Leo, how much do looks influence a man's attractiveness

[Jehovah increases]

 Owen Cook founded pick-up? What do think Mr Ed Naaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy. 

 Owen's content it turns out it's because he has this thing where he starts interactions with girls in clubs by whipping out his man boob in their face which causes ideally causes them to laugh uncontrollably. This guy is a couch and people follow him Is this a joke 

[Leo Gura]

@Jehovah increases Don't overlook the value Owen offers. It's too easy to be cynical. You can learn a lot from Owen if you really want to grow.

Edited March 16 by Leo Gura

[Jehovah increases]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Jehovah increases Don't overlook the value Owen offers. It's too easy to be cynical. You can learn a lot from Owen if you really want to grow.

I am sure he is quite the crackerjack at what he does.

[Optimized Life]

@Leo GuraThis will be some of my last questions on this forum and leo/forum if you don't want to answer me that's fine however i think my questions will help clear up confusions for the other members so if you do do it for the other members if you want 

I don't doubt that looks mater, but I think a lot of us guys on here including myself are a bit coonfused at leos apparently sudden change of attiude after SOO many years, after 10+ years of doing pickup?, and after producing a whole series based off years of experience characterized by a core tennet of looks being secondary to game and confidence, personality? And now after all this time you randomly change your mind? I just don't understand why only now you produce this answer? 

And a theme you presented from the short/royal family wing example was that : Boldness/decisiveness and big bools outweighs looks and all else (minus celebrities) - so do you now just think that looks alone overpowers extreme boldness like your short asain wing had? 

* to add context, all this confusion im presenting is in regards to hot / 7+ girls, of course most guys can get laid with any girl if they try enough, this discussion is purely regards to how much game vs looks matter in regards to attracting 6.5-7+ girls and not just any girls

Examples hinting of the apparent contradictions paraphrased from a fragmented amalgation of his qoutes in my memory : 

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Looks matter to some extent, but not nearly as much as you think they do ...

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I guarantee you your sense of humour will get you laid 10 - 100 X more then any muscles you ever build 

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"You could be white + tall + mustache + handsome + wealthy, but your in a certain mood, context ect... 
But then the short asain guy comes along but he's funny ... she's able to sleep with & date him from that. 

Quote

she barely cares about your dick 

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He was short, and he got laid waay more than me (tbh short chads can exist i guess)

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at the 5,000 - 10,000 approach mark ... the pay off will be HUGE (Will it still be huge for average/ugly guys though?)

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Giris - like ALL types of guys ... nerdy guys, skinny guys, bodybuilder guys, just trust that whatever type of guy you are, girls out there will be into your type  - So have you changed your opinion to a more blackpilled view that girls are simply biologically programmed to be attracted to the  same thing - tall handsome symmetrical and masculine, and that is it? Because that's quite different to the "girls like all types of guys sentiment".

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If you're doing this correctly - 1/3 girls should hate you, 1/3 neutral/ 1/3 will love you (So 1/3 of the hot girls Owen approaches love him and find him their type, and same with any guy?? ... I find this type statement is very motivating and positive and many of us wish this to be true but it doesn't seem to hold up to your current attitude so I don't understand what is true or not? Why are "Looks so important" and it's such an uphill battle for Owen (who isn't even ugly genetics imo just average) when I thought that 1/3 of the girls would naturally be into him?? 

So this may sound autistic but I ithink many of us would prefer if you could precisely as possible distinguish to what extent you think looks matter relative to everything else in a numerical scale, and give your opinion on what a guys limits are based on his looks ... for example, does it only matter if you're ugly? or does not being a chad matter a lot too? if you're a 6/10 can you achieve what a chad achieves with enough game? If you're a 4/10 looks guy is chasing 7/10 girls shooting too high? ect..

Another point on status. 

You listed  "celebrity/status" as just above looks... But does this only include extreme global status or more subtle local status - like being a boss at a random company, or the bar manager, or just power/status/approval/popularity in any context no matter how small, local ?

And if this high status guy is also ugly does the status counteract his lacking looks and girls are still attracted do yhou think? 

.. on purpose of breeding 

You say "the purpose of sex is to breed with more attractive people - but what about all the ugly couples that exist? there's many ugly couples and ugly people born every day, perhaps many of them are even happy together?  so people are clearly motivated to fuck without improving genes too ? 

Edited March 16 by Optimized Life

[Leo Gura]

 

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And now after all this time you randomly change your mind? I just don't understand why only now you produce this answer?

It was actually triggered by my awakenings. I had awakenings that gave me much deeper insight into how attraction works. Without the awakening I was not conscious enough to see it.

Quote

And a theme you presented from the short/royal family wing example was that : Boldness/decisiveness and big bools outweighs looks and all else (minus celebrities) - so do you now just think that looks alone overpowers extreme boldness like your short asain wing had? 

Boldness can take you far in life. But it's not everything.

Looks is also a complex issue. Someone might be short, but otherwise great looking, or tall and ugly. So you shouldn't over-simplify these things.

Quote

So this may sound autistic but I ithink many of us would prefer if you could precisely as possible distinguish to what extent you think looks matter relative to everything else in a numerical scale, and give your opinion on what a guys limits are based on his looks ... for example, does it only matter if you're ugly? or does not being a chad matter a lot too? if you're a 6/10 can you achieve what a chad achieves with enough game? If you're a 4/10 looks guy is chasing 7/10 girls shooting too high? ect..

Look, this isn't science. Attraction is a nebulous thing. I don't have numerical scales of how it works.

You shouldn't be thinking so hard about this. It doesn't matter. You only need to think about going out and talking girls. If you start obsessing of your looks to his anal numerical degree then you will struggle to get laid, because all this thinking is antithetical to game.

You will never get clear-cut answers about attraction because it's a very messy, multi-factorial process. Dozens of factors go into making someone attractive. The more of those factors you have the higher your success rate becomes. Some of those factors you can control and some you can't. Don't worry about the ones you can't, worry about the ones you can.

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Another point on status. 

You listed  "celebrity/status" as just above looks... But does this only include extreme global status or more subtle local status - like being a boss at a random company, or the bar manager, or just power/status/approval/popularity in any context no matter how small, local ?

And if this high status guy is also ugly does the status counteract his lacking looks and girls are still attracted do yhou think? 

The status only helps if it's something she can experience or see/feel. If you're the boss of your company and you go out to a bar, no girl there will know or care. So that will add nothing to your results. But if you're the boss of your company and you want to date your secretary, your higher position obviously helps you. Or if you go to the bar with 20 of your employees and they are all flocking around you, this makes you more attractive in the bar.

There are complex tradeoffs between status and ugliness. Obviously if you look like troll but have high status then you will get laid less then if you were high status and had great looks. But you will get laid more with high status than otherwise.

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.. on purpose of breeding 

You say "the purpose of sex is to breed with more attractive people - but what about all the ugly couples that exist? there's many ugly couples and ugly people born every day, perhaps many of them are even happy together?  so people are clearly motivated to fuck without improving genes too ? 

Less attractive people pair with each other because that's the best they can get. And many people just have low standards and willing to settle with someone who they are compatible with personality-wise and looks are not a big deal for them. Most people are not so looks-obsessed. In a sense, when we're talking about pickup, it's an very biased pursuit because pickup assumes you're into chasing hot girls. Most people in the world aren't doing that. They just settle for the first girl that is willing.

Edited March 17 by Leo Gura

[Bittu]

There's always those guys who don't look great, don't have fame or status and date hot women anyway. Keep this in mind.

[RendHeaven]

On 3/16/2024 at 5:44 PM, Leo Gura said:

The status only helps if it's something she can experience or see/feel.

This is somehow extraordinarily profound

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, RendHeaven said:

This is somehow extraordinarily profound

It's really basic.

A foot-long dick can't help you get girls simply because she doesn't know you have it. And if you tell her you have it, it sounds desperate and creepy so it actually works against you.

Edited March 19 by Leo Gura

[RendHeaven]

31 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's really basic.

Yes, but the ramifications:

If the bottleneck is her perception, then whether or not you have "objective" (consensus) status measures is secondary to the illusion you cast.

• you can spin status out of thin air
• but also "genuine" status (A list celebrity, etc.) is also spun out of thin air
• the appearance (of status) is its own substance, a self-fulfilling prophecy that snowballs out of control with just a tinge of group think (human minds pinging off of each other building a web)
  • there is no such thing as status, except when the mind pretends there is. the goodies associated with this pretense makes one want to participate, and at that point status is made concrete and the consequences of such manifest

By piercing the charade and integrating at a cellular level, one unassumingly acts like someone with enormous status

• 0 desperation, 0 fucks given, unafraid to voice and pursue desires, barely perceives losses (if at all). After all, we are all the same. What am I so afraid of?
  • ALL low-status tells stem from fear
  • by being congruently fearless you can short-circuit the status-ladder (and ironically receive the associated goodies which would physically cement your place at the top as well)
• in thinking that status is independent of perception, you are permitting "status" to be an entity that further dominates and controls your human behaviors and states, making you more fearful and stripping you of status

All that being said, If I were at a bar and Chris Hemsworth showed up out of nowhere, he would completely mog me and likely all attention would go to him. How to reconcile the fact that status seems to be simultaneously vapor and solid?

• Women flock to perceived status like moths to a flame (whether or not they admit it lol). Sometimes you can do everything "right," and still the man next to you will have spun a more vibrant illusion than you. 
  • Also let's be honest, we're NOT doing everything "right." Still so full of fear. Fearlessness is Infinite.
  • none of us have control over whether girls give us attention, validation, love, sex, or not. We can only control our degree of fearlessness over time, which correlates favorably with female attraction (but is not guaranteed)

[Leo Gura]

53 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

If the bottleneck is her perception, then whether or not you have "objective" (consensus) status measures is secondary to the illusion you cast.

Lol. Of course. That's why the whole world runs on illusions and lies. This isn't specific to girls.

Do you care if I'm a murderer if there is no way for you to know about it?

Edited March 19 by Leo Gura

[RendHeaven]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's why the whole world runs on illusions and lies.

:')

[Princess Arabia]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

A foot-long dick can't help you get girls simply because she doesn't know you have it

Not every girl likes a big you know what. Some like it small(ish). 😜

[Bazooka Jesus]

13 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

Not every girl likes a big you know what. Some like it small(ish). 😜

I can personally confirm this. Meaning that my guy friends told me about it.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Bazooka Jesus said:

I can personally confirm this. Meaning that my guy friends told me about it.

Like, the "asking for a friend" line? 

[Bazooka Jesus]

1 minute ago, Princess Arabia said:

Like, the "asking for a friend" line? 

Well, let's not get into details here.

[Princess Arabia]

Just now, Bazooka Jesus said:

Well, let's not get into details here.

I know guys don't go around discussing the size of their ting-a-ma-ling.  "Dude, i'm so small but she loved it anyway; blew my mind, yo"!

[Bazooka Jesus]

4 minutes ago, Princess Arabia said:

I know guys don't go around discussing the size of their ting-a-ma-ling.  "Dude, i'm so small but she loved it anyway; blew my mind, yo"!

Hmph. I hereby formally retract my previous statement.

[Princess Arabia]

2 minutes ago, Bazooka Jesus said:

Hmph. I hereby formally retract my previous statement.

lmao

[krockerman]

@Leo Gura

Many PUAs have classifed Owen as a grandmaster 

And ofcourse you can classify pick up as a skill for the ego but I still think it is important to understand this about Owen.

So you say Owen does not get many girls? In his videos you can clearly see him get attraction, attention and make outs etc

If so is this faked? It's possible that even a skilled PUA could fake a video for views or to prove a point. But I want to learn pick up skill from owen and if he fakes or skew his infeild (Massive rejections to get a few good ones and only show the good ones)

Or is it actually the case that he is a grandmaster and still struggle. When you say struggle do you mean struggle to get the actually hot women? Struggle to having to play a massive numbers game?

I am just curious to get a specific review of Owens game to understand exacly what you mean with stuggleing

If you struggle to get girls at the highest level that is an honest singal about a mans ability to get girls by skill and hard work rather than genetics/external factors.

I ask this from a place of genuine curiosity

[universe]

@RendHeaven

Focus on your own sense of status (the status you perceive your self to have) and on releasing your need for attention, validation, love and sex.

Chris Hemsworth would probably not show up at your bar and if he did, he probably wouldn't be interested in 99% of the women there. 

Edited March 20 by universe