something_else

The issue with evo psych is that it’s largely all speculation. There is often no way to actually confirm the root of a behaviour is evolution, not social or cultural. It ends up being a lot of valid sounding stories that cannot be proven or disproven.

It’s definitely a form of non-monogamy, and arguably polyamory by the strict definition. But it runs pretty strongly against the ethos of most poly communities, which tends to emphasise autonomy and rejecting possessive or unequal relationship rules. If you’re saying you’re allowed multiple partners but every woman must be exclusive to you, you’re consciously baking a very asymmetric power structure into the relationship. That’s why “harem-building” is generally viewed extremely negatively in poly communities, even if you can technically fit it under the broad definition of polyamory.

Again, what you’re trying to create isn’t really polyamory, It’s a harem. So the studies on polyamory don’t really transfer to that.

This doesn’t have to happen. When I was in peak man hoe phase I had this to a degree, but as I grew I started to regain that kind of nice guy empathy towards women. It was far more genuine, because it wasn’t coming from a place of needing female attention. I genuinely just started to really love the company of women, sex or no sex. That indifference towards sex + empathy towards women is both very mentally healthy, and counter-intuitively quite attractive as well.

Oh I agree with that, if you wanted to try this out without kids being involved then go for it. But interesting lifestyles aren’t always great for raising kids. Stability is more important. I think you could make an argument for it being quite unethical from that POV. Out of curiosity, what is it that drives you so much towards this harem setup?

In this case there are lots of problems. Each new person increases the number of interpersonal relationships exponentially. With you, 4 women, each with 1 kid, that’s 72 interpersonal relationships in play. And conflict multiplies much faster than the extra support you get. Chances are at least one woman will want to leave at some point. Custody will be a bitch. Splitting assets will be a bitch. If you replace her that’s 3 other women who also have to be comfortable with the new woman being around their kids. There will be some kind of hierarchy that forms, and jealousy is very likely. You are the bottleneck in attention for every single one of these mothers and kids, so your time will be spread incredibly thin. If the women aren’t allowed to see other men, they’re sacrificing a lot for a small share of male attention, which will eventually breed resentment. Especially if they’re low down the pecking order. You then have the social stigma, which you may be fine with but you have no guarantee for your kids or the women. They may be fine with it at the start, but things change. Financially, if you come on hard times the whole thing collapses. This is not a cheap lifestyle, even with multiple incomes. Enough space and privacy for this many people is a serious concern. Sexual health / STI management is a serious concern, balance of probability is one of the women, or you, cheat at some point. Then everybody gets an STI. So you need regular testing. Maternal favouritism is another serious concern. Each mother will obviously favour her own kid, which will likely cause issues. Who can discipline whose kids? Like, this sounds like my idea of a nightmare. Good luck managing this and a full time job. All that just so you can have group sex on the regular, which will also lose its appeal over time as it becomes less special. I mean I wish you good luck, but you’ve really got your work cut out for you 😛 this would be my idea of a nightmare

I think that’s quite an idealised view of how that would work, the reality would not be so idyllic

When I’m single I am the player 😛 I’ve spent a lot of time in clubs, yea people cheat, but it’s not like the moment a girl enters a club or a bar she forgets she has a boyfriend, especially if it’s serious and going well. Also, a lot of late teen / early twenties people in clubs have someone they’d call a boyfriend or girlfriend but it’s really more like a situationship. Calling that cheating is a stretch. I’m generally pretty secure. I don’t see a point in worrying about my girlfriend cheating unless I actually saw evidence that it was happening. I certainly wouldn’t worry about Owen of all people lmao. You revere pickup people way too much. Most girls would find Owen mildly entertaining but not particularly attractive.

I don’t doubt it happens, but to assume that all women are just mindless creatures with no morality who will cheat whenever they get an opportunity is not a fair characterisation. Some girls may do this, that doesn’t mean your girlfriend will do this.

I think you’re projecting your experience as a guy into women. Most guys go out with the primary goal of getting laid, so you assume women are the same. Many women enjoy going out just to dance and have a few drinks with friends, not specifically to get laid. Although many do go out for that as well of course.

If you genuinely want to be in a mixed gender polycule of some kind I think it can work with the right people, usually people with low competitiveness and jealousy. I think open relationships can also work with the right couple and clear boundaries. But there’s an inherent problem where the more people you add to a romantic relationship the more chaotic and dramatic it gets. It can be fun, but I don’t know if it’s very sustainable in the long run. You also have guys who want to be polyamorous largely so they can build a harem. People in the poly community actively warn each other about this type of guy because they aren’t really in it for the right reasons. It’s all about ego and status, it doesn’t match the core values of the poly community.

Exactly this. I think taking on pickup as a paradigm/identity is the problem, even if parts of it are useful. By all means push yourself to talk to lots of women, but do it under the framework of improving social skills or pushing your boundaries instead of ‘pickup’. As I said, that’s not to say there aren’t parts of the pickup framework that are useful on this journey, but the identity with the framework itself is the problem. It comes with so much baggage. The men I’ve met who got laid the most would not describe themselves as PUAs. in fact they’d likely think that’s quite cringy. They’re just very sociable guys. They don’t think in terms of “approaches” or “sets” or “frame”. They think in terms of meeting new people, having fun, being playful, and confident. You can argue it’s just a difference of language, and to a degree it is, but that’s a bigger deal than it seems. Once you start using the lingo you start building an identity around it, and that’s where you lose authenticity which hamstrings you in the long run. In general, identifying too much with any particular framework can become problem. The goal should be to build your own identity by taking bits and pieces from different frameworks without wholeheartedly adopting one as your entire personality.

If the girl was a forest ranger, I’d sure as shit be asking her what to do. In fact, funnily enough I have almost been in that situation. There was no bear right in our face, but we thought we could hear one nearby and she knew exactly what to do. She did not lose respect for me because I let her lead, if anything she gained respect because I didn’t “try to be the man” and deal with it when she was clearly the expert. She had experienced men doing that a lot in the past and it annoyed her. Point being these blanket rules are kind of silly. I agree you should not be a pushover, but don’t be obsessed with the idea of leading all of the time. As everybody is saying, if you’re truly secure it shouldn’t hurt your ego to not be the one in control sometimes.

I have a bad habit of doing this, and you’re completely right. It’s not productive

Bingo