New War In Israel / Gaza

[Nivsch]

@zazen Genocides are something else. Not relevant to Israel. Writing it 1000 times won't make it true 🙂

Edited January 12 by Nivsch

[jaylimix]

12 hours ago, Nivsch said:

 

Israel spent ~1.5 billion dollars on a smart fence out of an assumption this will prevent wars, but was wrong.

Israel's fence and Trump's wall won't work.

What will work is this. Place multiple of these babies on the border.

Pass a bill named Turret Lives Matter Stand Your Ground.

[Merkabah Star]

@Nivsch its a genocide. Pierce your bubble to see the truth.

 

[kenway]

2nd Session at the Hague live now on UN TV - Israel's defense

https://webtv.un.org/en/asset/k1c/k1c10lsjoq

[kenway]

10 hours ago, zazen said:

 

 

@zazen 1 hour in and this is almost complete. I think I'm missing Promised Land, Hitler and Blood Libel.

[kenway]

On a side note, it's now clear that Netanyahu's 10th January address was deliberately pushed out at the last minute in order to be utilised by the defense as evidence of intent - that is to say that Netanyahu's intent is not genocide. I can imagine a scenario where they just pushed him in front of the cameras: "Quick just say these words."

The question is does that count, if it's a blatant strategic statement made mostly after the fact, especially when Netanyahu has also deleted tweets that signal intentions in contrast to that.

 

 

Edited January 12 by kenway

[Nivsch]

The head of the courte declared on a coffee brake.

Edited January 12 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@jaylimix

7 hours ago, jaylimix said:

Israel's fence and Trump's wall won't work.

What will work is this. Place multiple of these babies on the border.

Pass a bill named Turret Lives Matter Stand Your Ground.

@Leo Gura, @Carl-Richard, @Thought Art, @OBEler, @Forestluv, @Space, mods and ex-mods, is this post immoral?

   In your views, is @Nivsch and @jaylimix immoral for joking about this genocide?

Edited January 12 by Danioover9000

[Nivsch]

@Danioover9000 So you are taking one photo of a defensive imanignary idea to put in our borders in order to replace the defensive fence Israel thought will prevent wars and was wrong.

And then you use this picture as a proof of a "genocidal" intent? Are you really expecting a serious answer for that?

Isnt it a similar tactic to taking sayings of some soldier boys or a far right wing knesset member and get it out of context to dehumanize Israel as a whole?

So now you try to dehumanize us in getting something totally out of its real context rather than react to the point of the claim?

Edited January 12 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

2 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

@Danioover9000 So you are taking one photo of defensive imanignary less or more idea to put in the border in order to replace the defensive fence Israel thought will prevent wars and was wrong.

And then you use this picture as a prove of "genocidal" intent? Are you really expecting a serious answer for that?

Isnt it the same tactic wide spreaded here of cherry picking the top 0.01% stupid sayings of some soldier boys or a radical right wing knesset member to show Israel as a devil?

   Is this before or after using google translate, or consulting with Chat GPT? You also have the right to remain silent and consult with an A.I first before answering.

   Me using a picture from @jaylimix's Gatling gun mount as proof of genocide is your misinterpreted assumption. My question to @Leo Gura, @Carl-Richard, @Space, @OBEler, @Thought Art, @Forestluv, @Nahm and other mods and ex-mods is a moral question: What @jaylimix did in his post, slipping a joke about genocide and violence towards Gazans and Palestinians, not HAMAs, Palestinian citizens, by IDF, is that one moral or immoral? IMO, IDF bombing that Christian church, and killing some Christian Palestinians makes them immoral. IDF killing way more women, children, and pregnant women, 100 to 10,000 for every 1 HAMAs terrorist, makes this a moral issue.

[Nivsch]

The ratio is 3:1 to 3:1.5 (Not 1000:1)

No wonder though you use the absurd trendy word.

I am even not writing it for you but to prevent a deceiving of hundreds or thousands of readers here.

Edited January 12 by Nivsch

[Danioover9000]

   Not to downplay either side of this Israel/Palestine conflict, but there's nothing special about Palestine and even Israel at all, especially boring Israel. Taking into account all it's history, and geo political power dynamics, the PLO was created by the KGB from Russia, rough equivalent to the CIA from USA, so in the biggest picture, if this was a civilization game, PLO is a small village founded by one city state, and Israel was founded by another city state with it's own ideological agendas. long term both Palestine and Israel are proxies for USA and Russia, for the capitalism/communism warfare, and based on many developmental factors like stages of development and value, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, and other lines of development from person to societal domains, and ideological warfare and beliefs indoctrinated by culture and society, family upbringing, and information ecology consumed and manufactured by big companies for conspicuous consumption, and biases and preferences that shapes one's worldviews.

Edited January 12 by Danioover9000

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

6 minutes ago, Nivsch said:

The ratio is 3:1 to 3:1.5 (Not 1000:1)

No wonder though you use the absurd trendy word.

I am even not writing it for you but to prevent a deceiving of hundreds or thousands of readers here.

   And where did you get that ratio? from Israel's side? Yeah keep moralizing and preaching. Where's your moralizing since then, picking on me and not @Raze or @zazen or @Merkabah Star, or even @kenway? Even @Leo Gura and mods can see this.

[zazen]

@Danioover9000 I'd only add that though dark humour exists but if the person dishing it out has stated such things like that they don't care for Palestinian life - that obviously indicates a clear lack of empathy and good faith in any discussion. Some of Jaylimix's reasoning and points have been interesting and made me think which I appreciate but then past posts like the one below leave a bad taste in wanting to respond to them.

On 24/11/2023 at 7:03 AM, jaylimix said:

I completely reject the death toll coming out from Gaza Health Ministry and so should you all reading this.

The GHM is under Hamas' controlled, who uses the death toll as war propaganda, where they specifically highlight a high number of dead children.

And let us not forget the combatants' death toll, rats who hides underground, whos death matters less than literal rats.

Israel is NOT evil, they do care about civilians, asking them to mouth south, calling off airstrikes if there are too many civilians around.

The same cannot be said about me, I don't care about dead Palestinian children.

I've more often seen dehumanising language come from the pro-Israeli side than the pro-Palestinian side. Maybe certain rhetoric has become so normalised in Israel that referring to the other side in such ways as virus, rats, animals etc doesn't seem to come across bad to their own conscience until they start interacting with the outside world in which they get some negative feedback for their choice of words.

It's language like this that can lead to genocides and normalising ethnic cleansing. Likewise in the case of the Rwandan genocide it starts with speaking of the other side in such ways on public radio stations (referring to them as rats, cockroaches etc) that immunizes them to committing future death and destruction. 

Edited January 12 by zazen

[zazen]

6 hours ago, kenway said:

@zazen 1 hour in and this is almost complete. I think I'm missing Promised Land, Hitler and Blood Libel.

 

Almost like bingo. Will be interesting to hear Norman Finklesteins take on it.

I found this comment on youtube interesting:

Edited January 12 by zazen

[Danioover9000]

@zazen

30 minutes ago, zazen said:

@Danioover9000 I'd only add that though dark humour exists but if the person dishing it out has stated such things like that they don't care for Palestinian life - that obviously indicates a clear lack of empathy and good faith in any discussion. Some of Jaylimix's reasoning and points have been interesting and made me think which I appreciate but then past posts like the one below leave a bad taste in wanting to respond to them.

I've more often seen dehumanising language come from the pro-Israeli side than the pro-Palestinian side. Maybe certain rhetoric has become so normalised in Israel that referring to the other side in such ways as virus, rats, animals etc doesn't seem to come across bad to their own conscience until they start interacting with the outside world in which they get some negative feedback for their choice of words.

It's language like this that can lead to genocides and normalising ethnic cleansing. Likewise in the case of the Rwandan genocide it starts with speaking of the other side in such ways on public radio stations (referring to them as rats, cockroaches etc) that immunizes them to committing future death and destruction. 

   True, talking like that just paints a bad picture of pro Israeli supporters as blind believers and dogmatic animals with no soul, leading to a sort of bad apple spoiling the bunch. I think @jaylimix is part of a symptom of the evils of the internet, and how over consuming social media and Tik Tok rots the brain and makes people sheep. I actually think this person in real life will say and act differently outside of the internet because there's no anonymity, or internet protection, or because this user is appealing to and making fallacies of pathos and ethos and populace, because pro Israeli is much bigger than pro Palestine, therefore he/she sides with the most popular and widely accepted side. I do think the Israel/Palestine conflict is polarizing people's minds, reducing critical thinking and independence of one's common sense making apparatus, any other social context such a person would behave rationally and reasonably, but when some contexts involves wars, or human killings, or terrorists, or any other dark subject and dark loaded terms, that itself becomes a thought terminating cliche, increasing bad faith tactics and disingenuous takes and acts, and reducing good will and good faith exchanges of ideas.

[Danioover9000]

1 hour ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Not to downplay either side of this Israel/Palestine conflict, but there's nothing special about Palestine and even Israel at all, especially boring Israel. Taking into account all it's history, and geo political power dynamics, the PLO was created by the KGB from Russia, rough equivalent to the CIA from USA, so in the biggest picture, if this was a civilization game, PLO is a small village founded by one city state, and Israel was founded by another city state with it's own ideological agendas. long term both Palestine and Israel are proxies for USA and Russia, for the capitalism/communism warfare, and based on many developmental factors like stages of development and value, cognitive and moral development, personality types/traits, 9 stages of ego development, and other lines of development from person to societal domains, and ideological warfare and beliefs indoctrinated by culture and society, family upbringing, and information ecology consumed and manufactured by big companies for conspicuous consumption, and biases and preferences that shapes one's worldviews.

   For the readers I'm supposedly trying to lie to.

[Danioover9000]

@Nivsch

1 hour ago, Nivsch said:

The ratio is 3:1 to 3:1.5 (Not 1000:1)

No wonder though you use the absurd trendy word.

I am even not writing it for you but to prevent a deceiving of hundreds or thousands of readers here.

   Even if I'm wrong in my argumentation and ration, the fact is that it's not a 1:1 kill ratio, 1 HAMAs terrorist killed to one civilian, man, woman, or child killed. The death toll, even if it's not 10,000 to 1, or 1,000 to 1, 0r 100 to 1, or 10 civilians to 1 terrorist, point is civilian death toll is higher than terrorists killed. Is that a highly moral army, that possesses guided and dumb bombs, precision weaponry, knows almost 'everything' when it targets each building? Is a quality of a highly moral army, when it goes to war, has a higher civilian death toll per enemy killed?

[kenway]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

Will be interesting to hear Norman Finklesteins take on it.

 

Currently watching Finkelstein's latest take that was broadcast last night post the South African arguments.

I'd also be interested in hearing his take on the Israeli defense, if for no other reason than to help decode it. There were moments during Israels defense when I literally had no idea what they were talking about. 

 

41 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

I do think the Israel/Palestine conflict is polarizing people's minds, reducing critical thinking and independence of one's common sense making apparatus, any other social context such a person would behave rationally and reasonably, but when some contexts involves wars, or human killings, or terrorists, or any other dark subject and dark loaded terms, that itself becomes a thought terminating cliche, increasing bad faith tactics and disingenuous takes and acts, and reducing good will and good faith exchanges of ideas.

Great observation.

 

 

Edited January 12 by kenway

[lina]

1 hour ago, zazen said:

.I've more often seen dehumanising language come from the pro-Israeli side than the pro-Palestinian side. Maybe certain rhetoric has become so normalised in Israel that referring to the other side in such ways as virus, rats, animals etc doesn't seem to come across bad to their own conscience until they start interacting with the outside world in which they get some negative feedback for their choice of words.

It's language like this that can lead to genocides and normalising ethnic cleansing. Likewise in the case of the Rwandan genocide it starts with speaking of the other side in such ways on public radio stations (referring to them as rats, cockroaches etc) that immunizes them to committing future death and destruction. 

Surprisingly even the Spiral Dynamics model got weaponized and some are starting to use the same "rats/cockroaches" example, but change the wording to "red stage" and then continue with the same dehumanization and supremacy rhetoric to justify the violence and apartheid.