Posted January 21 (edited) Netanyahu and his supporters are far bigger threats to Israel than Hamas. He is now admitting he will never abide by a Palestinian state. He wants to continue the status quo, blockade Gaza, mass bomb them when they try to resist creating orphans for extremists to recruit, and allow settlers to slowly force out those in the West Bank. This is assured violence, this is the situation that lead to every attack on Israel in the past decades including Oct 7. This is going to blow up when the surrounding middle eastern countries have had enough and given that Israel has nukes and is prepared to use them, it could take the rest of the world with them. Virtually every other country in the entire world including the US believes a Palestinian state is the only chance for peace. If the US keeps supporting Israel after this it’s going to be clear they are entirely in the pocket of AIPAC. Young voters are souring on Israel and this will continue until they are the majority of voters in 30 years, but by then Orthodox Jews will be a much larger population in Israel and their politics will be even more extreme. This is a disaster in the making. Edited January 21 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said: @Lila9 So the ultimate logical conclusion is that you want Palestinians in Gaza, in West bank, to convert to western values and democracy and stop fighting? Also by implication you want Syria, Egypt, Lebanon, Turkey, Yemen, most of Iran, to just speed up development into western democracy, egalitarianism, and feminism? You ultimately want this American ideology to quickly spread and infest most of the middle east, regardless of cultural lose to those following Islam? No, I want it to remain Islam. There is enough Americanization in the world and the Islamic culture has its own beauty which I don't want to go away. But I want it to be a more sane and conscious form of Islam in its approach to human rights and Israel, this exists among many Muslims, but not as a collective. Edited January 21 by Lila9 Let Love In Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 @Raze On one thing we can agree and is that Netanyahu is toxic. 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 It's funny. I like Netanyahu as a person but not his policies. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) @Leo Gura I only like that he goes with his inner 'fire' and truth all the way (even when I am not necessarily agree with things he say) despite all the pressure on him from the outside. The problem is that he is willing to run over and destroy everything and everyone that stand on his way. Edited January 21 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 @Leo Gura 11 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: It's funny. I like Netanyahu as a person but not his policies. Same with me, I like Chris Langan for his smarts but not his politics. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: It's funny. I like Netanyahu as a person but not his policies. Why? He’s on the verge of going to prison for corruption and is arguably responsible for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by riling up extremists towards him. Not to mention all the violence he inflicted on Palestinians and putting Jews at risk. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 No no You should be listening to orphaned land now Ooo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 12 minutes ago, Raze said: He’s on the verge of going to prison for corruption and is arguably responsible for the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by riling up extremists towards him. I don't know enough about that to make an evaluation of its truthfulness. You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 52 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: It's funny. I like Netanyahu as a person but not his policies. Maybe it’s because he so Americanized and appeals to tacit American cultural and social sensitivities. Edited January 21 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: I connected some dots today and realized that what many people here in this thread see as "Israel" is ,mainly, the 5% most far-right sector. I now understand this when I remember all the links and statements being quoted here. Why is that? Maybe those 5% have the highest sound volume, or that the world media wants to focus almost solely on them out of a confirmation bias. Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit. Edited January 21 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 12,000 dead children 85% of homes destroyed 1.9 million people without shelter 60,000 pregnant women I genuinely don't understand some people in this thread. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 14 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit. ❤ Edited January 21 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 27 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Maybe it’s because he so Americanized and appeals to tacit American cultural and social sensitivities. He's very intelligent and he genuinely loves his country. He's not a radical as the left likes to portray him. He lost his brother in a counter-terrorism military operation. Edited January 21 by Leo Gura You are God. You are Truth. You are Love. You are Infinity. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 @Yog 1 hour ago, Yog said: No no You should be listening to orphaned land now Actually dope music and rock in roll. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 49 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Yes of course, people think we’re brainwashed with no capacity for objective thinking while in reality we stand up for our naked survival and all kinds of ugliness, lies and deceit. No you aren’t, you are biased by nationalism. You haven’t been giving unbiased objective analysis, you declared yourself a “proud Jew” early in the thread, basically admitting you stand by Israel for personal ethnicity reasons primarily and have continued to call Palestinians inflammatory things like “savages” confirming huge biases. You aren’t tricking anyone. Stop accusing everyone else of bias towards you when you can’t even present your arguments in an unbiased way. Edited January 21 by Raze Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 24 minutes ago, Leo Gura said: He's very intelligent and he genuinely loves his country. He's not a radical as the left likes to portray him. Regarding loving his country: He is very corrupt, had charges against him and was risking heavy prison time prior to the attack. Also, he was trying to undermine democracy and rule and law of Israel which you call a democracy. There were massive protests against him. Also, so far far he has claimed 0 responsibility for the attack which happened under his watch. Most Israelis I see are mad about this and want him to retire when the war ends. How exactly does he "love" his country? That is like saying Trump loves the US. He is similar to Trump in terms of corruption, not taking any responsibility and undermining democracy of his country. Regarding being radical: He literally is against ANY palestinian state, always has been. He showed maps of Israel before the attack in speeches where Palestine was not even there. Not even West Bank. Also, he has made coalition with right wing fanatics and called for Amalek (call for genocide basically) before the invasion came. How exactly is he not a radical? I am shocked on how you claim to like this guy. He is as bad as Putin, relatively worse considering Russia is a lot harsher survival condition than Israel which is a first world rich country. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 2 hours ago, Nivsch said: I connected some dots today and realized that what many people here in this thread see as "Israel" is ,mainly, the 5% most far-right sector. I now understand this when I remember all the links and statements being quoted here. Why is that? Maybe those 5% have the highest sound volume, or that the world media wants to focus almost solely on them out of a confirmation bias. Because they are the ones in charge and the ones making the decisions both politcally and in the military. I saw clips of Israelis against the genocide in Gaza now. They do exist and I respect them a lot. Issue is they are not in power nor can do anything. The right wing fanatics are the ones that control Israel at the moment. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) 3 hours ago, Lila9 said: hey lived in peace, and they didn't live in peace, depending on the time, the area, and the leadership. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antisemitism_in_Islam I don't think Israel is entirely responsible for creating this hatred. Perhaps the immigration of Jews to Israel and the establishment of the state triggered pre-existing feelings of superiority towards Jews, leading to hatred. They were used to the historical fact that Jews were under their control since the dawn of Islam. And here, what they see is that an inferior group (to Islam) becomes superior, winning a war, establishing a Jewish state, which triggered feelings of humiliation. It certainly hurt Muslim pride and the collective self-image they held, as well as the image they had of Jews in relation to Muslims. The most conscientious solution is not to attack Jews or harbor resentment for their expulsion of Arabs to build a state in a Jewish historical homeland for survival. Instead, it is essential for them to introspect and recognize that Islam have expelled many nations throughout history, committing actions more brutal than what Jews may have done, acknowledge the dirt caused to people in the name of Islam. Acknowledging that Jews also deserve autonomy and one state of their own, while they already have many Muslim states, fostering forgiveness, and moving forward is a path toward understanding, resolution and peace. I am not saying that everything was perfect but I am sure Arabs treated them far better than Europeans did. Just the Holocaust is enough to differentiate the two. Now regarding Israel, the issue is I think that Israel would basically force native Palestinian Muslims to live under a Jewish state and they did not want that. Also, most importantly they did not want to give up their land to European Jew settlers. I am curious, why did not the White European Jew settlers live under Palestine and the authorities of Palestine could be a mixed government between Jews and Muslims? Similar to Lebanon which is Christian/Muslim. Or they could live as a minority group in Palestine depending on the demographics. White European Jews could come in but the native Palestinians would keep their houses and businesses. It would be similar to Syrians immigrating to Germany these last few years. Why create a totally different state? Edited January 21 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted January 21 (edited) @Raze I do not so attached emotionaly to my Jewish identity as much as I care about my country values, but here there is a special case when those two things are overlap. That is why if the Jews will cease to be a majority here, then our values are in danger. To sum it up I am more Israeli than a Jew in my identity, but obviously I am not ashamed at all to be a Jew this is a good religion with decent values. Still a social construction and there are deeper identity facets I am more attached to. Edited January 21 by Nivsch 🌻 Stage Yellow emerges when Green starts to have tolerance and respect to the variety of views within HIMSELF. Israelis here? Let me know! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
