New War In Israel / Gaza

[ArcticGong]

Can anyone explain if the information from prominent Jewish scholars like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstien is credible? They tend to be critical about Isreal which is interesting because of them being Jewish themselves. 

[hundreth]

19 minutes ago, ArcticGong said:

Can anyone explain if the information from prominent Jewish scholars like Noam Chomsky and Norman Finkelstien is credible? They tend to be critical about Isreal which is interesting because of them being Jewish themselves. 

In my opinion they are more credible than their pro Israeli counterpart Alan Dershowitz. I don't know too much about Noam Chomsky's views but I followed Norman Finkelstein pretty closely, and while there is some truth to what he speaks, he goes way overboard and it's obvious he has some Jewish resentment and trauma. Meeting with Hezbollah leaders and proclaiming "We are all Hezbollah" - he's thrown the baby out with the bath water. 

He did an interesting interview where he spoke about his parents and the trauma surrounding them being holocaust survivors.

Quote

But isn’t that maybe one positive outcome of the “Holocaust industry” you decry, is that it has created a climate where people can talk more openly?

I don’t think it’s sensitized people to anything. I would much prefer the way it was before the Holocaust industry sprung up. You simply can’t imagine what it was like growing up the child of Holocaust survivors. The question that used to make my mother most indignant was “How did you survive?” Most of the time it was a very innocent question, but she felt the insinuation: If you survived, you must have been a Kapo, or else how did you survive? Either you did something dirty, or you went like sheep to the slaughter.

It was a source of embarrassment to be the child of Holocaust survivors. First of all, my parents were called the greenhorns, because their English was very heavily accented. And if you were the child of a Holocaust survivor, [the presumption was] your parents went like sheep to the ovens.

 

Quote

When it came to The Holocaust Industry, I had a personal stake, no question about it. I don’t make any pretense to objectivity there. I was the most educated in my family, not the smartest, but the most educated in the United States, so I was the representative fighting the battles. I knew all the main actors personally. That’s why it was so easy for me to take them apart in the book.

Here's the Q&A if you're curious:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/qa-norman-finkelstein

[Breakingthewall]

58 minutes ago, hundreth said:

You don't see that Hamas killed babies intentionally there? The multiple photos of babies burned alive in their cribs in an otherwise in tact room. The bloodied cribs with the baby still there and an otherwise in tact room? How about the "Burned body of a woman with bound hands"? That's not brutal or torturous enough? 

I'm seriously asking. Are you delusional?

I see those 2 babies burned, but I think that they could be put there when they were burned in a house bombed and then do the picture. I need more evidence, because I Know there are a lot of lies if this matters. You should be skeptical too. If there was torture and murder of children, they should show video, because there are thousands of hours of video. The woman with bounded hands could die in figth with Israel, if they tie a woman is to capture as hostage. Maybe was torture, but maybe not. I don't say it's sure that wasn't torture, just that for now its not enough evidence

Edited November 3, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[ArcticGong]

12 minutes ago, hundreth said:

In my opinion they are more credible than their pro Israeli counterpart Alan Dershowitz. I don't know too much about Noam Chomsky's views but I followed Norman Finkelstein pretty closely, and while there is some truth to what he speaks, he goes way overboard and it's obvious he has some Jewish resentment and trauma. Meeting with Hezbollah leaders and proclaiming "We are all Hezbollah" - he's thrown the baby out with the bath water. 

He did an interesting interview where he spoke about his parents and the trauma surrounding them being holocaust survivors.

 

Here's the Q&A if you're curious:

https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/arts-letters/articles/qa-norman-finkelstein

Thanks!

[Raze]

 

https://twitter.com/muhammadshehad2/status/1720454684031283647?s=20

 

Edited November 3, 2023 by Raze

[hoodrow trillson]

For the first time, I don't know what the truth is when it comes to this war.  It's been so saturated with misinformation and garbage that I don't know if the US is backing Israel because that's the right thing to do (terrorism) or because of mAiNsTrEaM mEdiA is purposely manipulating the media to show Gaza in a bad light.  Then there's the history of bombings and killings of Palestinians before this war by Israel.

I've been out of the loop about this situation since it started as I had to do things in life recently, so imagine my surprise when idk what the hell is going on lmao

 

[Inliytened1]

12 minutes ago, hoodrow trillson said:

For the first time, I don't know what the truth is when it comes to this war.  It's been so saturated with misinformation and garbage that I don't know if the US is backing Israel because that's the right thing to do (terrorism) or because of mAiNsTrEaM mEdiA is purposely manipulating the media to show Gaza in a bad light.  Then there's the history of bombings and killings of Palestinians before this war by Israel.

I've been out of the loop about this situation since it started as I had to do things in life recently, so imagine my surprise when idk what the hell is going on lmao

 

And you certainly wont know from this thread.  That said - i think war is a bitch. It doesn't matter who is right anymore - it is about who wins.   My bias is that Israel must stand its ground and destroy all threats.  But at what cost?  At the cost of forgoing their humanity?  Then again, most leaders left their humanity at the door 

[MuadDib]

 

[Breakingthewall]

10 hours ago, hundreth said:

After the entire convo we had, and what you were shown... for you to still say that. If you were here in person I would sock you in the face. Unapologetically. 

Sorry mods.

Btw, if I were you I'd try to be less ridiculous. 

Edited November 4, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Lila9]

Shani Louk's death has been  confirmed after her family believed she was alive and heavily injured in Gaza's hospital which happen to be a false report:

 

[Lila9]

Hamas attack: 80% of bodies were tortured:

 

[Twentyfirst]

10 hours ago, hoodrow trillson said:

For the first time, I don't know what the truth is when it comes to this war.  It's been so saturated with misinformation and garbage that I don't know if the US is backing Israel because that's the right thing to do (terrorism) or because of mAiNsTrEaM mEdiA is purposely manipulating the media to show Gaza in a bad light.  Then there's the history of bombings and killings of Palestinians before this war by Israel.

I've been out of the loop about this situation since it started as I had to do things in life recently, so imagine my surprise when idk what the hell is going on lmao

 

Just look back at 1948. Jewish people got merked by Hitler and they took out their frustration by stealing land from Palestinians in the name of victimhood and religion. Once you understand that part then it all is pretty simple. The Jews who complain about Hitler weren't even alive at that time and the Palestinians who complain about Jews are definitely still alive 

[Nivsch]

Israel's society at its best 🍎🥑🥭📦📝

Every 1 out of 2 Israelis - 50% - go to volunteer these days!

One the most pupular help here is agriculture in the Israeli villages near gasa strip that have lost its workers after october 7th.

And also many more kinds of valunteering works. Just everyone try to help. I try to metiate it with some pictures/videos just to get the feeling of whats going on.

VID-20231104-WA0007(2).mp4

Edited November 4, 2023 by Nivsch

[Twentyfirst]

20 hours ago, DawnC said:

There is a huge difference between having a desire to live peacefully with your neighbors and caring for them the same way you care about your own people.

The Gulf countries, Middle Eastern nations, stability in the region, Ukraine, the US and Europe, along with Iran's secular and moderate populations—essentially, the Iranian regime poses a threat to the civilized world. Their entire belief system is built on opposing America and the West, and they are determined to gain control over their entire region. Ask yourself what made the Abraham Accords possible. The moderate Gulf countries understand this threat better than any of us.

Isn't the whole point of democracy to let the people in other countries choose how they live? Let Iran be what it wants to be

[DawnC]

10 minutes ago, Twentyfirst said:

Isn't the whole point of democracy to let the people in other countries choose how they live? Let Iran be what it wants to be

Unfortunately Iran is not a liberal democracy.  And I'm not in the business of interfering with their domestic decisions. I'm in the business of being aware that some nations/regimes can be hostile, harbor bad intentions, and may be willing to act against other countries. The spectrum of options available to nations includes these choices as well. 

[Breakingthewall]

4 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Hamas attack: 80% of bodies were tortured:

 

15 hours ago, hundreth said:

 

That guy says that 80% of the bodies have signs of torture, but no video shows torture. Why? The guy says there were ten burned bodies of children with their hands tied. but no photos were taken. I'm sorry if it offends anyone that I don't blindly believe what some guy says. Maybe the tortures happened, but evidence is needed.

By the way, before some retarded threatens to hit me, I just want to know if there really was torture or not, I'm very sorry for not believing what a guy on the street says, evidence is needed, as there are thousands of hours of recording It will be very easy to get them, but what has been shown to journalists is without torture or murder of children. I respect a lot of some of you want to believe something and don't want to listen anything that contradicts the version that you want to be happy, it is your life and if that is useful for you, great. There are many people like you, but I prefer to try to find out the truth as precisely as possible and then form an opinion. 

You could believe that if you prefer

Edited November 4, 2023 by Breakingthewall

[Lila9]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

That guy says that 80% of the bodies have signs of torture, but no video shows torture. Why? The guy says there were ten burned bodies of children with their hands tied. but no photos were taken. I'm sorry if it offends anyone that I don't blindly believe what some guy says. Maybe the tortures happened, but evidence is needed.

By the way, before some retarded threatens to hit me, I just want to know if there really was torture or not, I'm very sorry for not believing what a guy on the street says, evidence is needed, as there are thousands of hours of recording It will be very easy to get them, but what has been shown to journalists is without torture or murder of children. I respect a lot of some of you want to believe something and don't want to listen anything that contradicts the version that you want to be happy, it is your life and if that is useful for you, great. There are many people like you, but I prefer to try to find out the truth as precisely as possible and then form an opinion. 

You could believe that if you prefer

This guy is not just a random guy from the street but he is volunteering in ZAKA which is an organization in Israel which evacuating these bodies and he shares his experience, what he have seen.

There are many photos on the internet, of burned people and babies, video tours of dead bodies laying, I don't think it's allowed to share such things here but if you want to find it, use Google and you will get there.

If you don't want to believe to it, then no matter what evidence you will be presented with, you will not believe to it so it's useless to even try and convince you that this has happened.

People deny Holocaust until these days, you know, and there is lot of evidence for it in writing, pictures and videos. People also deny the level of cruelty 6 millions Jews were murdered by, or deny that the number was actually 6 millions. There are many Jewish holocaust survivors who talk openly about horrible things that happened to them during the Holocaust, and yet, some people would still deny this and will not believe them. 

[Breakingthewall]

Just now, Lila9 said:

If you don't want to believe to it, then no matter what evidence you will be presented

17 hours ago, hundreth said:

 

No, you are wrong, if I see an evidence, I would believe it, But I have read the report of the journalists who saw the images and they say nothing about torture or murder of children.

One question: do you think that absolutely everything the Israelis say in this war is true? Or do you consider the possibility that someone, on some occasion, will lie?

[Breakingthewall]

4 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

People deny Holocaust until these days, you know, and there is lot of evidence for it in writing, pictures and videos. People also deny the level of cruelty 6 millions Jews were murdered by, or deny that the number was actually 6 millions. There are many Jewish holocaust survivors who talk openly about horrible things that happened to them during the Holocaust, and yet, some people would still deny this and will not believe them. 

Well ok, I see. I understand your emotional attitude, and that you encourage your team no matter what happens, since you have chosen sides, but I think it is better to try to really understand what is happening. This conversation is sterile and makes no sense.

[Nivsch]

11 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

No, you are wrong, if I see an evidence, I would believe it, But I have read the report of the journalists who saw the images and they say nothing about torture or murder of children.

One question: do you think that absolutely everything the Israelis say in this war is true? Or do you consider the possibility that someone, on some occasion, will lie?

We can argue technically about torture, but the massacre of children in 7.10 is a fact.