ivankiss

Friendzone my ass

65 posts in this topic

3 hours ago, NoSelfSelf said:

@Lila9 Yea, you can challenge me on chess.com since you are 100% on the opposite side of the planet from me ūüôā

Ok, you seem confident in your skills and I didn't play for a long time but let's see how good I am now: https://chess.com/play/whiterose1234

3 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

 It is very difficult to escape the stigma of beauty. of the falsehood that entails.

sex, sexual selection, the struggle to be alpha, is genetically encoded. It is one of the reasons why human beings are the way they are: a murderer. slave trader, conqueror. It is something very difficult to transcend 

Greens think that they have transcended all this, but they deceive themselves. they have good intentions but you cannot transcend without understanding and they simplify. they think that orange is an idiot, and that it's all very simple, just be good and supportive... then things crop up everywhere

Yes it's difficult and being at stage green doesn't mean that the individual transcended all of this, maybe at stage turquoise that's the case. Still, green has transcended it enough to be motivated to seek another meaning beyond the materialistic crude world.

People move to green when they realize how meaningless orange values are, and that they don't really believe in those values anymore. They realize that at the end of the day it doesn't make them happier or more satisfied to chase materialistic goals and that there are more needs for humans rather than simply money, sex and social status like spiritual needs, emotional needs, needs for a real sense of connection and belonging, art and culture (orange is in deep denial of those importent needs). Every stage solves the problems of the prior stage, green mainly solves orange mental health issues. When people at the pick of orange start to feel nihilistic and experience life crisis they usually either commit suicide or save their lives by seeking alternative ways to live their life what usually end up with moving into green.

In tier 1 everyone think that other stages are idiots, it's not unique to green.


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6 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Every stage solves the problems of the prior stage, green mainly solves orange mental health issues.

Yes, orange is absolutely depressing, empty. the green realizes and tries to retake the tribal, the belonging to the group. He is much happier than orange, but he has a problem: independent thought is prohibited. green is a sheep of the flock, since without the others it is nothing. it depends on the acceptance of the group and does not depart from the group's ideology. What happens to those who realize that orange is human misery but can't get through the mental roller of green? are they yellow? a very mysterious color for me. What does this mean exactly?

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14 hours ago, Lila9 said:

I had a very profound friendship with a geeky guy who I've met in a workplace, he taught me chess because he had no one to play with and I was happy to learn how to play it because I love board games. We used to meet regularly, once a week after working hours, play chess and talk about life, mainly spiritual and philosophical stuff but also to gossip about other people from work. He was gentle and feminine and when I noted that to him he perceived it as a compliment and draw me something to express his gratitude, also said that I'm a good friend and like a sister for him. And yes he was straight. Now he lives in another country. 

It seems like he was attracted to you but was awkward and couldn't ask you out.


Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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14 hours ago, Lila9 said:

Someday you might experience it, (if you'll be open enough to this) and then you'll see that I'm right.

I've been in one. But I do think it is rare. Sometimes you meet people you don't have a preference and compatibility for romantically/sexually, but at the same time you enjoy hanging out with them normally. It's possible.


God dreams that it is human. Humans dream that they are God. There is no difference. 

You were real this entire time. Sight is real. Sound is real. Touch is real. Taste is real. Smell is real. A place which cannot be altered by any beliefs or ideologies. A place which is immune to assumptions. From there you live and will always live. 
 

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2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yes, orange is absolutely depressing, empty. the green realizes and tries to retake the tribal, the belonging to the group. He is much happier than orange, but he has a problem: independent thought is prohibited. green is a sheep of the flock, since without the others it is nothing. it depends on the acceptance of the group and does not depart from the group's ideology. What happens to those who realize that orange is human misery but can't get through the mental roller of green? are they yellow? a very mysterious color for me. What does this mean exactly?

Yeah green thinks that it's more non conformist than orange because it opposes orange mainstream values and there is some true in it, but it's still conformist within it's own group what make it more anti-conformist than non-conformist. I think that real non conformism starts to emerge in yellow which is the real individual thinker, unlike orange who just lives in the belief that it's an individual thinker but doesn't really question yhe materialistic paradigm, science, logic, capitalism, beauty standards and take it as the "real" and complete reality.

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

What happens to those who realize that orange is human misery but can't get through the mental roller of green? are they yellow? a very mysterious color for me. What does this mean exactly?

Why they can't get through the mental roller of green? Because they are biased against green (if so, why? because it's more feminine? because they are disconnected or in denial about their feminine side?)? Because they naturally prone more to left brain thinking and can't understad the right brain type of thinking of green? What's the real reasons? There has to be at least one reason. Whatever reason it is, it can be worked on if there is a geniune intention. The solution would be identifying the healthy aspects of green and consciously working on integrating them.

I think that knowing this model helps to directly work on integrating the healthy aspects of the next stage and move on in the spiral, without falling into traps that people who aren't aware to SD, fall.

Yellow at it's pick, as far as I know, integrated all the values from tier 1 stages, so for orange to be fully yellow it has to integrate green, and for many green who usually don't integrate blue and orange well, in order to move to yellow they have to integrate them.

This is what I'm working on right now, I'm naturally prone to right brain non linear thinking and that's why I'm prone to green more than orange, and after years of disliking it and being judgemental and disgust by many (not all) aspects of orange, I try to integrate the healthy aspects of it like productivity, logic, strategical thinking, achievement and making things done, appreciation of success, efficiency etc. I thought that those are my weak spots but I find that it's completely possible to improve in these things, the brain is much more flexible that I could ever imagine and the consciousness is thirsty to integrate all those things in order to feel whole, the main obstacle is the ego who likes stable identity and fixed stories about who I am and who I'm not, and which is usually afraid of change. The more I integrate different aspects that I couldn't imagine to integrate, the more it makes me more whole and nuanced human being who is able to look at things with a wider perspective (rather than simply one narrow and limited perspective that I'm biased towards), which is what yellow is (and tier 2 in general).

 


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24 minutes ago, Lila9 said:

Why they can't get through the mental roller of green? Because they are biased against green (if so, why? because it's more feminine? because they are disconnected or in denial about their feminine side?)? Because they naturally prone more to left brain thinking and can't understad the right brain type of thinking of green? What's the real reasons? There has to be at least one reason. Whatever reason it is, it can be worked on if there is a geniune intention. The solution would be identifying the healthy aspects of green and consciously working on integrating them.

Absolutely true. In my previous post I was thinking about the shortcomings of green, but there are aspects of green that are totally essential, without them you will not be a complete human: ethics, the awareness of belonging to a group, humanity. Ethics is absolute. engraved in the mind to iron. inflexible.

orange is absolutely individualistic and deludes itself. without the group he is nothing, he would be dead in a matter of hours. we are a hive entity, and this is not reversible. the ethics of green must be integrated in a real way, it is a fundamental step to continue advancing. the masculine tends to despise green as weak, false, contrary to the implacable nature. mistake. This is what the Nazis did, they wanted to go to turquoise without the green, appealing to the inherent savagery of nature, the law of the strongest. this is not applicable to humans since we are not individual but collective entities

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@ivankiss btw i have noticed that some women in my workplace are very flirty. And I know they have bfs husbands even, they have a ring on it. And it's sometimes SO visible, that something I do, say or express turns them on or they choose to express that they are into me, but it may be not even the case. I a cannot underestand a lot of times why those women give the signals they do. Are they bored? Are they in low quality relationship? Doesn't the attention from their relationship suffice them? I underestand if you are single. I don't want them to feel guilty about it, but when you give me the clues that you are attracted, look at me, talk to me i will just smile and laugh it off, because i don't know what are you hoping for and i am just not taking you seriously. And I love it when they act very flirty and play the boyfriend/husband card in a conversation. You will not tell if they have a partner by their behaviour, really. It's so strange. Do they secretly hate men? Or like having positive validation too much? Or they know something is not fullfilling them (which is truw for all people) andbsome try to substitute with attention? Or they don't know what they want from life and react to whatever impulses they have? I don't know. I can accept how you are, but you are wasting your time flirting with me, i will just switch to a work related topic, because that's why I am there.

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On 2/22/2023 at 1:46 PM, ivankiss said:

I either have a girlfriend, a fuck buddy or I'm all alone. 

@ivankiss¬†By reading your thread, I sense a lot of anger and being too hard on yourself. I wish you all the best on healing.ūüíóūüęāūüߨ

Edited by Juan

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On 2/22/2023 at 3:16 PM, ivankiss said:

@Chives99 I had a good friend who was always complaining to me about being friendzoned by this really hot girl that he was super into. He was always there for her. It was almost as if his whole world was revolving around doing these little favours for her. He would flip his day upside down just to meet her needs and "be there for her". And she kept saying that he's like a brother to her, knowing very damn well that he was in love with her. It was really hard witnessing that sometimes. And guess what happened... I ended up banging that girl. Not my friend.

I felt a little bit guilty, so I told him, of course, and it was all cool. It stung a little bit, I imagine, but we were cool. We spoke a lot about it all, he upgraded his game a little bit, and a few weeks after that he met a girl and took her home. Lost his virginity that night, at age 21. True story.

Also what?! Idk how long is been this but this is something I would consider to change and heal. Imagine if a friend of you do¬†it to you, this is a exercise¬†I bring for myself if you wanna practice compassion and even more if you valued that friendship. This is like ‚Äúhey man, you‚Äôre not hitting hard enough on her so Imma do it.‚ÄĚbut doing it without he knowing.¬†


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@Applegarden8 Yeah, some people flirt full on even when they're in a relationship. I'm not a fan of it. Although I cannot say I've never done it myself... Like, back when I was 20 maybe. I cannot imagine doing it now. It just does not seem or feel right.

59 minutes ago, Juan said:

By reading your thread, I sense a lot of anger and being too hard on yourself. I wish you all the best on healing.ūüíóūüęāūüߨ

You are not wrong. I am angry and I am healing. This is part of the process.

Thanks.

37 minutes ago, Juan said:

Also what?! Idk how long is been this but this is something I would consider to change and heal. Imagine if a friend of you do¬†it to you, this is a exercise¬†I bring for myself if you wanna practice compassion and even more if you valued that friendship. This is like ‚Äúhey man, you‚Äôre not hitting hard enough on her so Imma do it.‚ÄĚbut doing it without he knowing.¬†

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

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2 minutes ago, ivankiss said:

@Applegarden8 Yeah, some people flirt full on even when they're in a relationship. I'm not a fan of it. Although I cannot say I've never done it myself... Like, back when I was 20 maybe. I cannot imagine doing it now. It just does not seem or feel right.

You are not wrong. I am angry and I am healing. This is part of the process.

Thanks.

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

You look pretty sad/low energy in your photo, it's a selfie so I'm guessing that's your energy in a "neutral" state.
Do you have a history of malnutrition/overtraining/insomnia/loneliness/emotional abuse or other stressors?
Sorry if it's out of place.


Prince de Rigel 

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1) Guys get friendzoned because they haven't learned game. Once you learn game you will never be friendzoned.

2) It is possible for a guy to have girls as friends, but only if he has a girlfriend, not as some thirsty Incel.

Edited by Leo Gura

You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Schizophonia I am going through something, yes. Thanks for noticing.

All is well.

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12 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It seems like he was attracted to you but was awkward and couldn't ask you out.

I don't know whether he was attracted to me or not. (Human sexuality is non binary and there are so many shades and variations of it, there may be sexual attraction even between two  hetrosexual male friends or women friends but it doesn't mean they want to act on it. I had a female friend who was sexually attracted to me and I was to her but nothing instead hugging happened because we both didn't feel comfortable or ready with acting on it and we were fine with it.)

I know that he valued the friendship that we had and experienced it as an healing experience and fixation because I didn't judge him and was open. He felt so comfortable with me that he wasn't afraid to cry in front of me. He's 3 years younger than me and said that I remind him of his sister, and I felt like he geniunly admired me as a human and even told his family about me, supported my art and was upset when I underappriciated my art and tried to sell it to people in low prices because I was desparete. I think he found something close and familiar in me as much as I in him. It was a platonic love, which is more than just regular friendship but without acting on sexual or romantic intentions.

Sometimes you vibe with people and you don't have explantion why it so or how come. Sometimes they feel like a spiritual home even though there is no logical reason for this feeling. Not every encounter between males and females has to end up in this overrated ceremony of a casual penatretive sex or in formal romantic relationships. There are multipule possible types of (temporary or not) relationships men and women may have, women and women may have, men and men may have, there is endless and complex list because humans are complex creatures. No relationship between two humans is the same. People (I would refer specifically to men and women) might have a good sexual chemistry but nothing to talk about, people might have things in common but no sexual tention or attraction,

people might agree on some political views and have medicore sex, people might have spicy sex but have toxic dynamic between them (of a narcissist and co dependent i.e).

If I would have friendzoned him I would feel some repressed anger and  frustration in him. Men who feel like they have been friendzoned have this passive agressive aspect in them and a lot of repressed anger and I feel this well in people, no matter how hard they may try to hide it, because I'm empathic and because I've experienced that.

12 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Absolutely true. In my previous post I was thinking about the shortcomings of green, but there are aspects of green that are totally essential, without them you will not be a complete human: ethics, the awareness of belonging to a group, humanity. Ethics is absolute. engraved in the mind to iron. inflexible.

orange is absolutely individualistic and deludes itself. without the group he is nothing, he would be dead in a matter of hours. we are a hive entity, and this is not reversible. the ethics of green must be integrated in a real way, it is a fundamental step to continue advancing. the masculine tends to despise green as weak, false, contrary to the implacable nature. mistake. This is what the Nazis did, they wanted to go to turquoise without the green, appealing to the inherent savagery of nature, the law of the strongest. this is not applicable to humans since we are not individual but collective entities

Beautifully written. Makes me think about how useful and fascinating this model is.

 

13 hours ago, Osaid said:

I've been in one. But I do think it is rare. Sometimes you meet people you don't have a preference and compatibility for romantically/sexually, but at the same time you enjoy hanging out with them normally. It's possible.

I don't know whether it's rare or not but if it's rare it's because people are fixited on very specific types of relationships with very specific goals. And they are not to blame because we are all brainwashed by the culture which dictates us that we should pursue a very specific form of relationships in order to be happy (which is absurd) and that other types and variations of relationships don't count as much and I think that this mentallity is responsible for a lot of common mental health issues today, common dysfunctionalities and toxic phenomenon.

 


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4 hours ago, ivankiss said:

 

It was quite a while a go and I never did anything like that again. It wasn't really nice of me, I agree. But in a way, he set us up. He knew it was going to happen, and he also knew that girl would never consider being with him. Again, not cool, but not such a big backstab either.

@ivankiss I understand, is ok, I had fucked up in the past too. 


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Certainly there are women who exist who want to take advantage. And men who act servant-like will attract women who want to take advantage.

But usually friendzone means when a guy is attracted to a woman but dishonestly positions himself as a friend in order to try to make the woman like him by being super friendly.

And he does this without any actual  interest in being friends.

And because attraction doesn’t work that way, he feels side-lined and taken advantage of when she isn’t attracted to him… because he was thinking doing things for her would lead to her being attracted to him, when it really just made her feel like she has a good friend.

And then she feels upset because she thought she had a genuine friend when he was really just pretending to be her friend to fulfill his own agenda.

This is usually what’s happening when a guy complains about friend-zoning. 

So, I come to this with a degree of skepticism at the lines about women knowing they’re doing this. 

I remember when my middle school best guy friend (who I was very close with)… he asked me out when we were 13 or 14 and I said that I don’t see him that way. And he told me he felt like our several year-long friendship had been a waste of his time. And that was pretty hurtful.


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5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

1) Guys get friendzoned because they haven't learned game. Once you learn game you will never be friendzoned.

2) It is possible for a guy to have girls as friends, but only if he has a girlfriend, not as some thirsty Incel.

This hasn't been my experience. I have no interest in having female friends unless I don't have a girlfriend. If a girl likes you a lot as a friend then she will help you get a girlfriend. It is very useful to have at least one female friend if you don't have a girlfriend.

I had a very close female friend when I was around 20 and a virgin and had no girlfriend. I really enjoyed the time I spent with her. I didn't really want to have sex with her but was still open to it and she made it clear she just wanted to be friends. She would hang out with me and invite her girl friends along. Her friends often seemed to think I was cute. I am pretty sure she talked me up to them when I wasn't around. She moved back to Colombia and I haven't seen her in over 10 years but if we got back together I think we would go back to being close friends as long as it doesn't make our partners jealous. 

I think it worked with me because I find it a super turn off if a girl does not find me really sexy. I really have no interest in woman that I think don't like me in that way. 

The female friend I had, I would prefer to not have sex with her but I would probably do it if I was single and she really needed it because her heart was broken or something but make it clear we will go back to being just friends after she gets better. I am pretty sure that still counts as just being friends. 

Now I have a girlfriend that I have been with for 10 years. I find her sexier than anyone else. I have sex 1-3x a week with her still after 10 years and have no interest in being friends with or having fun with other girls. 

If something happened and I became single again and ready to date again, I probably would try to increase my social circle making several good female friends that we make it clear we don't want to have sex with until I found a girlfriend with their help.

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7 hours ago, Lila9 said:

People (I would refer specifically to men and women) might have a good sexual chemistry but nothing to talk about, people might have things in common but no sexual tention or attraction,

That's not how I operate. Sexual interest leads to general interest, and general interest leads to sexual interest. I can't separate those two, and I don't think I should. Any girl I'm not interested in generally, I'm not interested in her sexually. And any girl I'm not interested in sexually, I'm not interested in her generally. I think that's how all people operate, even women. The only reason people socialize is to gain some value, whatever that might be to them. The only scenario that I can be platonic with a woman is if I have a specific interest in her that is not sexual interest. Like for example, she is a good teacher, and I like her delivery. That's the value I'm getting, so I'm fine with being platonic. In fact, I want to be platonic, and if she would try to suggest something more, I would friendzone her, maybe even ghost her eventually.

Now I'll explain to you briefly why it has nothing to do with being developed Green or whatever. For women, it's easier to be platonic with males, because:

  1. Women benefit from these kinds of relationships a lot more than men do. They get free validation, ego boosts, physical and psychological and in some cases even financial support. Men on the other hand, we get all that from the sex. So basically, no sex, no value, no interest, no friendship.
  2. There are plenty of awkward males who are lonely and desperate (I've been one). Any male who is not awkward nor desperate would not tolerate having a woman in his life that he is interested in sexually but she is not. I don't have people in my life that I'm not interested in. Even my guy friends, they have something that interests me, even though it isn't sexual. It's usually something that I lack and they have, be it in personality or otherwise.
Quote

If I would have friendzoned him I would feel some repressed anger and  frustration in him. Men who feel like they have been friendzoned have this passive agressive aspect in them and a lot of repressed anger and I feel this well in people, no matter how hard they may try to hide it, because I'm empathic and because I've experienced that.

You did not friendzoned him. He friendzoned himself. Seems used to it.

Edited by Gesundheit2

Foolish until proven other-wise ;)

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Picture the friendzone as an island in the ocean of the relationship world. It's where most decent, honest men (and some creeps) are relegated to by women prior to them gaining experience and learning what is good for them. After having their time and their youth wasted getting ran through, cheated on, abused, and manipulated by dazzling wolves. Then when they finally gain wisdom they come back to the island to see it's all but deserted; all the self-respecting men have either starved to death, built a raft to escape, or already been picked up by other women looking to settle before they get too old.

Women live in the moment of emotion whirlwind, and generally don't have the foresight to see what men will become from their character. They only judge them based on how they currently are, and if they get swept up enough in that whirlwind in that frame of time. That's why they will stay in a relationship with a scumbag for years, "I can fix him. I can change him." Hoping for that initial moment again. It's also why they overwhelmingly initiate divorce and end relationships, because they realize they made a mistake.

Unfortunately in our culture it has worked out that men seem to gain value or time, and women lose it. I'm literally experiencing this in my own life in real time. I got rejected and friend-zoned at the rate of a machine gun firing as a young teenager by my equals, now that I'm aging and developing myself all those opportunities are opening up at an exponential rate and they are clawing for me, but I'm no longer interested in them as they are losing their looks and their maturity has stagnated because well, they simply had no incentive to develop themselves and could coast on other traits.

It's like we are on different trains and I'm waving as we pass each other by. Ladies could have got on the right train at the first stop, but they didn't and I don't feel bad for them. You paid for your ticket, no refunds.

 

 


hrhrhtewgfegege

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