New War In Israel / Gaza

[Leo Gura]

Hamas is the military unit of what ought to be a Palestinian state.

Hamas was not created by Israel, but Israel pours gasoline on the fires of hurt and injustice, which emboldens Hamas.

[Vrubel]

@Nabd I would advise you to dig deeper into what makes someone “native” to the land.

you seem to have a narrow view of this (which is understandable I am not being judgmental). 

For me for example it was always clear as day that White Afrikaners were native to South Africa because they lived there for 400 years+. You can argue that the Bantu blacks were colonizers because they came in and displaced the “true native” Xhosa. More perhaps “bizarrely” if you would tell a white Rhodesian speaking with a perfect English accent that he is not native to the darkest of Africa, it will just not register in his mind. Why so?

because he is connected to the soil and land he builds and defends. A white Rhodesian will feel just as “native” as the black. 

I am not comparing Israel to European colonizers, because Israels claims and necessity for existence goes way deeper. But I want to make something clear about the mechanisms of being “native” and connected to the land.

Edited January 21, 2024 by Vrubel

[Nivsch]

14 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hamas is the military unit of what ought to be a Palestinian state.

Hamas was not created by Israel, but Israel pours gasoline on the fires of hurt and injustice, which emboldens Hamas.

I agree about this pattern. Less about the degree of injustice (but not negate it completely) because I think they have much more responsibility to their outcome than the "too easy life" they get from this thread.

Edited January 21, 2024 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

Just now, Nabd said:

Why do you find it hard to believe that there is a faction in Israel which works on getting rid of all Palestinians?

Post the documents here.

1 minute ago, Nabd said:

It doesn't matter because the claim is Israel wants peace but Palestinians dont. If true then why fund Hamas? A terrorist group that definitely doesn't want peace?

As I said, in the beginning, Hamas started as a charity whose aim was to bring Muslims closer to religion, this is how they started (Dawah).

At this time they committed 0 killings against Israelies, while Fatah (fueled by PLO) was already engaged in terrorism and killed Israelies. For Israel, PLO/Fatah was more dangerous than Hamas at that time. They wanted to get rid of Fatah by supporting Hamas, exploiting that fact that there was an ideological conflict between the two, unaware that Hamas will commit terror attacks in the future.

 

[Heaven]

Jewish country is justified after the holocaust.

The UN agreed they will live in Israel. So they didn’t just occupied the land.

Israel is the Jewish country for almost a 100 years. They are not going to move anywhere. The acceptance should be there to begin with after holocaust. Or maybe there should be a WW3 for Muslim countries to accept it.

Israel doesn’t oppress Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Qatar. Still those countries are doing anything they can to terrorize Israel. It was never about Palestinians and Israel it is much broader.

9/11 Didn’t happen because America is oppressing the Middle East but because of power games.

The history repeat itself. Just in a more complex way. Hamas = Nazis = Isis. 
To try to justify their actions is to believe a story that they are telling you. Guess what? They are lying to you.

 

 

[Vrubel]

32 minutes ago, Nabd said:

This means we are on the same page.

Israelis born in Israel are native to the Levant.

Their grandparents or parents who came from Europe are colonizers.

If they were really interested in making Germans pay back then they could've had their own country as German or European Jews or whatever inside Germany, not in Palestine where they clearly were in the wrong for stealing land.

Their kids however are native.

The argument I stated - which is a psychological one - is that even that first generation is “native”. 
 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Vrubel

[Vrubel]

6 minutes ago, Heaven said:

Jewish country is justified after the holocaust.

The UN agreed they will live in Israel. So they didn’t just occupied the land.

Israel is the Jewish country for almost a 100 years. They are not going to move anywhere. The acceptance should be there to begin with after holocaust. Or maybe there should be a WW3 for Muslim countries to accept it.

Israel doesn’t oppress Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Qatar. Still those countries are doing anything they can to terrorize Israel. It was never about Palestinians and Israel it is much broader.

9/11 Didn’t happen because America is oppressing the Middle East but because of power games.

The history repeat itself. Just in a more complex way. Hamas = Nazis = Isis. 
To try to justify their actions is to believe a story that they are telling you. Guess what? They are lying to you.

 

 

Exactly, isn’t it weird that Arab leaders that care for stability and advancement don’t have beef with Israel but only terrorist lunatics led by Iran care for destroying Israel🤔

Edited January 21, 2024 by Vrubel

[Raze]

49 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

 

Supporting Hamas (by Israel) to hurt PLO/Fatah was done strategically before Hamas became dangerous (i.e. strated killing Israelies).

Hamas started as an "innocent" religious movement or at least, that's how they presented themselves to Israel at the beginning. Nothing new.

 

Not remotely true. They were funneling money to Hamas well after declaring them a terrorist organization.

And the strategy was to divide the Palestinians so they couldn’t get a state, forcing them to resort to violence, so Israel could respond with more violence. In a sense sacrificing safety of Jews to kill Palestinians.

[Joel3102]

4 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

That's empty words. Israel wants land more than they want peace.

If that’s true then why’d they give the Sinai back to Egypt in 1979 in exchange for a peace deal? 
Regarding the Westbank while there are elements that definitely want the land, they didn’t come into possession of that land until Jordan attacked them in 1967 so they took it from them (Israel warned Jordan not to join the war and we won’t attack them).

Edited January 21, 2024 by Joel3102

[Leo Gura]

9 minutes ago, Joel3102 said:

If that’s true then why’d they give the Sinai back to Egypt in 1979 in exchange for a peace deal? 

I don't know the details but probably because they knew they could not hold onto it for long and I'd bet the quality of that land isn't so great.

Edited January 21, 2024 by Leo Gura

[Bobby_2021]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, but now we live in the 21st century, where such things are no longer acceptable. Because we're more morally developed. That's the cost of development: you can't act like a genocidal barbarian.

100 years ago you could kick a dog, no problem. Today it is considered a crime in the developed world.

The middleast is lower in development overall.

Stage red terrorism shouldn't be acceptable nor stage blue/orange occupation and colonization.

And those terrorists are not merely spawning out of rebellion. They are funded by wealthy oil rich countries like Iran/Russia because they want to disrupt the globa order and eliminate the jews, if they had the power. 

[kenway]

 

How Israelis Are Brainwashed

 

[Lila9]

1 hour ago, kenway said:

 

How Israelis Are Brainwashed

 

Lol, when someone, who doesn't know you, tries to make realistic claims about you but it turns out to be full with lies and projections. At least I had a good laugh. 

What I just watched is the GOAT of propaganda with the mere purpose for incitement against Israel and Israelies.

 

[kenway]

9 hours ago, Lila9 said:

the Arab world is known for its sheep mentality

Expand on this please.

[Lila9]

5 minutes ago, kenway said:

Expand on this please.

They are anti-Israel because this is what is expected from them, any pro-Israeli hint in the Arab world which doesn't match the pro-palestinian narrative is frowned upon and seen as betrayal and may have drastic consecunsess for the individuals and their families. In Gaza and WB it may end up with executions.

People are not allowed to express pro-Israel opinions about the conflict or challenge the Palestinians narrative, there is no room for that or for any form of critical thinking. 

[kenway]

11 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

They are anti-Israel because this is what is expected from them, any pro-Israeli hint in the Arab world which doesn't match the pro-palestinian narrative is frowned upon and seen as betrayal and may have drastic consecunsess for the individuals and their families. In Gaza and WB it may end up with executions.

People are not allowed to express pro-Israel opinions about the conflict or challenge the Palestinians narrative, there is no room for that or for any form of critical thinking. 

I still don't understand your perspective. Why are you using the analogy of sheep specifically? Can you give examples?

Also, when you say:-

"The Arab world is known for its sheep mentality"

Where abouts are they actually known for this? In the Arab world itself, or somewhere else?

I'm just trying to understand the Israeli mindset.

[Lila9]

10 minutes ago, kenway said:

I still don't understand your perspective. Why are you using the analogy of sheep specifically? Can you give examples?

Also, when you say:-

"The Arab world is known for its sheep mentality"

Where abouts are they actually known for this? In the Arab world itself, or somewhere else?

I'm just trying to understand the Israeli mindset.

See earlier comments, it was my response to a user living in the middle east who claimed that Israelies are sheep. Which is funny because the Arab world is so much better in practicing sheep mentality. I often see more diverse opinions and critical thinking among Israelies and Jews rather than in Arabs and Muslims.

[Bobby_2021]

19 minutes ago, kenway said:

I still don't understand your perspective. Why are you using the analogy of sheep specifically? Can you give examples?

Also, when you say:-

"The Arab world is known for its sheep mentality"

Where abouts are they actually known for this? In the Arab world itself, or somewhere else?

I'm just trying to understand the Israeli mindset.

I have already mentioned before. The Arab states cannot state an opinion on their own out of fear of offending their fellow states. 

Best examples are Egypt, Saudi and legit Yemen government backed by Saudi. 

1) All three of them want to eliminate the Houthis but are scared to admit it publicly. 

2) Egypt was scared to end the blockade because that would offend the fellow states at the cost of Palestinian lives. They do not care for that either.

3) Egypt has to anonymously assist in the security of the red sea alongside US, UK because shipping in the red sea is a source of revenue for the Egyptian state.

They have stands that they would not say publicly because that would make them look like supporting the west/Israel. Their position is that they are against Israel no matter what even at the cost of Palestinian lives and even their own financial security. That's Sheep mentality.

Basically, Sheep mentality.

[Nivsch]

The moderate Arab world of Egypt, Jordan, Saudi, Gulf emirates, Bahrain with all the problems is still a magnitude better than the Palestinians and have some healthy common sense with which one can actually talk and reach to some mutual understanding.

Edited January 21, 2024 by Nivsch

[Vrubel]

Ben Gvir and Smotrich as elected officials is a new phenomenon in Israel. Historically Israel’s leader were very down to earth and uncorrupted (they had to be for survival of the country), I can still see this integrity within the center left. 

Ben Gvir and Smotrich are so dense and self defeating its a matter of time before they get voted out again. Because in democracies governments change! Even Netanyahu will eventually go. There is no way I see him surviving the next election.
Yet the Palestinians decide to do a horrendous attack and cheer for it, totally dehumanizing themselves and throwing themselves at the feet of a government where Ben Gvir has and Smotrich have some influence. Luckily for the Palestinians, other forces in Israel decision making apparatus are more reasonable and level headed. 

Edited January 21, 2024 by Vrubel