New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This is very far from being the case, there is no genocide or ethnical cleaning done by Israel. War crimes? Yes, there are no wars without war crimes. There are also war crimes done by Hamas, more severe ones. Are you going to ignore that?

+1

5 hours ago, Lila9 said:

What about the constant abuse Hamas do to Israel by suecidal bombers? Hamas who killed and tortured bodies of innocent Israeli people? What about the estimated 50% of Palestinians who support them and celebrated when they did the massacre? What about the Palestinian children who are being taught to hate Jews and to kill them instead of studying Math and English? What about Hamas who use Palestinians as human shields and throw gays from the rooftops, who's their wet dream is to ethnically cleanse Israel from Jews to build a Palestinian dictatorship instead?

Frustrated freedom fighthers

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

So some ignorant child celebrates Hamas in the street, in your opinion the child deserves to die? 

I want them to have a future but they won't have one if hamas stays in charge. tricky. So what do you suggest?

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

They had too much time on their hands to destroy Hamas completely and they do have all the intelligence and funding they need

How can Israel destroy hamas without civilian casualties in your opinion?

Edited November 12, 2023 by Nivsch

[_Archangel_]

3 hours ago, Lila9 said:

This is very far from being the case, there is no genocide or ethnical cleaning done by Israel.

@Lila9 The settlers occupation shit can be considered ethnic cleansing, look up the definition.
Ethnic cleansing doesn't require direct killing.

[lina]

UN resolution vote against illegal settlements on occupied territories. 

Is there anybody here who still thinks the US and Israel were ever serious about the 2 state solution? 

[Lila9]

35 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

So some ignorant child celebrates Hamas in the street, in your opinion the child deserves to die? 

No, and Israel is not targeting him. Israel targeting Hamas.

37 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

We shouldn't be supporting a country that uses the support to bomb innocent people in Gaza.

Didn't your country, the great USA killed innocent civilians in its wars?

38 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

they have one of the best and the most advanced military in the world, and the best they could do is blindly drop bombs in Gaza? Don't they have the technology to locate and precisely strike members of Hamas? That's like using a bird to send someone a message when you have the new iPhone in your pocket. 

How do you so sure they randomly bomb buildings? 

40 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Hamas is a terrorist organization since a long time. They had too much time on their hands to destroy Hamas completely and they do have all the intelligence and funding they need. If the objective was to kill Hamas, a war wouldn't be necessary. They could have done that anyway. You don't need to bomb an entire country for Osama bin Laden. 

If Israel had intentions to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, it would have happened long before October 7. Over the years, the Palestinian population has only increased.

Israel showed tolerance towards Hamas for an extended period, enduring its acts of terror. However, after October 7, Israel recognized the need to address the threat posed by Hamas and took steps to eliminate it, realizing the potential great danger to the country.

45 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

The logic you're presenting is simply ridiculous. And I'm no longer going to believe that this war is for Hamas. It's something else entirely with Hamas as a favorable excuse. This is clear as day given the humanitarian crisis in the region and the large scale displacement. 

This is your problem that you don't believe in Israel.

There are Israelis in this forum who have shared their experiences, having grown up in Israel, served in the army, and understand the Israeli mentality and the Israeli army better than you and everyone who claims the IDF is untrustworthy. 

[Buck Edwards]

26 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

 

I want them to have a future but they won't have one if hamas stays in charge. tricky. So what you suggest?

I suggest that Israel stop the killings of children. If Israel really wanted a future for these children, they would have already had one. They could have kidnapped the children instead of bombing them. They could have easily transported these children to other safer places in the world for their future. Everything is possible if there's intent for it. Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization. It won't be as big as Russia. Israel can take care of Hamas. The war is never for Hamas. No terrorist organization has the funding of a country. They can hardly kill anyone, at least not 10,000 children. They can carry out terror strikes but it won't destroy a whole nation the way a war does. Are you going to tell me that a powerful country can't deal with terrorists given the technology that we have today? That would be a joke. 

Quote

How can Israel destroy hamas without civilians casualties in your opinion?

 

They should already know Hamas members. They can also militarilistically occupy Gaza without bombing. Send military into Gaza directly the way American soldiers existed in Afghanistan. Then build military bases in Gaza. Then take care of Hamas and hold people hostage during the time. Is this difficult? A shit ton of military bases throughout Gaza will be enough to fully occupy it and then gradually destroy Hamas. Release hostages and rebuild them or set up temporary Israeli governments until they elect their own.. We could get rid of Saddam Hussein. We could get rid of Osama Bin Laden who was manning Al Kayda. Hamas is nothing in comparison to ISis or major terrorist groups in the middle east. 

Israel said Friday it had revised the death toll of the October 7 Hamas attack on Israeli communities and military bases in southern Israel down from around 1,400 to roughly 1,200 people.

Israel's population stands at approximately 9.73 million. That's a lot. 

Okay now let's see what else can be done. 

Weakening the financial resources of Hamas? So they can't fund a military wing. Or ammunition. 

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/hamas-cash-to-crypto-global-finance-maze-israels-sights-2023-10-16/

Excerpts taken from this - 

Palestinian militant group Hamas uses a global financing network to funnel support from charities and friendly nations, passing cash through Gaza tunnels or using cryptocurrencies to bypass international sanctions, according to experts and officials.

However, Hamas, which governs the Gaza Strip, will face even more obstacles accessing funds after the rampage by the group's gunmen that killed hundreds of Israelis, mainly civilians. Israel has responded with the heaviest bombardment of Gaza in 75 years of conflict.

Earlier this week, Israeli police said they froze a Barclays bank account the authorities said was linked to Hamas fundraising and blocked cryptocurrency accounts used to gather donations, without specifying how many accounts or the value of the assets.

The move provided a glimpse of a complex financial web, some legitimate, much hidden, that underpins Hamas, or the Islamic Resistance Movement, and its government in the Gaza Strip, which it has run since 2007.

Matthew Levitt, a former U.S. official specialised in counterterrorism, estimated the bulk of Hamas' budget of more than $300 million came from taxes on business, as well as from countries including Iran and Qatar or charities.

Last February, the State Department said that Hamas raises funds in other Gulf countries and gets donations from Palestinians, other expatriates and its own charities.

Reuters was unable to reach Hamas officials for comment for this story. In the past, Hamas has said financial restrictions placed on its donors were an attempt to neutralise legitimate resistance against Israel.

Hamas, sanctioned as a terrorist organization by the United States and countries such as Britain, had increasingly used cryptocurrencies, credit cards or contrived trade deals to avoid mounting international restrictions, Levitt said.

"Hamas has been one of the more successful users of crypto for the financing of terrorism," said Tom Robinson, co-founder of blockchain research firm Elliptic.

However, this year Hamas said it would back away from crypto, after a spate of losses. Cryptocurrency's ledger system can make such transactions traceable.

Blockchain researchers TRM Labs said this week in a research note that crypto fundraising has previously increased following rounds of violence involving Hamas. After fighting in May 2021, Hamas-controlled crypto addresses received more than $400,000, TRM Labs said.

However, since last weekend's violence, prominent Hamas-linked support groups had moved just a few thousands dollars through crypto, TRM noted.

"One likely reason for the low donation volume is that Israeli authorities are targeting them immediately," TRM said, adding that Israel had seized cryptocurrency worth "tens of millions of dollars" from Hamas-linked addresses in recent years.

Between Dec. 2021 and April this year, Israel seized almost 190 crypto accounts it said were linked to Hamas.

SHIPS AND SHELLS

Whether through crypto or other means, Hamas' allies have found ways to get money to Gaza. The U.S. State Department has said that Iran provides up to $100 million annually in support to Palestinian groups including Hamas, and has cited methods of moving the money through shell companies, shipping transactions and precious metals.

Iranian authorities did not immediately respond to a request for comment.

By last year, Hamas had established a secret network of companies managing $500 million of investments in companies from Turkey to Saudi Arabia, the U.S. Treasury has said, announcing sanctions on the firms in May, 2022.

Israel has long accused Iran's clerical rulers of stoking violence by supplying arms to Hamas. Tehran, which does not recognise Israel, says it gives moral and financial support to the group.

Backing the Palestinian cause has been a pillar of the Islamic Republic since the 1979 revolution and a way for the country to fashion itself as a leader of the Muslim world.

Gas-rich Qatar too has paid hundreds of millions of dollars to Gaza since 2014, at one point spending $30 million per month to help operate the enclave's sole power plant and to support needy families and public servants in the Hamas-run government.

"Qatari aid provides 100 dollars to the poorest Palestinian families and extends the period of electricity during a day in Gaza," a Qatari official said in response to a request for government comment, adding that it had helped "maintain stability and quality of life for ... Palestinian families".

Qatar walks a foreign policy tightrope, hosting the region's largest U.S. military base, the Taliban and other groups, often allowing it to mediate.

CASH RULES

Qatar's funding for Gaza actually passes through Israel, a source familiar with the process said.

The funds are transferred electronically from Qatar to Israel. Israeli and U.N. officials hand-carry cash over the border to Gaza.

The cash is distributed directly to needy families and public servants in Gaza and each family or individual must sign next to their name that they've received the cash. One copy of that sheet goes to Israel, one goes to the UN and one goes to Qatar.

"Qatari aid to the Gaza Strip is fully coordinated with Israel, the UN and the U.S.," the Qatari government official said.

In recent years, Qatar bought fuel from Israel for Gaza's sole power station. It also sent Egyptian fuel that Hamas can resell, using the proceeds for salaries.

Stephen Reimer of the think tank, Royal United Services Institute, predicted fresh attempts to fully restrict the group's access to formal financial channels would have limited success. "Their financing tactics have grown to circumvent these."

@Nivsch that's a pretty good effort in controlling the finances of Hamas. Once you get around that, they simply can't do much since there won't be any money. 

Also another tactic is to create international coalition to stop Qatar and Iran and the Middle East to control their flow of money to terrorist outfits. There's where it all starts. The oil countries. That's the only way these countries have money to fund terrorism. 

Also building very large militaries to access these regions. 

War is not a solution.. Even if it's Israel solution to Hamas, make their agenda clear as to how they gonna go about it systematically to destroy Hamas. The whole plan. 

What about forceful evacuation of civilians and settlement of refugees? 

I don't see Israel laying out a plan. Where's the plan? 

There's some bullshittery going on in all the this and the world is not being clued on. 

 

[Lila9]

23 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Lila9 The settlers occupation shit can be considered ethnic cleansing, look up the definition.
Ethnic cleansing doesn't require direct killing.

It's not ethnical cleaning, it's a war on territory. The Palestinians on the west bank attack soliders and settlers with the purpose to free Palestine, from the river to the sea, this is the ultimate goal. Two nations would like to have 100% of the land and this is how it looks. 

[Buck Edwards]

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

No, and Israel is not targeting him. Israel targeting Hamas.

Where? Show me? 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Didn't your country, the great USA killed innocent civilians in its wars?

Yes. A 100%. Nobody supports this. It was wrong. It will always be wrong. Majority Americans were against Iraq War.

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

How do you so sure they randomly bomb buildings? 

It's in the news. You don't seem to follow. 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

If Israel had intentions to ethnically cleanse Palestinians, it would have happened long before October 7. Over the years, the Palestinian population has only increased.

I can't say that I know a lot about the Palestinian history. 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Israel showed tolerance towards Hamas for an extended period, enduring its acts of terror. However, after October 7, Israel recognized the need to address the threat posed by Hamas and took steps to eliminate it, realizing the potential great danger to the country.

Umm. Children in Gaza = Hamas? 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

This is your problem that you don't believe in Israel.

And nobody does anymore. The internet is ablaze with its support for Palestinians. 

2 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

There are Israelis in this forum who have shared their experiences, having grown up in Israel, served in the army, and understand the Israeli mentality and the Israeli army better than you and everyone who claims the IDF is untrustworthy. 

I love them. They're welcome. War is not their solution. Just like you can't blame Americans for the stupidity of Bush, I can't blame Israelis for the stupidity of Netanyahu. 

[PurpleTree]

 

[Buck Edwards]

When exposing a crime is treated as committing a crime, you're being ruled by criminals. 

[Lila9]

5 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

Where? Show me? 

Israeli army protecting Gaza civilians from Hamas terrorists shooting Gaza civilians while they are moving to the South:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzYioE0N-kr/?igshid=MWk3c21jOTYydWw4eA==

 

This:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czi99ULIoEE/?igshid=MnZ5dnJxNXFvcmFv

 

This:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/CzjU5tmoBqC/?igshid=bW9yOTQ3MXF1Y2Rn

 

13 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

I love them. They're welcome. War is not their solution. Just like you can't blame Americans for the stupidity of Bush, I can't blame Israelis for the stupidity of Netanyahu. 

They talked about the IDF, not Netanyahu. They know the army in their country, they served there and people here are still rude enough to dismissive their perspective. I'm sure that if their army was ruthless like the Russian army they would have blantly say that. 

15 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

It's in the news. You don't seem to follow. 

The news you consume might be biased against Israel, bear it in your mind, they may not present the full picture. They would tell you "Israel bombed a building" but they very likely wouldn't mention Israel attempts to evacuate this building and the Hamas attempts of forcing civilians to stay in the building.

They don't address Hamas abuse of Palestinians.

 

[Buck Edwards]

3 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

The news you consume might be biased against Israel, bear it in your mind,

What should be the reason for bias? 

[Buck Edwards]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

That should be a non issue. All deaths should be condemned. Let's not politicize it when children are without resources. 

[Nivsch]

1 hour ago, Buck Edwards said:

I suggest that Israel stop the killings of children. If Israel really wanted a future for these children, they would have already had one. They could have kidnapped the children instead of bombing them. They could have easily transported these children to other safer places in the world for their future. Everything is possible if there's intent for it. Hamas is nothing but a terrorist organization. It won't be as big as Russia. Israel can take care of Hamas. The war is never for Hamas. No terrorist organization has the funding of a country. They can hardly kill anyone, at least not 10,000 children. They can carry out terror strikes but it won't destroy a whole nation the way a war does. Are you going to tell me that a powerful country can't deal with terrorists given the technology that we have today? That would be a joke. 

All of that has been proven to be wrong in october 7th while before that you maybe would be right.

Keep in mind that without bombing before, IDF would be sitting ducks in front of hamas fortifications prepared for IDF for years what would make hundreds of soldiers getting killed in Gaza by now.

Edited November 12, 2023 by Nivsch

[Lila9]

13 minutes ago, PurpleTree said:

 

The world only cares about deaths when it's done by Israel. 

Other deaths are fine and can be ignored. 

[Lila9]

2 minutes ago, Buck Edwards said:

What should be the reason for bias? 

Liberal influence in the media.

Which is not bad, but can be too black and white and lack in nuance. It's automatically presents Palestine as the weak and good while Israel as the strong and bad. Which is not necessarily correct as the reality is more complex than that.

[Merkabah Star]

13 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

They talked about the IDF, not Netanyahu. They know the army in their country, they served there and people here are still rude enough to dismissive their perspective. I'm sure that if their army was ruthless like the Russian army they would have blantly say that. 

So by not blindly believing Israelie posters we are rude. 
 

the bombing of Gaza has proved their army is ruthless to the highest degree. 
 

your arguments are getting poorer as you go on. 

[zazen]

56 minutes ago, _Archangel_ said:

@Lila9 The settlers occupation shit can be considered ethnic cleansing, look up the definition.
Ethnic cleansing doesn't require direct killing.

People tend to link specific words with extreme scenarios. For instance, when hearing "ethnic cleansing," the immediate association is often with mass killings, like the Holocaust. However, ethnic cleansing also involves expulsion or displacement, as seen in current situations, such as Gazans being pushed towards Egypt or people from the West Bank moving into Jordan. While these events may not reach the extreme levels of mechanistic killing seen in the Holocaust, they still represent instances of ethnic cleansing. The extreme cases often shape our understanding of the associated words, even if the current reality is not identical.

 

[Lila9]

6 minutes ago, Merkabah Star said:

So by not blindly believing Israelie posters we are rude. 
 

the bombing of Gaza has proved their army is ruthless to the highest degree. 
 

your arguments are getting poorer as you go on. 

No, it's just you the one who doesn't want to listen and stuck in your bias that IDF is some sadistic devil.

If they were interested in hurting innocents they wouldn't request them to evacuate.

You don't know how IDF operates, you don't know its values and agenda better than Israeli here who know the army's mentality because they share the same mentality and served there. And yes, it's rude to claim that you know better than someone who knows it closer than you. 

Edited November 12, 2023 by Lila9

[Merkabah Star]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Israeli soldiers help Gaza civilians to pass through the humanitarian passage way:

https://www.instagram.com/reel/Czi99ULIoEE/?igshid=MnZ5dnJxNXFvcmFv

That’s a propaganda video. One family only to go down the humanitarian passage? 😀

so kind to hand them some water bottles.
 

Turn the water back on if you want to be seen as kind and compassionate in the worlds eyes. 
 

 

[Buck Edwards]

18 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

Keep in mind that without bombing before, IDF would be sitting ducks in front of hamas fortifications prepared for IDF for years what would make hundreds of soldiers getting killed in Gaza by now.

That would have been an actual war. Face the enemy head on. This is cowardice. Killing and bombing to save soldiers?