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@Leo GuraYou've really thrown yourself into the lion's den haven't you? Everyone says that nonduality and truth can't be described using language and are just pointers blah, blah, blah but until you understand that deeply people get the wrong idea. You're a polarizing, provocative as fuck teacher because your pointers are like knives to the heart. Efficient and effective, but... ouch. Yet your videos are super long and in depth. Well, God works in mysterious ways.

@Firebirdz From a nondual perspective, the question doesn’t make sense since the question assumes duality (separate things such as a person, product, a sale, money etc). Yet nonduality vs. duality is also a duality that dissolves. It is like asking: “If that is ONE carton, how can it include a dozen eggs?”.

Ultimately, form is formless and formless is form. Ime, direct experience is key. It’s not something that I could figure out mentally. I was shown the deconstruction of all distinctions to Nothing and the re-construction of distinctions to Everything. You mentioned that you can’t use psychedelics and meditation isn’t deep enough. That is a limiting belief. These realizations can and have been revealed in people without psychedelics. Yet for many people, psychedelics will allow space for revelations. Ime, psychedelics revealed many facets of nonduality - many of which were whacky and destabilizing and I went through developmental stages that seemed to fluctuate between sane and insane. I had about 50 trips before clear revelations of null void and absolute infinity manifested. I didn’t trip a few times and realize the breadth and depth of this clearly. It was a long process. Without psychedelics, the clearest revelations came in a sensory deprivation tank (90 min.). Things kept dissolving until the only thing present was my heartbeat and “I” went to a place before “I” was born. It was sorta like consciousness was back in the womb. Everything after birth dissolved. There was no “me” because that “me” was created after I was born. There was no images or thoughts. No things like houses, horses, coffee, language, womb, fetus, birth, brain, people, no whatever. Everything that appeared after birth was dissolved and was absent in this mystical space of consciousness. An immense amount was deconstructed (all things constructed after birth). Pretty much all things we perceive as form dissolved. It was deeply profound, yet not quite the null void because there was a type of ineffable essence/presence One of the most important things I learned is that it’s not mental. Language, images, symbols and mentality all get deconstructed away and dissolve as the null void is approached. Another key for me was a genuine desire to explore this and a willingness to try new things and let go of whatever needed to be let go of.

@Joker_Theory Nonduality means not two. If there is a difference between a formless state and the formed state you currently perceive, that it is a duality. As well, nonduality vs duality is a duality that dissolves. Look around you and see that formless Nothing is formed Everything. "Form does not differ from Emptiness And Emptiness does not differ from Form. Form is Emptiness and Emptiness is Form." -- Heart Sutra

Spiritual techniques basically aim at exhausting/killing the ego one way or another (including depriving ego from material attainments). Once it is exhausted, you will say fuck everything and then you will start the liberation process. Some egos are more persistent than others. I'm just giving you the answer straight away, there's no point in doing any spiritual work, there's nothing for the ego to find. Some will get it (surrender), and some will not (will keep struggling). Why don't you let the OP decide what they find useful? Don't put your words (theorem to win a nonduality debate) into my mouth, I just asked the OP some questions, it is a civil discussion between people. I didn't push my beliefs onto anyone, and I didn't disrespect anyone or use any offensive language, I don't know what you're complaining about. It's just a civil discussion and I am allowed to ask questions/offer perspectives.

What I said was a practical pointer. But it might have not resonated with you because you already assume that it's not a pointer but just a "nonduality theorem like osho drunk on cheap local vodka". Someone might find it helpful and make use of it, probably with a different attitude.

Once you really have it, you dont have to talk or argue about it. I thought it was a thread regarding practical pointers and understanding of self inquiry. It is crucial to understand this distinction intellectually and then repeatedly having the first hand taste of being. NOT a thread about who can spew more nonduality theorems like osho drunk on cheap local vodka ?

Yes all of them is being and no separation between being and knowing. But like i said, there is a qualitative difference between having an actual insight into being vs merely saying everything is being as a theorem to win a nonduality debate. For example like a dream you see at night. Is the building you see in the dream your mind? Yes. Is the tiger chasing you in the dream your mind? Yes! Everything is a product and of the substance of your own mind/being. But usually, does everything 'feel' like a projection of your mind? No, it feels everybit outside and objectively real just like the waking world. So there is a qualitative difference between actually waking up to that truth and becoming lucid in that dream vs pulling up your pants and running as fast as you can to save yo ass from the dream tiger ?

Ver nice! Thank you for creating and sharing this for us ? I love explanations of awakening and nonduality in the context of the stories we create and tell.

@DrewNows Of course, but I still don't understand why you think she must change her mind. And I don't understand at all what you're trying to say with the quote and the phrase right above it. I wouldn't say separation is what creates suffering. The word 'separation' has a lot of hidden metaphysics, it doesn't mean believing that God is a separate entity per se. Everything is not what it seems. Many people who yap about nonduality all the time are still living a dualistic life, and so they suffer tremendously due to inner conflict. On the contrary, some people believe in God as a higher supreme being and they surrender their ego/will/desires to It. Therefore, they don't experience any conflict or suffering. So, unless someone clearly shows suffering in a clear way, I think I shouldn't try to convince them of solutions (that they don't even believe they need).

@Blake One of the reasons to aim to experience non-duality is to realize the absolute truth which has value in itself. This is an experience that is not permanent and people come back to their normal ego mind. Then they can reevaluate all their own dualities and make themself a more wholesome person in doing so. The problem arises when we aim for permanent nondual experience of the world. This is the problem of seeking enlightenment. We experience a nondual state of being that we classify as better than our normal dual experience. We create a separation between dual and nondual and since nonduality contains all of duality within itself it creates a conflict in our mind that it unresolvable in nature. If you are not fine with dualities you are creating a duality. I think enlightened beings are completely fine with duality because they can clearly see it is part of nonduality. But how they transcend to this kind of consciousness I have no idea.

I’ve got a friend who says she’s always been oriented backwards from most people. She was always oriented toward perceiving nondually and had to put effort in learning duality. Stuff like creating a character within a timeline and relating to people and things with a clear sense of separation. She’s noticed many people these days struggling to understand and experience nonduality (and even take drugs to do so). This seems odd to her since for her nonduality is more natural and she has to work toward duality. Just being in her presence elevates my resonance by about 20 ug of lsd. It may seem like a spiritual gift, yet it’s also seemed to cause a lot of practical difficulties in her life.

By surrender I mean that you relax into the fear. You love it. And what is love but absolute acceptance of what is. Only then can you overcome it. All the stuff on your plate is really just a distraction from nonduality and enlightenment work, even if you may not see it that way now. It's a life you've but up from your survival programming and fear of death. But it could be that it isn't the right time to begin the journey. If you ever reach the end, it will be the end of your life as you know it. So you have to be ok with that. Or maybe your not and so you'll remain in the dark.

Now we're talking! How else is nonduality going to resonate with materilists?

If I commit suicide, will anyone else suffer? I would like a clear answer on this, especially from @Leo Gura if possible. The way I see it just now, this life is pretty much fucked and I just want to be done with it. The shit I have learned about nonduality has utterly destroyed me and on top of that I have to keep going back and forward to a job within a meaningless existence. The darkness and emptiness is utterly vast and unrelenting. If what Leo says about reality is true, in theory I could kill myself and nobody else would suffer as I deamt them all up anyway. If this is true, then I think it is the best course of action. Maybe I will come back into another life and never hear of this stuff again. If others will suffer as a result, I will keep myself going as long as I can for their sake.

I don't think you are quite understanding me. In fact I am pointing to oneness too. The perceived separation of the earthworm and other or the perceived separation of ego when it claims "I am God" is the very trap the phrase is pointing out. That's what I mean when I say God is more than the earthworm. To not exclude, to not create separation between say the earthworm and the dirt. Of course nonduality includes separation but one step at a time. The phrase was not addressing this aspect. Other parts do.

I understand where your coming from. But I have to tell you that your overthinking it. All these spiritual teachings, from Leo to Eckhart Tolle to Osho to Buddha are all just POINTERS! Everything Leo is talking about can only be understood by direct consciousness of it. Your saying everything is meaningless but that is a meaning itself. You are saying there’s nobody to receive your gifts, which is another idea your creating about nonduality, and it’s just that—an idea. You say there is infinite torture, but what about the infinite positive experiences? You need experience to really understand what is being said here. Without the direct consciousness, you don’t have anything. When you experience it, you realize everything that these people are saying is just a map, just an idea, and not true. It can be useful to keep you motivated to go deeper, and entertaining, but it shouldn’t be taken seriously. Nonduality can be very beautiful! My experiences of enlightenment really took away my nihilism I got from these teachings and took away the negative ideas I had about enlightenment. You realize that it’s all good, and that all your ideas about enlightenment from the theory you read is bs. Go and find meaning in your life. It sounds like you need it. Right now there is negative meanings, but you need to go and do things that you find meaningful in a positive way. Find you top values and do those things. Do things you find passion in. Maybe read “mans search for meaning” by Victor E Frankl. Too also keep it real with you, if you did kill yourself, you will absolutely ruin the life’s of some of the people around you. I know if I did, my parents life would be ruined beyond repair. People that lose their kids aren’t ever the same it seems like. Your life can be beautiful my man. I know right now feels so hard, but if you push on through you can create something great with your life. I’ve gone from a miserable life to a much better life, and it was hard. But it was absolutely worth it. You will be so thankful down the road that you stuck it out and made your life good! This life can be amazing. If I did it you can too. You have so much power within yourself. I know that you can do it, no doubt about it. I’d also say for now to avoid Leo’s teachings on nonduality. It’s just not practical and it’s causing you lots of pain it seems like. To be honest, at this point it’s just mental masterbation for me, you, and most of his audience. Fuck the theory, just meditate and do self inquiry. Get real experiences. Also psychedelics are a great and life changing option. But make sure there is no predisposed mental illness like bipolar in your family and really do research on them before you take them. Start with small doses And work your way up. And have a trip sitter you really trust in a good set and setting. Psychedelics are no joke and can really fuck people up so be responsible. But they can be absolutely beautiful and life changing. If you want a teaching maybe do something like “The Power of Now” by Eckhart Tolle. Maybe do some more basic personal development and self help. Go out and do pick up, work on your subconscious mind, or work on your self esteem. Also I would say go get some help. I think talking things out with a therapist could do you good. It really sounds like you need professional help. It’s nothing to be ashamed of. It’s brave to be vulnerable and seek help. And go find a different job. I know how it feels to have an ass job. Shit sucks the life out of you. And last but not least, go out and live life! Go catch a concert! Go hang out with some friends! Date around! Do positive things. Go towards positive things. Think yourself towards posititivity. Go do a hobby or some passion! Go set up a hammock in the forest! Go exercise. Go explore your country. Love life and live life! There’s so much you can do. So many diverse activities to enjoy and explore. It’s all good my man. I promise you that you can change everything and make this life a piece of art.

So we have to de-constract the duality of spirituality and ego, to Spirituality (with capital S. I adding now a new one to Leo's duality videos) which incorporates, alternately, the ego too!:) Its 'just' a new nonduality insight, but for me its a Hugh one. I glad we talked.

@Shaun As you know, the whole world is your love. Everyone is the recipient of your love. You are Love and bliss itself (nonduality).

You're clearly misunderstanding the teaching of nonduality. You're confusing "meaninglessness" (which is neutral) with depression (which is negative). I suggest you seek professional and qualified help. Nowadays, there are great mood stabilizing medication. You do not have to suffer. If you choose to not do that, I'd say you should at least focus on basic self-development (such as visualization, affirmations, and goals). If you keep reading and watching advanced content, you'll misunderstand it and you'll dive deeper into darker and darker moods.

Sorry this is off topic from the thread but @mandyjw I clicked on the link to your channel for no reason and saw your vid titled Nonduality, Humpty Dumpty...”. I had the same ‘insight’ about the rhyme during my contemplation of sameness and difference, a couple weeks ago. I’ve never heard anyone else make the nonduality connection and thought it was quite funny. From my contemplation journal: 2/7/19 “Ha! incredible. It’s [Humpty Dumpty] damn near a 4 line creation myth hahah. Wikipedia says it’s a riddle - think I just solved it :)))” After that I listened to the rhyme on Spotify and heard a second verse with lyrics which were new to me and which add some further symbolic significance: “Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall, he wasn’t pushed and he wasn’t bumped, Humpty Dumpty bungee jumped.” It means God willed it! It was a choice - he didn’t slip unintentionally, he jumped. And he’s safe, he knew it was safe, he had the bungee cord tied to him all along, though it won’t feel like that while he’s falling I also associated this with the fall of Adam.

Leo chooses to speak about nonduality in a very dualistic way sometimes. It's kind of brilliant when you realize that nonduality includes duality itself, and often what blocks us from realizing it is our belief that the nonduality side is the only true side and that nonduality can only be taught in a certain way.

@oldman Overall you're doing fine. This can be quite typical. It just sounds like the ego isn't fully ready to surrender yet. Fairly normal. Remember, the ego is wrapped up with the body. It's a tangled mess. If the ego is not ready to surrender then anxiety and heart rate will increase as it tries to fight off the ego-death. My first few trips I had a lot of fear and basically even a panic attack. But after many trips and ego deaths there is almost no fear now when tripping and heart rate hardly changes. It has become a smooth transition from duality & ego into nonduality & no ego. I don't have that, but seems reasonable that that could happen. Your body probably has lots of emotional baggage stored in it from over the decades. It's good to let loose and shake/act that baggage out on psychedelics. That's a big part of the healing work. Sometimes the body has a lot of pent up energy which it wants to release or act out. Don't hold it back. Act it out without harming yourself or another. It should because all fear is illusory in the end. Your probably underestimate how much practice is required. So keep practicing. I'd recommend trying some other psychedelics like mushrooms or LSD. They can help you to deal with various baggage which will then make you pure enough for 5-MeO-DMT. You cannot go into full God-consciousness without being sufficiently pure and free of psychological baggage. A breakthrough can release a lot of pent up energy. The body can shake, move, vibrate, etc. Rather than going straight for a breakthrough I'd spend more time exploring the psychedelic space on mushrooms and LSD. Get comfortable in the psychedelic space. Have some pleasant trips. Contemplate consciousness. Move around and stuff. Then try to go for a 5-MeO breakthrough. I think you might be trying to go too quickly to the end. There is a lot to be gained from psychedelics even without a breakthrough. Trust that the breakthrough will come when you're ready for it. Dosage is not the most important thing, your level of purity and intent and tripping experience is more important. Basically, your first 10-20 trips are just like kindergarten. The key to success with psychedelics is patience and consistency. With practice the results will snowball into something amazing.

Christianity = believing what other people tell you. Nonduality = Find out for yourself through direct experience.

2 levels I can think of to answer this question, but it depends what are you really asking for. To know reality, or to know practically. The know reality- taking pictures of you, god, everything, there is no camera, a camera is just a distinction your mind creates. The camera, what it's taking pictures of, it's all the same thing, consciousness. There's no really point asking that question if that's the answer you're looking for, in my opinion, because you assume that there's a "camera", you assume there's something distinct from it which the camera takes pictures of, your whole phrasing of the question is dual. you can't answer dual questions with non-dual answers, because they have hidden assumptions. Practical- If you want to know what the camera is taking pictures of "practically", "scientifically", in a way in which corresponds to the level of consciousness you're asking that question from, in other words, that there exists a "camera" and an outside world with it, the answer is light. A source of light like the sun or a lamp emits light, which hits things around you. When the light hits things it gets scattered from that thing into the camera sensor. The light interacts with the sensors, and with a bunch of technology it gets represented in pixels on a screen or on a piece of paper. Now, what light is, is a whole different question. Ultimately you can't answer that question dually, because the answer to "what is stuff" can't come from science, but it comes from nonduality and experiences and wisdom of nonduality. The current theories that try to explain what light is, tell us it's photons. A photon is an elementary particle, meaning there's nothing more basic than it. There are currently around 17 elementary particles according to the Standard Model. So it's not really an explanation, but science just kinda says "It exists, and we don't really know what it is". A way which explains light in a more "explanatory" way and not just says "it exists" is a little old one, but I think it's fun, so- Light is electromagnetic waves. Electromagnetic waves are waves of a magnetic field and an electric field. An intuitive way to describe what an electric field is, is "a force that a charged particle can exert on another charged particle". So if I have a charged particle, it "does" an electric field all the way to infinity, and if i put another charged particle somewhere, that field will push or pull that particle. A magnetic field is the same but more complicated. So basically saying, light is a wave of "potential force" on particles, lol. So we have light, which travels in space for example, and it passes through a charged particle. That charged particle will experience force. That's what light is, pure force You see, there's a bunch of "mental maps" you could make to answer your question, and none of them is the true one. The only truth is the one you can experience and which you can't think about