I'm slipping into incel mentality

[Max_V]

12 hours ago, Yarco said:

You've had sex before and you received a bj a few months ago. Don't besmirch the good name of incels who are actually struggling. Just because you're lonely and going through a cold spell does not make you an incel or incel mentality. There are actual incels out there who are borderline suicidal about having never hugged or kissed a girl.

who cares about the good name of incels lol, what a stupid thing to say. If you struggle, you struggle

[Max_V]

@Tyler Robinson I think you are coming from a very good place. As a person that has yearned intensely for validation from the opposite sex for so long to now being at a place where I'm learning to let go more and make myself into an awesome person I like, regardless of if other people agree, I really agree with that return towards yourself you're advising
But, I do think we should not minimize desires for sex or relationships, though perhaps the beliefs or biological impulses that underlie them are not in line with what will actually make you the most happy in the end, burning through that and seeing for yourself what's the case, is probably necessary for most people

@Someone here From someone that is in a similar position as yourself and has somewhat found a way out, I would advice you to keep making yourself into an awesome person you like and create a good life for yourself, while also continuing to take it out into the field and keep practicing talking to people. You need to create a self-sustained base for yourself, so that you are happy with your life by yourself as much as possible. But, of course those desires won't go away just by supressing them; you'll see though that by being more happy by yourself, the deep yearning will lessen and you can go at it from a less needy place

All the best, friend. You got this

[Tyler Robinson]

Just now, Max_V said:

I think you are coming from a very good place. As a person that has yearned intensely for validation from the opposite sex for so long to now being at a place where I'm learning to let go more and make myself into an awesome person I like, regardless of if other people agree, I really agree with that return towards yourself advising
But, I do think we should not minimize desires for sex or relationships, though perhaps the beliefs or biological impulses that underlie them are not in line with what will actually make you the most happy in the end, burning through that and seeing for yourself what's probably necessary

That's a pretty balanced take on my take. I actually wanted to put it the way you put it. I just missed out on including the last part of your post. That's exactly what I meant. Not to give into validation needs. Not to minimize the desire for sex to the point of sexual repression/suppression. And to burn through it if necessary as and when it's possible depending on circumstances, yet never basing your entire life and self worth on it. 

Am I right? 

 

[Max_V]

@Tyler Robinson Exactly!

Childhood and other factors get us to believe all kinds of things, for men that means being told that you're a loser if you've never had sex with a woman before. Unless someone is some god trauma worker that can do everything cognitively, which I doubt, it's pretty damn impossible to get that stuff out of your head without experiencing the reality first hand. 
So yes, exactly like we both said in different ways: Become a person you like and create a life you like, while at the same time exploring your desires and seeing for yourself what they lead to. 
 

I discovered that for me my yearning for love from a girl really comes from love from a parent I didn't get. Finding ways to create that love within myself has been a gamechanger

[Ulax]

Yo bud.

Sorry to hear that for you. It sucks that you are seemingly suffering as you are. I sincerely wish the best for you.

Firstly, I'll say whatever you feel is valid. Its there for a reason. It doesn't necessarily mean the thought you have is true. But imo its all serving some purpose.

Secondly, it seems to me that you have some trauma to overcome, and that you feel lesser than because you don't have girls in your life in a sexual way.

I think @Tyler Robinson has some wise words here:

16 hours ago, Tyler Robinson said:

Seriously I don't believe in this. This is like perpetuating the same old tropes that got you roped in the first place. A mentality that is fed to men that their life is nothing without sex, this is so destructive and it seems like social conditioning. Of course everything is social conditioning, you simply cannot deny this. The brain learns to pick on whatever it is fed with. You feel dull without sex because society has ingrained into your mind a lower social value if you can't have a woman, it has damaged men, just like society wants women to believe that all of her worth is in her appearance. This is dangerous gender conditioning. Not too long ago, homosexuality was considered an illness. Give up these constructs and life will be much happier. 

Imo believing you are lesser than because you don't get girls is a product of socialisation. I don't believe you need to be getting girls to feel fulfilled, which is what I think you really want. However, I believe that you think that getting girls will make you fulfilled, which is super understandable if that is the case.

However, I don't think its as straightforward as just giving up these constructs. I think you need to find a practical way of actually becoming fulfilled, otherwise 'giving up these constructs' or 'raising your self esteem' can easily becomes another should.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You'll probs be thinking about pickup/ game. And I see the following as both being part of that.

I'd personally recommend the following two things:

1. Conversational skills training, and basic attraction training

- If you have money, I know the 'ultimate man project' (UMP) product is well regarded (re attraction). Seems healthier than other stuff too.

- Also, I'd go through a v basic social skills guidebook like this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Social-Skills-Guidebook-Shyness-Conversations/dp/0994980701/ref=asc_df_0994980701/?tag=googshopuk-21&linkCode=df0&hvadid=310805565966&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=16570996892812841450&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=1006976&hvtargid=pla-319371346076&psc=1&th=1&psc=1. A decent amount of guys feel reluctant to do this but its helpful to get the v fundamentals down.

2. Modern trauma therapy 

- I.e. IFS therapy, somatic experiencing therapy

I personally think the result you'll get from recommendation two would be dramatically more fulfilling than recommendation one's. But ye its up to you.

I wish you well.

[gettoefl]

seriously what woman wants to be with a guy who just wants pussy? does the woman need to have any body parts above the waist or just below?

this is abject commodification

and you probably are not willing to tell the woman it is just her pussy you are after, and not just that but to hit it and quit it

so this makes you a disingenuous disagreeable maladjusted person that no self respecting woman will want to go near

put yourself in the woman shoes and see this clearly

woman want sex just as much as men do but not when the latter brings to the table what you bring

got to work on yourself so that you walk out of the house knowing you are a god among men and any woman would hit the jackpot to get the merest sniff of you

this is all your world, it is all for you, start to live like it already

 

[Nilsi]

27 minutes ago, KH2 said:

These are all copes, for people who don't have the balls and endurance to do the work necessary for success. Getting laid is NOT like getting rich, ffs. Almost everybody can get laid, if they put enough of right effort. Only a small handfull of people will get rich, regardless of how much work they put in.

You mean to tell me that a guy should rather die alone just because he got rejected a lot? What kind of mentality is that? If you give up on such a banal, easy endevour such as getting laid/finding someone, how can you expect even a tiny sliver of success in other areas in life, that are 100x fucking harder - such as, getting rich, or creating unique value and impact in this world? Impossible, you pretty much set yourself up to be a failure.

Unless you're mentally retarded, or severely physically disabled, or hideously ugly, then you have no excuse.

The fundamental mistake is looking at all these things as separate issues. Obviously getting laid is a valid desire but so are having great friendships, having a great career, learning new cool things, enjoying art, experiencing different cultures, developing yourself spiritually etc. You should focus on becoming the kind of person, that can experience all these things, instead of optimizing for one narrow metric, to the detriment of all these other parts of yourself. You have to think more long-term about these things and focus on actually becoming a more whole human being.

 

Edited August 11, 2022 by Nilsi

[Tyler Robinson]

16 minutes ago, KH2 said:

These are all copes, for people who don't have the balls and endurance to do the work necessary for success. Getting laid is NOT like getting rich, ffs. Almost everybody can get laid, if they put enough of right effort. Only a small handfull of people will get rich, regardless of how much work they put in.

You mean to tell me that a guy should rather die alone just because he got rejected a lot? What kind of mentality is that? If you give up on such a banal, easy endevour such as getting laid/finding someone, how can you expect even a tiny sliver of success in other areas in life, that are 100x fucking harder - such as, getting rich, or creating unique value and impact in this world? Impossible, you pretty much set yourself up to be a failure.

Unless you're mentally retarded, or severely physically disabled, or hideously ugly, then you have no excuse.

I was generally talking about unattractive males. I mean think about it. Who do you think is really going to struggle getting laid? Why will an attractive guy struggle unless he has terrible game and zero charm? A lot of guys who struggle due to obvious reasons that are mentioned will continue to struggle. I don't want to discourage them. But being alone and focusing on a career is better than being suicidal. Build self worth. Dying alone is kinda harsh way of putting it. We all die alone in a way. People get divorced, people break up. Very rarely do you have some company when you are too old, chances are your partner has already by then. So don't worry about dying alone. Enjoy the years you already have instead of worrying about the last days. We don't relationships just because we don't want to die alone, that's incredibly myopic. We have relationships in order to have a fulfilling life as long as we are living. But you need to calculate the cost of this fulfillment.. I wouldn't expect a guy to waste 5 years worth time just hunting for a partner. He also has a career right? I wasn't necessarily talking about being alone when you have the option to date, especially with little effort. I was only attacking the mentality of social validation which keeps men feeling depressed and frustrated and I think that's destructive.. Like I said in the above post, If you can burn your karma then do it, fulfill your desires, my only gripe was that don't make that desire your life. If you can't achieve something in that direction despite trying then focus on other areas of life where you can grow. In short, relationships aren't the be all end all. 

There's more to life. 

 

[Roy]

Cold approach pick-up is the absolute worst option for a virgin for getting results quickly, especially in a conservative place like India. It's like trying to skate up a hill of ice with a backpack of cement on. The learning curve is so steep and the environment is going to be working against you, you are going to get discouraged heavily.

The best and easiest way to get laid (if that is all you want) is going to a college party with some guy friends.

[JonasVE12]

Get a coach and let yourself be guided. You're always writing about your problems but never about your solution which is always been given to you in any question you ask here. Have you applied any of it? You need to shift your orientation to solution based thinking instead of always thinking about what is wrong. I bet you can write books with what is wrong with your life. Notice how thinking about your problems amplifies them. The solution is already present but you don't seem interested in actually getting to the root of it. Work with a coach, seriously. You're too deep into this. You aren't seeing clearly. 

If you're serious with wanting to change, go to a workshop of 'the fearless man'. Search Brian begin and you'll find it. They will get you in front of models and there you will be beautifully guided to become more attractive in the way you are being. Right when you're sanding in front of her. 

These endless topics are becoming tiring to come across. Take action and quit the bs. Your inability to make good decisions and your lack of determination is what is preventing you. Not your lack of theorizing or advice. You either change your life right now and take action right now or you wait another decade until you are 36. Your choice. Or you don't take action at all and die as an incel. You think you can't get good with women because of how you are now. You have all these 'valid' reasons for your lack but they are all bs stories which you need to confront. Come on dude. 

[Someone here]

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread trying to help me .I sincerely appreciate it .however It's too much replies and too much text that I am unable to respond to all of them. All I will say I just came home from the main mall in my city. I approached two girls..one told me "leave Me alone or I will call the security ". The other girl was more open ..even though she also rejected me .but she took my phone number .and I don't know if she will call me or not . So just reporting how its going with me recently. Thanks again . 

[something_else]

53 minutes ago, Someone here said:

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread trying to help me .I sincerely appreciate it .however It's too much replies and too much text that I am unable to respond to all of them. All I will say I just came home from the main mall in my city. I approached two girls..one told me "leave Me alone or I will call the security ". The other girl was more open ..even though she also rejected me .but she took my phone number .and I don't know if she will call me or not . So just reporting how its going with me recently. Thanks again . 

Please stop going to malls in India and doing cold approach. It’s such a bad strategy if you want decent results. It’s very likely to tank your self-esteem as well. Read what @Roy wrote.

What he wrote even applies in liberal countries like the UK and the US, let alone in conservative countries like India.

Either find nightlife party spots like bars and clubs, build up a social circle, or GTFO of India.

Edited August 11, 2022 by something_else

[mr_engineer]

@Someone here Are you from India?! 

I will let you in on a little secret about Indian women - style is everything for them. 

Wear a leather-jacket, nice shoes, a nice belt, maybe a shirt. Try to look as cool and rich as you can. The female attention you'll get will skyrocket! You can insta-hook half the women in the room if you just do this. 

The concept of 'leagues' is huge in India. If you're dressed like an average guy and the hottest woman in the room is dressed in a nice dress, the consensus will agree that 'she's out of your league'. But, when you dress stylishly, you're bridging this 'gap in leagues', so to speak. Then, all of a sudden, your status in the room will go up and the hot woman will see you as 'on her level', so to speak. Then she'll pay attention! It'll almost be relatable to her, because she'll see someone who cares about how you present yourself. 

If you say it's shallow, I'll admit that it is. I'm not a big fan of it and I want to get out of here, quite honestly. But, if you just want to get laid, this is how you do it. 

Edited August 11, 2022 by mr_engineer

[Raze]

 

5 hours ago, Someone here said:

Thanks to everyone who participated in this thread trying to help me .I sincerely appreciate it .however It's too much replies and too much text that I am unable to respond to all of them. All I will say I just came home from the main mall in my city. I approached two girls..one told me "leave Me alone or I will call the security ". The other girl was more open ..even though she also rejected me .but she took my phone number .and I don't know if she will call me or not . So just reporting how its going with me recently. Thanks again . 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VzieYD90tl4

[Leo Gura]

@Someone here The only solution is to learn to socialize.

Stop procrastinating and making excuses. Just do what needs to be done and you will quickly start to feel better.

[Someone here]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Someone here The only solution is to learn to socialize.

Stop procrastinating and making excuses. Just do what needs to be done and you will quickly start to feel better.

I suck at socializing.im shy ,introverted and insecure . 

It’s hard to push myself to go start a conversation with anyone and when I’m in a conversation it’s really awkward and I don’t know what to say.

 like at university, I want to start a conversation with other students but it’s really difficult to actually get myself to and when they come up and talk to me I dont ever know how to talk to them or what to say..

 nowadays we all have one thing in common (unfortunately) .  we all live in this crazy time of pandemic and shit .I find that people generaly like being asked about their feelings during this times.

For instance, I just recently met some people on my college. I asked them about how they feel about online classes and their response was good. I feel like it was a good starting point. 

I need a life coach.  Can you coach me Leo?  Can we talk to each other outside the forum? (of course I will pay you). 

I'm at a very confused period of my life .its like I have a mid life crisis. I need someone to guide me. 

[Devin]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I suck at socializing.im shy ,introverted and insecure . 

It’s hard to push myself to go start a conversation with anyone and when I’m in a conversation it’s really awkward and I don’t know what to say.

 like at university, I want to start a conversation with other students but it’s really difficult to actually get myself to and when they come up and talk to me I dont ever know how to talk to them or what to say..

 nowadays we all have one thing in common (unfortunately) .  we all live in this crazy time of pandemic and shit .I find that people generaly like being asked about their feelings during this times.

For instance, I just recently met some people on my college. I asked them about how they feel about online classes and their response was good. I feel like it was a good starting point. 

I need a life coach.  Can you coach me Leo?  Can we talk to each other outside the forum? (of course I will pay you). 

I'm at a very confused period of my life .its like I have a mid life crisis. I need someone to guide me. 

Then start with greetings instead of conversations, do it a ton, try to be genuine and enjoy it, try to be playful and fun with it, then try that with conversations.

You can greet everyone you walk past and interact with

When you get to conversations tap into the curious part of you, most people have some interesting stuff to share. And stay playful

Edited August 12, 2022 by Devin

[Raze]

12 hours ago, Someone here said:

I suck at socializing.im shy ,introverted and insecure . 

It’s hard to push myself to go start a conversation with anyone and when I’m in a conversation it’s really awkward and I don’t know what to say.

 like at university, I want to start a conversation with other students but it’s really difficult to actually get myself to and when they come up and talk to me I dont ever know how to talk to them or what to say..

 nowadays we all have one thing in common (unfortunately) .  we all live in this crazy time of pandemic and shit .I find that people generaly like being asked about their feelings during this times.

For instance, I just recently met some people on my college. I asked them about how they feel about online classes and their response was good. I feel like it was a good starting point. 

I need a life coach.  Can you coach me Leo?  Can we talk to each other outside the forum? (of course I will pay you). 

I'm at a very confused period of my life .its like I have a mid life crisis. I need someone to guide me. 

Do transformation mastery and high vibe communication by Julien Blanc

And/or do invincible by David Tian and Ace Formula by Adam Lyons

This should resolve your social skills and dating issues 

[RMQualtrough]

On 10/08/2022 at 9:20 PM, Tyler Robinson said:

You got to stop thinking that life revolves around women. That's your biggest problem. 

Invest in yourself. Take up some hobby that motivates you. 

Bring meaning to your life. Stop playing with your life. 

Try to lead a meaningful path. You're living in a shallow world of relationships and giving it way too much credit and importance. 

Your behavior could be the result of too much social media influence. Cut it down. Maybe you're busy comparing yourself to others. 

Life is meaningful with or without relationships. Understand this. 

You're desperate for female validation. Notice this drama in your life is playing out because of your excessive attachment to the idea of a woman or a perfect relationship. 

Remove this attachment and you'll notice a huge difference in perception. Everything will change. 

Say to yourself - "nothing matters." 

Make those words a reality. 

 

So true.

It's funny though, because I don't actually want a relationship etc, so when I actually let myself think "nothing matters", that means I don't even want to go out and talk to women at all. Because like, deep down, I don't really want that. And that scares me.

There have been only a few occasions where I was genuinely turned on by a girl, and not just going through motions to get validation at the end. And I would go out literally every weekend without fail. Many nights out, I don't find ANYONE attractive at all, which just makes me super frustrated.

[RMQualtrough]

11 hours ago, Someone here said:

I suck at socializing.im shy ,introverted and insecure . 

It’s hard to push myself to go start a conversation with anyone and when I’m in a conversation it’s really awkward and I don’t know what to say.

 like at university, I want to start a conversation with other students but it’s really difficult to actually get myself to and when they come up and talk to me I dont ever know how to talk to them or what to say..

 nowadays we all have one thing in common (unfortunately) .  we all live in this crazy time of pandemic and shit .I find that people generaly like being asked about their feelings during this times.

For instance, I just recently met some people on my college. I asked them about how they feel about online classes and their response was good. I feel like it was a good starting point. 

I need a life coach.  Can you coach me Leo?  Can we talk to each other outside the forum? (of course I will pay you). 

I'm at a very confused period of my life .its like I have a mid life crisis. I need someone to guide me. 

I think I can help you... I have very serious Social Anxiety Disorder, I've had that for over a decade... As the post from the other dude that I quoted above, there's a large element of self acceptance involved. As a very socially anxious person, there's something in accepting who I am even when I'm weird AF, rather than feeling shame or judging myself, that is exceptionally helpful.

I used to hyperventilate and "manual walk". I haven't "manual walked" in years. It has always been much worse to try fighting against the disorder, vs building myself a life around it. A lot of people are like "oh man work on yourself, fix yourself bro"; I actually found that approach less effective at improving my quality of life. The fact is that I've realized, and you might be the same, I am VERY introverted and I LIKE to be alone, a LOT. I don't actually WANT to be close to other people, I literally do not want it.

Another thing that was pointed out to me, you might just be different... You definitely are "different" to be on a forum, a spiritual forum at that, with a cartoon avatar, etc. And because of this, you don't connect with other people. People might not be connecting with you because you simply have NOTHING in common... And I definitely noticed that in myself lately too. Fact is I'm majorly geeky but too un-geeky for actual geeks, and most people fit into pretty narrow categories.