay alive by any means, and staying alive basically means not being still? Move your mind by thinking thoughts or move your body or make sounds, just do SOMETHING to keep existing. I guess as you look around you in life this is all you see. Motion/Vibration? Birds chirping, animals running around, humans going through their motions, etc. Nothing is truly still, except for the stillness/nothingness that forces everything else to stay in motion. It's interesting then how you can then flip things to see this fear of death as actually equivalent to the love/joy of existence depending on what perspective you look at it from. Are we running from death, or are we running towards life? I don't really know why I'm even writing this, I guess this is just journalling since apparently I'm writing to myself. Anyways, peace man have a good night.

I had one very radical oneness experience which I haven't been able to replicate or experience with any other psychedelic or technique. Not even DMT or 5-meo-dmt has given me it. It was a experience of absolute nothingness, but such nothingness so intense that I destroyed the belief in such a thing of a linear material reality. In other psychedelics, there is always still an "insight* or an "understanding* of the experience. But what made this one special is that the experience was so brutal that I couldn't have no words . Because it was the end of my life , reality, and everything. I couldn't say even I was God. It was just nothing. And it was so real. At the same time now I have a normal life in a city . There is so many people, cars, experiences. This material reality feels real as fuck . Maybe what I experienced was just hallucinations. I guess I'll never know

You are still floating in Nothingness right now. But, you can also have "blank" experiences of Nothing. It feels very similar to what you might imagine the universe was like before the Big Bang. Have you never died in your dreams and experienced just being a conscious void for a while? That is it.

I remember Leo once saying that "you" were basically the only thing that existed before the "big bang" or the illusion was created. What was then our conscious experience floating in nothingness. Nothing?

Self Love As it’s commonly used in contemporary times, Self Love is addressed as a positive thing. Maurice Nicoll like Gurdjieff, though, used the term self love as being synonymous with egotism. All of chapter 14 in Gems Of Wisdom is devoted to self love as it was used ordinarily back in the day,,, I really see no contradictions. These words are just being used with different usages. A different frame of reference perhaps between world of personality and world of essence or being.,,,,,maybe? Castenada’s use of the term self importance is very much in line with Gurdjieff’s and Nicoll’s use of self love. I get a kick out of reading Nicoll. He’s a real hoot sometimes. Like In this first paragraph. CHAPTER 14 SEEING SELF-LOVE AT WORK A DESCRIPTION “I well know as a medical psychologist the awkward point where I had to say to the patient: ‘Yes—I can see you have been badly treated, never appreciated, never properly understood. You have told me all that very clearly. But do you think that it is possible that you are not quite the ideal person that you seem to imagine yourself to be, and that there may be some quite serious faults in yourself?’ Now you can all imagine the haughty look, the frozen smile, the magnificent rising from the chair—and the slamming of the door—without, of course, the fee being paid. Yes—but what has happened. . . What has been touched? What would you call it? Whatever you call it, it is this factor that prevents self-change...If he sees for himself something of this factor in him, which is so formidable and the source of so much violence, then it is not aroused antagonistically. He sees himself: he begins to accept what he would never have accepted from another. It is in this way that the Work deals with this otherwise intractable fac- tor in Man.” V. 3, pp. 1165-1166 PRIDE AND VANITY “You must study Pride and Vanity in yourselves and all their different gradations. Do you know your own forms of Vanity and how much they occupy you? Do you know where your Pride lies? Where do you feel that you love yourself, that you admire yourself? Where do you most feel that you are utterly different from other people? Where are you most conceited? What do you boast about? What are you silent about? Vanity is frequently very talkative, whereas Pride is silent. Which is the deeper wound, wounded Vanity or wounded Pride? What is it you cannot forgive? You know that if you cannot forgive it is because of some form of self-love which, ideally speaking, has to be smashed out of you.” V. 1, p. 360 SELF-LOVE “One can feel very startled when one realizes that it is alwa this thing called oneself that is being comforted, exalted, tittilated, soothed, flat- 70 tered, satisfied, and that when it is not, it begins to whimper like a baby. And it is always this odd restless thing that is being offended, upset, negative, indignant, downcast. Cast down from what? From its centrepoint of self-love.” V. 2, p. 472 SELF-LOVE II “Ask yourself sometimes: ‘Why am I doing this?’ or ‘Why am I say- ing this?’ or ‘Why am I behaving in this way?’ or ‘Why am I writing this?’ Whatever imaginary robes of self-righteousness we clothe our- selves in, these questions tend to undress us again...When we have gone more deeply into self-observation and self-knowledge, we simply have to give up a lot of the manifestations of the self-love, disguised as something genuine.” V. 2, p. 476 SELF-LOVE III “No one can possibly act beyond some degree of ‘self-love’—that is, beyond self-interest, self-feeling, self-esteem, self-admiration, self-delight, self-praise, self-seeking, and so on...I t is difficult to catch even a glimpse of the forest of self-love and all its pseudo-creations. How- ever, if one does, it is a very startling experience. It is a real shock, like the realization of mechanicalness. It creates a sense of being under- mined, an empty feeling...When you feel you have been betrayed by a friend you feel undermined. But to feel you have been betrayed by yourself is worse.” V. 2, p. 471-2 SELF-LOVE IV “One can hate its falsities. But what do we find? We find it seems impossible to get rid of it. We seem fastened to it. We react to its influences continually. It has so many tricks, so many pretenses and deceptions, that we simply cannot deal with it. We are just too late. But new emotions can catch it in time. You remember that the speed of emotions is greater than that of thoughts. In short, we cannot deal with it without the help of something else. . . The object of all real esotericism is connect Man with the Will of God and to break him from his own self-will.” V. 2, pp. 472, 479 71 SELF-LOVE V “The life of self-love is death...The self-love always regards itself. It cannot look up...Self-love is not cognitive. It lays down no memory for ‘next time.’ It makes darkness, not light...You can cease to do this only by observing little by little, what you are really like.” V. 5, pp. 1638-9 SELF-LOVE VI “You cannot get to certain emotions that come from beyond the zone of self-love, if you take yourself as one... Something else in you, apart from the self-love, has to see the truth of such ideas. And if there were no emotions possible beyond those belonging to the self-love this would not be possible and so no development would be possible. It is upon the appearance of these other and new emotions and their gradual strengthening, that development depends, and this is when being changes.” V. 2, p. 474 LAUGHING AT ONESELF “Now one way to attack the self-love is through self-observation. . . . It is wonderful to catch a glimpse of your self-love and be able to laugh at it. One loses the former highly-explosive over-sensitive feeling of ‘I’ more and more. That means more balance. That means becoming softer.” V. 5, p. 1604 ENDURING DEVALUATION “It would be impossible to catch a glimpse of one’s level of Being unless one could endure it. Now the only way you can endure it is by having something else you can hold onto. If you have something else that you value and that you can hold on to and trust, you can then endure a certain amount of devaluation of yourself.” V. 2, p.509 ENDURING DEVALUATION II “When you begin to feel your own nothingness you begin to receive the help of the Work to replace that nothingness by something. So you have to go down a long way before you begin to go up.” V. 3, p. 878 72 A CHANGE OF STATE “You cannot change your inner state if you cling to what you are based on, just as you cannot leave your room if you persist in clinging to all the articles of furniture in it...The feeling of Real ‘I’ can only come to you when all such false ‘I’s are diminished in you. All of you may think that you never speak like that man (in the Gospels) who prayed: ‘Thank God I am not as other men,’ but have you actually observed how often you do enact this without actually saying it, how often you act from this basis?” V. 1, p. 344 TWO KINDS OF ‘SELF’ “We know that all these different divergent elements in us can be fused into a unity, which means that our present level of being in the total Scale of Being from a stone up to Divine Being is far lower than it was made to be; and this we need to feel at all times. Why? It helps us to undermine self-complacency, self-righteousness, and self-merit, self-applause, and all this tedious self stuff, except Self-Remembering. It is Self-Remembering. The Self you try to remember is above yourself. It is there: and you need always to feel so, for that lets in a certain influx of interior light, which self-emotions shut out.” V. 4, p. 1495

About that Ket trip. It was so powerful I didn't even see a reason in trying to make a trip report. I was not expecting such a powerful trip at all. It was in the 6-7g mushroom ballpark of intensity. But I resisted the breakthrough because I was just not repaired in the slightest. It was kind of nihilistic in a weird way, very nothingness-oriented since it is a dissociative after all, so one can expect that. I'm feeling a lucy trip coming up and I'll be more prepared for that one. I want to focus more on discovering my life purpose with that trip.

I am really interested in the direction that Sam Vaknin is going. He is saying that the cure to narcissism is "nothingness". I don't agree with many of his points but I think it's a good direction to lead the ever-growing narcissism community.

How can something be higher or lower? If all is awareness appearing as anything. Not two, not nothingness and an object called "infinite love". Love nothingness god emptiness fullness points to the same thing.

Infinite love is everything, including nothingness, God, consciousness, or any other name and concept. Infinite love is the deepest awakening because it is all there is. Saying that nothingness is the deepest awakening is the same as long as the nothingness you describe is absolute (meaning it is all there is). However infinite love is to a degree more accurate description than nothingness due to the selfness/relatedness that is infused with the word love.

There are moments of oneness with the Beloved, absolutely ecstasy and bliss. That is nothingness. And this nothingness loves you, responds to you, fulfills you utterly and yet there is nothing there. You flow out like a river without diminishing. Irina Tweedie (Sufi Master)

So here's Leo's explanation of how to do the technique: Quote Sit comfortably and quietly, still your mind, and become aware of direct experience. Locate a distant object in your visual field. Any object will do, like a tree, a car, a sofa, a lamp, a book. Now, take your index finger and try to draw an imaginary line from that object to "you". Draw this line using your finger, but go very slowly. Move backward from the object to "you". Pay extra-careful attention to exactly when and where your finger reaches "you". Notice that it never actually reaches "you", because there's no you there! The line always terminates at nothingness. Become deeply conscious of this until your identity as a self starts to break down. If you think the finger reaches you at the skin threshold, look more closely. In your direct experience do you actually perceive skin between the object and "you"? Be very careful here. There is no skin between object and eyeball. For that matter, there is no eyeball My question So, I take my finger from the object to what exactly? Like I tried actually touching my eyeball, is that right? Then I just poked the skin around my eye, like on my nose and cheek. Is this right? Where exactly on my face or body am I supposed to be bringing my finger back to "me"?

"ABC" keeps saying that infinite love is the deepest awakening, yet various "XYZs" say that it is very deep but not the deepest. That the ultimate deepest is simply nothingness and love is its first manifestation. Be aware that a mind can become stuck in formless or stuck in form. A mind of H20 can become formless gas and flow like water and become solid ice form. The 'stickiness' here is the idea of "deepest" - which is a relative construct. It's super easy for the mind to get stuck into a solid ice form within relative constructs. Then, it will start comparing various ice sculptures and get confused by which is the true ice sculpture. The sticking point is not the ice sculptures. The sticking point is the inability to melt the ice sculptures and return to fluid water. An ice sculpture of a dragon and an ice sculpture of a pineapple are both true to their form - and both can be melted to water. We can create the below ice sculpture: "ultimate deepest is simply nothingness and love is its first manifestation." That is a beautiful sculpture that is true to it's form. We could explore this sculpture for a lifetime and barely scratch the surface of it. We could add thousands of details to the sculpture. We can also melt this sculpture to fluid water or formless gas. For example, we could say that Nothing = Everything = Love. The truth of this formless gas does not negate the truth of the sculptured ice form. As well, we can be like water and flow with different forms of beingness. Above, we created conceptual forms. We can also create other forms, such as emotions (not the concepts of emotions - the actuality of it). And with each of those, we can create an ice sculpture - such as an ice sculpture of emotional love. Yet this will be maddening to a mind that wants to walk across the lake to reach a destination. Here, the mind craves solid ice as grounding to walk upon. It will become confused and frustrated as the ice transforms to water, gas and back to ice.

Nothingness is love you goobers. Contemplate what love really is and you'll eventually see that it is the collapse of ego or sense of separation.

As others have said, you can only answer this question by doing the work of self-inquiry. I can tell you that realizing nothingness is an important milestone along the path of spiritual discovery, because it dissolves the illusion of the self. If "you" continue traveling that path, you will eventually awaken spiritually to the God that you are, which is unconditional Love. But those are only words. They mean nothing to the conceptual mind, and can only be directly realized.

Since you have no direct experience of death, to be consistent with your epistemological position, you have to realize death does not exist... Any thoughts about the fear of death, like all thoughts, appear out of nothingness/emptiness, they are not yours, recognize them as such... and fear falls away having no substance.

@Kalki Avatar God is Nothing. But, The deepest awakening is infnite Love. Waking up to nothing isn't the deepest. You know, How are you gonna know anything is true? Is Leo right the love is the deepest? How would you know? Are other people right that nothingness is the deepest? How would you know? Do you even know the difference between nothingness or infinite love? What is God's absolute perspective on itself? Its is really nothing? surely the fundamental building blocks are nothingness. But, It's LOVE. ahhaha find out for yourself.

Help get this right. Leo keeps saying that infinite love is the deepest awakening, yet I have talked to various realized beings saying that it is very deep but not the deepest. That the ultimate deepest is simply nothingness and love is its first manifestation. Does leo keep saying it is the deepest just because it has been his deepest experience or what?

I'm scared shitless of death.... .. Even tho.. after doing insane amounts of contemplation.. I found that death is not even a fact lol(yeah whatever) I really couldn't find a single evidence that death is real .. But that's more on the back burner there is this ultimate fear. The kicker is of course.. You have not the first clue what's going to happen after death.. The body seems to die. What goes on after that?.?? Nobody knows. Sweet... And life is short you know.. 10, 20, 30, 40, 50, 60, years max and ba bye. How to overcome fear of death? Let me say given that.. Death itself is unknown (or known, I don't even know lol)(this is a consequence of Leo's mantra "death is imaginary" .. And what's afterwards is unknown (if lay aside religious stories and philosophical speculation). Hands down.. Reincarnation.. Nothingness.. Heaven and hell realms etc are nothing but beautiful beliefs.

Focus seems to be a very important part of spiritual practices. "Focus on the breath. Focus on bodily sensations. Focus on your third eye. Focus on nothingness. Focus on impermanence. Focus on your fleeting thoughts. Focus on energy/prana running up the spine." The list continues, and thus I think it's important to really define: what is focus? I recently had a shrooms trip where I experienced pure insanity. In the sense that I could not focus on anything because nothing was staying still. Everything was morphing from my visuals and sounds - to my thoughts- to my body -to my sense of self and even my breath. The one thing I thought I would always have. And it wasn't necessarily gone but the power of all the ever changing stimuli i was experiencing left me without a ground, without an identity, and without the strength to focus on just one thing for even a full second. And i was fucking scared out of my mind. This lasted about an hour and a half until I started to chant a mantra aloud - "just breathe and breathe and breathe, all you can do is breathe" I chanted this for a long time (abt 30 mins) and it brought me back to center. And I finally was able to just stay with that motion and leave everything else behind. All of this really got me thinking what is focus really? How do I cultivate this? Is it a muscle? Is it innate? Because technically we are always focusing on something, maybe it's not what we want it to be on or one-pointed necessarily, but focus still remains right? Or is it ultimately completely unimportant and a distraction to even try to focus? I would love to hear any and all thoughts. Please share your understanding of what focus is below.

I was just listening to Terence McKenna — I’ve been on a bit of a jag of his stuff — and I came across a section where he was talking about the Big Bang, he said something like this... The ultimate singularity is the Big Bang, which physicists believe was responsible for the birth of the universe. We are asked by science to believe that the entire universe sprang from nothingness, at a single point and for no discernible reason. This notion is the limit case for credulity. In other words, if you can believe this, you can believe anything. He had a fair point, I think. The whole notion of a Big Bang seems rather far-fetched, almost as far fetched as the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

Because there is still a subtle form of ego. Ego goes extremely deep. As long as you are physically alive there will be some ego. So yeah, utlimate heaven is only possible with mahasamadhi. But it gets already very heaven-like before that! Given that your awakening is balanced. I conceptualize the facets of awakening into these two categories: - Category A: no self Nothingness Imagination life is a dream ... - Category B: God Love Consciousness Infinity Bliss Peace ... If you have too much awakenings into category A without balancing it with category B you likely get depressed. But if you have a balanced awakening, a full complete awakenig, then that's no issue (once integrated).