I Disagree With The "Death Is Imaginary" Teaching

[r0ckyreed]

I have been practicing memento mori - remember, you are mortal, from the Stoics. Reflecting on my mortality and death has allowed me to be more adventurous and courageous in my life because I know this is the only one I get.

The teachings of reincarnation and death being imaginary seem like dangerous teachings to me because they dismiss the value of this life and assume that this isn't the only life we live.

If I think I am going to live forever, it seems to make me think I have all the time in the world. But the truth is the everyday I grow closer to death.

Some people will object saying that "death is imaginary because you are literally imagining that you will die but the only thing you have is this present moment and death is something you are imagining in the future." I don't really agree with this argument because I may be imagining that I am mortal and that death will come, but the reality is that it will. To state this argument is foolish because that's like saying that Sylvester Stallone being dead is imaginary. It is like saying that the tree falling down is imaginary. But the reality is that Sylvester Stallone will die just like Carl Weathers and everyone else before him. The tree will fall down someday. And more babies and more trees will come to existence.

Death and mortality might not exist in the immediate present moment and may be something I am thinking about right now, but they are still realities present in the human condition. We can see just how fragile a human being is. To say "death is imaginary" is like saying that "covid and being sick is imaginary" since I am healthy right now. But the reality is that change does exist and is not imaginary. The present moment exists right now and is not imaginary. Everything that you imagine takes place in the present moment of course, but that does not mean that it isn't a reality. Imagination is part of reality. So, therefore, anything I imagine is part of reality. Death is part of reality whether I am imagining it or not. This is what objectivity means.

My main criticisms of Actualized Teachings is that they dismiss the concept of "objectivity" and focus on Absolutism and Relativism, but hardly any discussion is on the concept of Objectivity. Objectivity is things that exist whether I am imagining them or not such as gravity, death, and immortality. When I am talking about imagination, I am using that synonomously with thinking. At a higher level, the Universe is creating reality, but at my human level, my human imagination is not creating reality in the same way the Universe is. For instance, I cannot imagine myself being immortal and it becoming true. I cannot change the laws of Consciousness/Physics/Gravity because these things are being "Imagined" by the Universe, which the Universe's power exceeds my egoic power. So, objectivity does exist. People can be wrong about reality. Why would we argue if people couldn't be wrong? Ever thought about that? If it was all just opinion and subjective, then there would be no point in arguing because to say your opinion is more true than someone else's would be a subjective statement, and, hence, you would be contradicting yourself. 

Saying that death is imaginary is like saying that being blind is imaginary. Sure, I am imagining blindness and I am not blind right now, but if I stick a knife in my eye, I will become blind. I don't need to actually stick a knife in my eye to prove that this will happen. That is just foolish. Me knowing that blindness will happen without directly experiencing it is an example of implicit/intuitive understanding.

All I am trying to express is that we should balance the teachings of death being an illusion with the teachings of death being a reality. Death of Consciousness may be an illusion at a higher level, but the death of this human experience is a reality waiting to happen just like how a seed is bound to grow into a tree, and then the tree is bound to fall over. That is its fate. Our human fate is to turn to bones. I find it helpful to reflect on my mortality rather than my immortality so that I can be ambitious in life. I may reincarnate after this lifetime, but I am not going to attach myself to that belief system. I am going to live like this is the only life I get, and I am going to put all of my effort, ambition, discipline, and love into creating the best ego I can create. 

What are your thoughts?

Edited February 11 by r0ckyreed

[Ishanga]

@r0ckyreed I agree with what You wrote... Its very discounting to say that I do not exist and am an imaginary thing in someone else's perception or whatever, lol, its so strange to read this stuff.. Yes yes you took some drug had a grand experience of Oneness and God and all that, but guess what, you came down to reality and to a normal sort of perception, so what does that tell You? The Drug had something to do with it, all it really showed you is that there is a Potential within You, that the normal perception can be enhanced into a more Grand Perception, this is fine when You interpret it as one and then the other, but to discount the normal perception and everything that goes with it (there is Me, then there is You and the others and the cities and nature and planet bla bla bla) as complete imaginary lllusionary non existent, its really crazy if You ask me...

Death should be thought about, Your Mortality should be contemplated, because when You realize Your Body and Mind will not exist someday then it makes You want to do the right things, not stupid things, there is a difference, I'm not going to tell what that is because its best learned via experience:)

 

By the way I'm a huge Rocky fan too, Carl played Apollo like no Other, the perfect person for the perfect part, Great Actor, Cool Guy!!!

[Breakingthewall]

Death is imaginary in the sense that it does not exist now, it is just an idea. There are two ways of looking at existence, longitudinally or deeply. From the longitudinal point of view, death is real and is at the end of the timeline. From the deep point of view, death is just an idea that happens now.

The deep point of view is the one that must be adopted to experience reality in a, let's say, real way. The longitudinal point of view is necessary for the planning and development of human life, but it obscures the depth of the moment. It is necessary, but you have to be able to turn it off completely at will, to fully immerse yourself in the depth. In the depth there is no death, no self, no others, only the fluid substance of reality.

[Thought Art]

Truth and usefulness don’t always go together. It’s not a measure if truthfulness. “I don’t think it’s true because it devalues my life” isn’t a truth seeking stance. 
 

Life is real, hard, relatively long. Your whole life including stoic ideas are aspects of the “dream”. But, you still have to live. 
 

The finite self dies. But, BEING, your eternal being is forever. 

Edited February 12 by Thought Art

[UnbornTao]

We could consider that we don't really know what's being said by that to begin with.

Edited February 12 by UnbornTao

[_Archangel_]

19 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

My main criticisms of Actualized Teachings is that they dismiss the concept of "objectivity" and focus on Absolutism and Relativism

@r0ckyreed Is exacly because you don't distinguish between Abs. and Rel. that you don't comprend the teaching.

To say that " Stallone wil die" is true in the relative day-to-day domain, but it false in the absolute domain cause Stallone doesn't have inherent existence, all he is is a character in this infinite stream of existence. You are imagining his consistency. You are imagining your consistency.

-------

It's years now that i'vs seen you coming up with this topics, and the leit-motif is always this misunderstanding.
Nothing has inherent existence, no separation. no will of its own. Every object that appears in your experience is perpetually sustained by a process of immagination. Including the concept of death.
 

 

[r0ckyreed]

13 hours ago, Thought Art said:

Truth and usefulness don’t always go together. It’s not a measure if truthfulness. “I don’t think it’s true because it devalues my life” isn’t a truth seeking stance. 
 

Life is real, hard, relatively long. Your whole life including stoic ideas are aspects of the “dream”. But, you still have to live. 
 

The finite self dies. But, BEING, your eternal being is forever. 

It’s as if truth-seeking is a meaningless pursuit in the most literal sense because all meaning is false-seeking.

We have to live in some falsehood in order to even have a chance at understanding. For instance, even though food and sleep are hallucinations, I still need to engage in those illusions to live. 

I just don’t see how Truth can’t also be practical. Realizing that the ego is an illusion is so useful because I no longer need to take myself and reality so seriously. I don’t have anxiety when I am in alignment with Truth.

[r0ckyreed]

12 hours ago, UnbornTao said:

We could consider that we don't really know what's being said by that to begin with.

Amen.

 

[r0ckyreed]

7 hours ago, _Archangel_ said:

@r0ckyreed Is exacly because you don't distinguish between Abs. and Rel. that you don't comprend the teaching.

To say that " Stallone wil die" is true in the relative day-to-day domain, but it false in the absolute domain cause Stallone doesn't have inherent existence, all he is is a character in this infinite stream of existence. You are imagining his consistency. You are imagining your consistency.

-------

It's years now that i'vs seen you coming up with this topics, and the leit-motif is always this misunderstanding.
Nothing has inherent existence, no separation. no will of its own. Every object that appears in your experience is perpetually sustained by a process of immagination. Including the concept of death.
 

 

Is there such a thing as an Absolute distinction? If not, then how do relative distinctions even exist in the first place? If there is, then what is an absolute distinction? I feel like you aren’t making a distinction between objectivism and absolutism. Objectivism and Absolutism aren’t the same.

I thought I did a great job at distinguishing relative and absolute in my original post. I said death is an illusion at the level of the Universe but not at the level of a human being. What more can I do?

We are basically saying the same thing.

I am just saying that it isn’t practical to live as if death doesn’t exist. It doesn’t even fit reality. Birth and death are happening all around us inside the Universe. 

It is kind of redundant to say absolute death doesn’t exist because the whole concept of death is something that is inside the Universe, which means that the Universe itself is not subjugated to that reality.

Edited February 13 by r0ckyreed

[LfcCharlie4]

I agree

I think a lot of seekers have a secret ambition to become 'above human' and then go on the whole 'nothing matters' crusade as an excuse to spiritually bypass

Like, yes, absolutely, that's fine, but right now you're still HUMAN so go live, enjoy this experience and live the best life you can.

There is no reason not to enjoy this human experience to the best of our ability & live in TRUTH 

[Razard86]

I personally proved Death is imaginary to me. All you have is speculation. Speculation is not truth. You have to have the courage to test the bluff of death. Also there is tons of evidence it is imaginary why do you think I upload NDE's? So yes Death is imaginary, but it is the greatest form of imaginary deception along with physical and emotional pain. Without these 3 things, you would know absolutely you are in a dream. 

I repeat speculation is a waste of time, you will never discover God/Truth/Love with just speculation. If you actually died you would know its just imagination and it would shock the hell out of you because it will contradict everything you ever thought was true.

[_Archangel_]

@r0ckyreed

10 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

I am just saying that it isn’t practical to live as if death doesn’t exist. It doesn’t even fit reality. Birth and death are happening all around us inside the Universe. 

Leo never taught to live as if death is imaginary, quite the opposite infact. This is a fantasy of yours. 
Don't confuse investigation of Truth with a prescription on how to behave in day-to-day life. 
Conventional life is lived by conventional rules. Even if death is imaginary, that doesn't mean you should go jump from a building.

10 hours ago, r0ckyreed said:

It is kind of redundant to say absolute death doesn’t exist because the whole concept of death is something that is inside the Universe, which means that the Universe itself is not subjugated to that reality.

No one is denying that "death is something that is inside the Universe". This is true, in relative terms.
When Leo says Death doesn't exist, he's not negating the concept. He's saying you are imagining the concept, And there is no real concrete reality where this process is gripped upon.

Hope this clear it up.


 

[Oppositionless]

On 2/11/2024 at 5:38 PM, r0ckyreed said:

I have been practicing memento mori - remember, you are mortal, from the Stoics. Reflecting on my mortality and death has allowed me to be more adventurous and courageous in my life because I know this is the only one I get.

The teachings of reincarnation and death being imaginary seem like dangerous teachings to me because they dismiss the value of this life and assume that this isn't the only life we live.

If I think I am going to live forever, it seems to make me think I have all the time in the world. But the truth is the everyday I grow closer to death.

 

that’s one interpretation, but to me, the belief (and that’s all it is, I don’t claim to be awakened) in immortality has the opposite effect.

in my life, it means that unresolved issues are going to follow me to the next life, because death isn’t an easy escape. 

Edited February 13 by Oppositionless

[inFlow]

On 2/12/2024 at 1:38 AM, r0ckyreed said:

The teachings of reincarnation and death being imaginary seem like dangerous teachings to me because they dismiss the value of this life and assume that this isn't the only life we live.

 

LOL, this idea of one life is what is ruining this entire earth.

[James123]

@r0ckyreed Real you have never born. Therefore, I don't agree. Death is just a imagination. 

[Jowblob]

@r0ckyreed didn't read your little story , you're not awake. Death is indeed imaginary. What happends when you die? You will just change your state of consciousness and the "I" will still be present. When you change your state of consciousness, you see reality for what it is and it is constructed by  "imagination/illusion" aka consciousness/nothingness the building block of all.

[Arthogaan]

On 12.02.2024 at 0:38 AM, r0ckyreed said:

The teachings of reincarnation and death being imaginary seem like dangerous teachings to me because they dismiss the value of this life and assume that this isn't the only life we live.

This is a dangerous teaching. This life is meaningless. And that's a beautiful thing. This is Freedom. And you will keep on dreaming forever. Sorry your ego does not like it. 
 

On 12.02.2024 at 0:38 AM, r0ckyreed said:

f I think I am going to live forever, it seems to make me think I have all the time in the world.

You have all the time in the Universe. You are Consciousness. Sorry to take away the illusion of Urgency. There is none. 

 

On 12.02.2024 at 0:38 AM, r0ckyreed said:

But the truth is the everyday I grow closer to death.

Your argument is like: I don't like the idea that there's no death therefore truth is there is death. 

[Hojo]

What is death?

The cease of existence of you.

When you see God you see that 'you' are the fundamental and exist as nothing. It is non existence and by being non existence it means it exists. Making deaths definition collapse and the word death has no meaning.

 

Edited February 13 by Hojo

[Jordan]

Teaching death is imaginary is dangerous, I agree but I think you are misunderstanding what Leo is trying to say.

You say that the reality is that death will come right? Leo does not disagree with that. What Leo is saying is that death is not absolutely true. Leo talks a lot about what is absolutely true and not what is relatively true because absolute truth is what is missing in most people's understanding of reality.

Absolute truth is what is within your consciousness right now. It is what exists without you projecting anything onto your perceptions. You may see someone die but the experience of it would be emotions, shapes, sounds and colors ext. that you are projecting life and death onto.

Relative truth is using imagined stories to explain the perceptions you have, then comparing other stories to decide what is true. Death is true relative to the reality that those stories construct. Those stories are imagined so you are comparing imagination with imagination which can be relatively true but not absolutely true. I am pretty sure that is all he is saying. 

Objective truths like gravity like you mentioned are imagined based off of patterns that are experienced. The Cause of the patterns has a story created to explain the pattern. They are relative truths and not the same type of truth that Leo is talking about when he is talking about what is absolutely true.

Being blind is not absolutely true because you must imagine being blind and not being blind to conceptualize the difference between them and understand what is being said. The experience itself is all it is. If you want to understand blindness absolutely you must experience it now. If you want to understand it relatively then you can just imagine it but then the concept will just be relatively true.

The point in giving examples of what is absolutely true and what is not, is to open people up to the possibility to being more than just relative objective truths. Most people do not realize this. Absolute truth is where you want to look to level up your relative understanding of reality, yourself, how your mind works, what is a good way to spend your limited time alive in this world ext. It is also where you want to look to improve your understanding of death and your relation to it. 

I think Leo is not that interested in making videos of relative truths. That is what he started out doing. Other people can make videos about that. He sees value in introducing and exploring absolute truth with people. 

[Breakingthewall]

Death is real because the bubble of existence that you are explodes and disappears, but it is not important because there are infinitely more bubbles and all of them are the same: existence 

The problem is that the human mind is incapable of capturing reality, I don't know to what extent it would be possible. I would say that the total vision of what reality is would blow the fuses of any human mind , but it's fascinating to try to see