My girlfriend told me she is non-binary

[Mada_]

I'm obviously attracted to her, we have sex and I think we have a good thing. We listen to self help audiobooks together and do exercises along side each other. 

 

I was in bed with her the other day and she told me she uses pronouns they/them and asked if it changes anything. I didn't reply because I wanted to think about it. 

 

I can see how you can consider identity constructed, but don't think this is independent of gender. And the whole progressive gender movement tries to separate biological differences from having affect on personality. 

I have a few issues with how this works in society, I dont think it works well and it is a strawman movement. 

 

My gut feel is that it's a deal breaker, it's a tough one. Watching Leo's video on the liberal mind has been helpful. 

[universe]

I would introduce myself as God and ask if that changes anything 

[supremeyingyang]

13 hours ago, Mada_ said:

My gut feel is that it's a deal breaker, it's a tough one. Watching Leo's video on the liberal mind has been helpful. 

1. If you stay, you sign up statistically for a whole bunch of problems down the road. Not pro or con, just be clear about that.

2. Could it be that she is young and just tries stuff out?

3. The metaphysic of you two seems to be very different. It'll lead to a bunch of problems if that is true.

4. Is she other than that statement based in reality? STEM education? Mentally stable? Physically healthy?

Answer these questions and listen to your gut again;)

[soos_mite_ah]

I don't think this will change much so long as you're not weird about it and you guys have an otherwise stable/healthy relationship. They're just figuring thing out and so long as they can communicate what's going on with them, maintain healthy boundaries, etc. it should be fine. As someone who is in a pretty good relationship right now,

I would say that there are 3 entities in the relationship: you, them, and the relationship y'all are creating together. Sometimes, there is an issue that affects one party, but doesn't affect the other two all that much directly. Definitely be supportive in this instance as coming out can be a very vulnerable thing to do for many people. Later on, if you see that this is affecting you and the relationship negatively, then I would suggest looking into other options. The least you can do right now is use the correct pronouns and open up the conversation to ensure that they feel supported in this situation. 

 

[integral]

15 hours ago, Mada_ said:

My gut feel is that it's a deal breaker, it's a tough one. Watching Leo's video on the liberal mind has been helpful. 

What are you smoking, it will have 0 effect on your relationship. The fact that you would end a relationship based on this is equivalent to being homophobic.

 

Edited March 29, 2023 by integral

[supremeyingyang]

2 hours ago, integral said:

The fact that you would end a relationship based on this is equivalent to being homophobic.

lol

[LSD-Rumi]

@Mada_ Tell her, I am non binary too. I identify as the whole universe 

I don't think it will change anything unless she is gay too.

[Roy]

How is she your girlfriend and yet you didn't know how she chooses to (sexually) identify herself lol? That should have been something you figured out or been disclosed in the first day or two of knowing each other.

Unless she is coming out and making up all this stuff now.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Roy

[Roy]

4 hours ago, integral said:

What are you smoking, it will have 0 effect on your relationship. The fact that you would end a relationship based on this is equivalent to being homophobic.

It's absolutely not. If he got into a relationship with this person with expectations and certain personal preferences, and then the other person knew about them and chose to continue the relationship only to spontaneously reveal new information in opposition or at the very least not in line with those preferences. It's like pulling the rug on the entire framework. It's a violation to the foundation of trust and communication you have when you build a relationship with someone.

Let's not do this virtue signaling progressive crap. We are better than that here and not that lazy.

Let's say a guy gets into a relationship with a transwoman, hoping to get married and start a family one day, and the transwoman (deliberately or not) doesn't disclose their original identity/the guy never figures it out. The guy unknowingly continues and invests in the relationship for years only for the topic of children to come up. A brick wall would hit as the transwoman would be forced to reveal they cannot create biological children, it would shatter the entire perception of the relationship. The guy would likely be forced to end the relationship and have wasted years of his life.

Would the guy be "transphobic" in this example? Any sane and fair person would say of course not. That kind of dishonestly and confusion is an attack on the integrity of the relationship. It would also be highly disrespectful to guilt or force the man into an alternative solution like adoption or changing his fundamental desire for biological children.

I see a lot of progressives trying to gaslight people into their twisted idea of tolerance instead of advocating for emotional integrity and good communication. It's kind of disgusting to be honest.

Edited March 29, 2023 by Roy

[zurew]

20 hours ago, Mada_ said:

My gut feel is that it's a deal breaker

Why?

 

[supremeyingyang]

22 minutes ago, Roy said:

Let's not do this virtue signaling progressive crap. We are better than that here and not that lazy.

(..)

I see a lot of progressives trying to gaslight people into their twisted idea of tolerance instead of advocating for emotional integrity and good communication. It's kind of disgusting to be honest.

You said it better than I ever could. I praise your post, it's a great problem.

4 hours ago, integral said:

What are you smoking, it will have 0 effect on your relationship. The fact that you would end a relationship based on this is equivalent to being homophobic.

What is the logic behind it?

You can be positive towards transpeople without wanting to date them.

Edited March 29, 2023 by supremeyingyang
edit

[integral]

2 hours ago, Roy said:

It's absolutely not. If he got into a relationship with this person with expectations and certain personal preferences, and then the other person knew about them and chose to continue the relationship only to spontaneously reveal new information in opposition or at the very least not in line with those preferences. It's like pulling the rug on the entire framework. It's a violation to the foundation of trust and communication you have when you build a relationship with someone.

Let's not do this virtue signaling progressive crap. We are better than that here and not that lazy.

Let's say a guy gets into a relationship with a transwoman, hoping to get married and start a family one day, and the transwoman (deliberately or not) doesn't disclose their original identity/the guy never figures it out. The guy unknowingly continues and invests in the relationship for years only for the topic of children to come up. A brick wall would hit as the transwoman would be forced to reveal they cannot create biological children, it would shatter the entire perception of the relationship. The guy would likely be forced to end the relationship and have wasted years of his life.

Would the guy be "transphobic" in this example? Any sane and fair person would say of course not. That kind of dishonestly and confusion is an attack on the integrity of the relationship. It would also be highly disrespectful to guilt or force the man into an alternative solution like adoption or changing his fundamental desire for biological children.

I see a lot of progressives trying to gaslight people into their twisted idea of tolerance instead of advocating for emotional integrity and good communication. It's kind of disgusting to be honest.

She did not have a sex change, this is someone who does not identify as male or female in the traditional sense, but is still high on feminine polarity not masculine. if they had a sex change and pulled out a dick right before having sex then yes i would say that's a rug pull and unethical, but to say your non-binary is more of a philosophical note about how she views herself. Transgender is a major identity crises where they really don't like the body they are in and want or wish they where the opposite sex. 

The gf is, feminine, does everything in a feminine way but does not identify as being strictly female. So it cant possible have any impact on the relationship. Basically he never thought of this before and his preconceptions (GUT) is a state of fear and judgement of the unknown and a form of phobia towards it. 

2 hours ago, supremeyingyang said:

What is the logic behind it?

1. Sex: Man/Woman Biology (DNA)
2. Gender: Male/Female Identity (Non-Binary...)
3. Energy: Masculine/Feminine Polarity (Spectrum)

The GF is a Non-binary Woman with a Feminine mental state. That's the majority of progressive women nowadays and when you reach any higher level of development you deconstruct gender naturally. It has nothing to do with transgender. If they are more masculine in energy then they tend to want to dress and behave more masculine but when they are more feminine they look and behave exactly like every other GF. Gender identity is not that important when it comes to relationship. What's more important is there Sex, Energy and if there stable in there Masculine/Feminine Polarity. If they suddenly switch to Masculine midway during the relationships it would be a problem.

If you really contemplate on your gender identity long enough you'll eventually have no idea what you identify as. But how you relate to people, behave, think or value youll asses as more masculine or feminine. 

Edited March 29, 2023 by integral

[Arcangelo]

21 hours ago, Mada_ said:

it's a deal breaker

 

[Jannes]

She just says she likes to use different pronouns. She doesn't say that she would do physical operations or something like this.

Just see if you like her as a person and don't think about how she wants to be called.

It's like you want to use a fork but the fork you have in your hand is actually called spoon so you look for a fork which is called fork. See how stupid this is? The pronoun is not the actual thing.

 

[Basman]

I don't know if it matters, but she might have autism. Gender dysphoria and non-binariness corelates positively with being on the spectrum.

[supremeyingyang]

10 hours ago, integral said:

 

1. Sex: Man/Woman Biology (DNA)
2. Gender: Male/Female Identity (Non-Binary...)
3. Energy: Masculine/Feminine Polarity (Spectrum)

The GF is a Non-binary Woman with a Feminine mental state. That's the majority of progressive women nowadays and when you reach any higher level of development you deconstruct gender naturally.

1. I don't think that the majority of progressive women as I understand it are non-binary. To say finally yes or no I would need to make way more detailed definitions.

2. Why subscribe even to this Ideology? Seems indirect, like you could do it without anyone noticing if the GF in question is so female. Your wrote it here:

10 hours ago, integral said:

The gf is, feminine, does everything in a feminine way but does not identify as being strictly female.

3. What if I (OP) just doesn't want the Ideology?

4. I don't see any logic bringing you from all the statements of you to the conclusion: Not wanting to be in a Relationship with a non-binary makes some equivalent of being homophob - double lol. Edit: Talking about a intimate Relationship, not friends.

10 hours ago, integral said:

If you really contemplate on your gender identity long enough you'll eventually have no idea what you identify as. But how you relate to people, behave, think or value youll asses as more masculine or feminine. 

Consider I already went through this contemplation and I know exactly what I am;)

I met the first Trans Person in 2009 and I was in very progressive circles. Only thing what baffles me: EXACTLY what we discussed THEN is now mainstream discussion. From Trans, to vegan, to environment, pragmatic masculinity, more respectful work environment... Wouldn't EVER dared to dream THAT happen!!! So many good societal developments overall in the last 10-15 years. An still, sometimes the discussion goes over board and is just not leading to benefitial goals, but big resent. I'm not a person with no exposure "don't liking the ideology", I've seen it in action. I was there. You don't need to believe me. Maybe it's different from the pasts experience. I don't really care what persons do in privat, as long as no one gets blamed for not wanting what they have NOT signed up for.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by supremeyingyang
edit

[Jacob Morres]

I guess the question to ask would be -

Does her identifying with being non-binary conflict with a value/lifestyle/happiness of yours? What are your needs/desires?

I don't think that all non-binary people are the same with the same ideologies. She could be pretty non-ideological and even still be meeting your needs/desires. It could even be an opportunity to learn more about the philosophy/perspective

I guess a personal example was that I used to think vegans were really ideological people who were super hardheaded and push their opinions onto everyone. My sister actually went vegan and I put her in this box thinking she was one of those people. Overtime i realized she was nothing like the perception of vegans I had in my head and she never pushed her opinion onto anyone. She just... went vegan and never talked about it

But if there is a strong conflict with your needs/desires it could probably be a deal-breaker. Especially since your gut says one thing.

 

Edited March 30, 2023 by Jacob Morres

[Spiral]

I’d would not care.

Assuming she still acts and looks feminine.

Edited March 30, 2023 by Spiral

[supremeyingyang]

NON-BINARY - with the discussion I realized it could mean ANYTHING and to me it's cool that people want it their way. But I don't get the need for a label (as they are so diverse that Non-B. could mean ANYTHING). Just live like you want. Maybe get better friends, draw boundaries. Everything cool. No neey for Ideology.

I don't get this: Everyone ELSE has to comply (pronouns, validate their Indentity etc.) by their COMMAND, and then they are baffled that other people react stubborn for being forced. It's like if I go to another family to eat and say I'm a vegan, you need to respect that, only vegan food allowed where I am at and I tell you why you are wrong for eating food. Blabla. But then don't act surprised if less and less people want to associate.

Not to mention ultra conservatives to whom that all is an banzai attack on their values.

It's tactically and strategically as backwards and inefficient as possible to me.

Edited March 30, 2023 by supremeyingyang

[supremeyingyang]

To make my point more concise:

Proclaiming being Non-Binary is the equivalent like voluntaring being drafted in the culture war for one side.

@Mada_  - do you want that? Because - I don't. In 20 year people will laugh about how they acted in their youth while living like their parents - lol