Posted November 23, 2023 10 hours ago, Nivsch said: You are in la la land. we don't kidnap people. But I am not blaming you. You just don't know Israel. Its understandable. At the end of September 2023, the Israel Prison Service (IPS) was holding 146 Palestinian minors in detention or in prison Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2023 (edited) 37 minutes ago, Raze said: At the end of September 2023, the Israel Prison Service (IPS) was holding 146 Palestinian minors in detention or in prison Yes, arrested, not permanently, not in bad conditions, and not in threat to their lives but in an humane manner, too humane that people in Israel complain why terrorists in Israeli prisons can even do a degree. Our court here pisses off many Israelis for its humaness I guess you won't see this anywhere in the world. Really. But like really, not because I want to exaggarate because I am an Israeli. Having said that, I don't like that Israel arrests minors and I am not justifying that. But it incomparable in any sense to being kidnapped by hamas. This is still a night and day difference. Edited November 23, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2023 Isn't it obvious that Israel will continue this war as long as hostages are still being held. Oh, and those unspeakable atrocities committed on 7/10 might also play a role. Anybody here blaming or demonizing Israel is fooling himself. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 23, 2023 6 minutes ago, Vrubel said: Isn't it obvious that Israel will continue this war as long as hostages are still being held. Oh, and those unspeakable atrocities committed on 7/10 might also play a role. Anybody here blaming or demonizing Israel is fooling himself. +1 ❤ 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) The silent majority shows himself again 🥰 Unfortunately the moderates and the developed ones who doesn't fall into simplistic juicy slogans and twisted on its head manipulative schemes, are less prone to jump into protests, but this is the nature of these things. But from time to time we see a really non-violent, mature and heartwarming tribute like this. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz6D1nsthVI/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== Edited November 24, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 21 hours ago, Nivsch said: Yes, arrested, not permanently, not in bad conditions, and not in threat to their lives but in an humane manner The two hostages released reported being treated very well by Hamas, what makes you say they are in bad conditions? Hamas is not abusing the hostages in order to defend their image. They are realistically more at risk by being killed by IDF careless cluster bombing of Gaza than by Hamas. 21 hours ago, Nivsch said: Our court here pisses off many Israelis for its humaness I guess you won't see this anywhere in the world. I saw part of an old documentary from some years ago where the kids were put in jail for months just for throwing rocks at soldiers. They were put in cages during cold nights and the judges would not even look at them but immedietly find them guilty. It was so bad the UN had to intervene for them to treat them better. Also if you want more recent proof. Stripped, beaten and blindfolded: new research reveals ongoing violence and abuse of Palestinian children detained by Israeli military | Save the Children International. Just google this. For some reason links cannot be sent here. Edited November 24, 2023 by Karmadhi Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 @Nivsch The only countries that fully support Israel are: USA (powerful Jew lobby), UK (they created them so gotta defend the mess they made), Germany (Holocaust guilt), Hungary (Openly racist against Muslims). The rest of the West is being critical in different degrees. Even Macron said it has gone too far. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 @Karmadhi 4 minutes ago, Karmadhi said: @Nivsch The only countries that fully support Israel are: USA (powerful Jew lobby), UK (they created them so gotta defend the mess they made), Germany (Holocaust guilt), Hungary (Openly racist against Muslims). The rest of the West is being critical in different degrees. Even Macron said it has gone too far. So true. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 24 more hostages were released by Hamas as part of the deal they made with Israel to have this temporary ceasefire. https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/hostages-released-hamas-israel-ceasefire-deal-thai-captives-egypt-rcna126380 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 The irony is that Hamas are portrayed as barbaric Jew haters but have done their best to protect their hostages despite being bombarded by the hostages host country who is their adversary. Lets see if these hostages will be allowed to speak on their experience as the two ladies did and the media had a melt down at them speaking of their positive experience - with the one lady shaking hands and saying bye to the Hamas guy even lol. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) @Karmadhi Most american citizens support Israel, and most Europeens also support and understand Israel's right to deffend itself. Most europeen leaders also understand what Israel does in the big picture. Of course nobody likes to see innocent citizens pay the price of this war and the emotions are mixed and it is very understandable. Does it mean there is no place for critisizm about the surgicality of the air attacks? This is also understandable. Maybe there is room to make more effort to attack more accurately but this is really a kind of thing that is very easy to judge from a distance when you don't have to deal with a terror organization that assimilates between civilians as much as possible. This does not invalidate the understanding and support in the macro level. Both considerations can be held by the same person as people are themselves complex. Edited November 24, 2023 by Nivsch 🏔 Spiral dynamics can be limited, or it can be unlimited if one's development is constantly reflected in its interpretation. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 1 hour ago, Nivsch said: The silent majority shows himself again 🥰 Unfortunately the moderates and the developed ones who doesn't fall into simplistic juicy slogans and twisted on its head manipulative schemes, are less prone to jump into protests, but this is the nature of these things. But from time to time we see a really non-violent, mature and heartwarming tribute like this. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Cz6D1nsthVI/?igshid=MzRlODBiNWFlZA== ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 Hamas released a few hostages in exchange to a ceasefire and releasing prisoners by Israel. Pro-Palestinians: "Hamas is so humane, see?" Israel after all the abuse it received by Hamas since 1986 including the October 7 attack:"🙄🤦🏼♀️" Perhaps you would be better off finding some way to embrace your new nature, instead of fighting it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 40 minutes ago, Lila9 said: ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪💙⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪💙⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ 💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙💙 ⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪⚪ Why are you so crazy about israel though, somebody said you’re dutch Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, zazen said: The irony is that Hamas are portrayed as barbaric Jew haters but have done their best to protect their hostages despite being bombarded by the hostages host country who is their adversary. Lets see if these hostages will be allowed to speak on their experience as the two ladies did and the media had a melt down at them speaking of their positive experience - with the one lady shaking hands and saying bye to the Hamas guy even lol. That's a very vile thing to say. You have no idea how they treat the hostages, especially the most vulnerable ones. Also, Stockholm syndrome is the only way people can cope with the trauma of kidnapping and total loss of control. There is a difference between imprisonment and being kept hostage by a terror group. Can you imagine being totally at the mercy of your terrorist captors. Edited November 24, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) If you're pro-Palestine you must realize that the silent majority is turned off by your protests and talking points, they can see through the low-brow herd mentality and blatent hypocrisy. Yesterday an anti-Islam party became by far the biggest in Dutch elections. I didn't vote for them but I think it's no coincidence they won so overwhelmingly at this time. Edited November 24, 2023 by Vrubel Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vrubel said: That's a very vile thing to say. You have no idea how they treat the hostages, especially the most vulnerable ones. Also, Stockholm syndrome is the only way people can cope with the trauma of kidnapping and total loss of control. There is a difference between imprisonment and being kept hostage by a terror group. Can you imagine being totally at the mercy of your terrorist captors. I'd struggle to imagine being at the mercy of terrorist captors, maybe we can ask Gazans though. Not sure how the hostages have been treated but just to point out that some view them as completely barbaric and wanting to kill Jews (and some of them are and did on October 7th) and they haven't gone and killed the hostages all the while being bombarded to an absurd degree. Can you imagine having 25'000 tonnes of bombs dropped on where you are in Gaza - equivalent to 2 nuclear bombs. Hiroshima's bomb was 15'000 tonnes for comparison, and Hiroshima is about 3 times bigger than Gaza. And you have to try keep hostages safe in this situation with your life on the line doing so - apparently people you utterly hate. Whats vile is the attitude towards Palestinians and the dehumanization of them. Whilst this whole hostage swap is going on people are wondering 'hey, how come Israel have women and children prisoners.' to begin with. Even the liberal leftist opposition party in Israel claims that most of the deaths in Gaza are just terrorists hamas fighters. Edited November 24, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
Posted November 24, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Vrubel said: If you're pro-Palestine you must realize that the silent majority is turned off by your protests and talking points, they can see through the low-brow herd mentality and blatent hypocrisy. Yesterday an anti-Islam party became by far the biggest in Dutch elections. I didn't vote for them but I think it's no coincidence they won so overwhelmingly at this time. Blatant hypocrisy? The West are supporting Ukraine that's full of neo-Nazis who hate Jews and then go on to support Israel in the name of supporting the Jewish people and their homeland. Remember when the Canadian parliament applauded a man who fought for the Nazi's just last month then backtracked once it got media attention and backlash. Western imperialists don't actually stand for what they claim to stand for, and their framing of where they stand in these conflicts is a cloaked lie. The empire just supports who it supports because that's where its interests happen to be at the time. What is hypocritical is inflicting violence and destruction throughout the world in order to pursue planetary hegemony while lying about your reasons for doing so. Concepts like democracy and human rights are not values they wish to promote as much as they are political sticks used against adversarial nations - these nations are aggressively criticized for human rights violations and lack of democracy. It also appeases domestic Westerners as it gives us a sense of righteousness - that our states are going to instill great values and democracy to those nations. It allows us in the West who are comfortable and not used to harsher realities to stomach our empire going around the world dick swinging its power and causing carnage. Paying lip service to democracy and human rights is just one tactic in their playbook to create the façade of moral authority, all the while tactfully undermining governments that go against them. Edited November 24, 2023 by zazen Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
