mr_engineer

@LordFall Buddy, you have a very positive mindset, good for you. But, you're still not answering the question. Do you agree with those points that they're making? The actual words that they're saying? Are those generalizations true, according to you. If they're true for all men, does that include you?

@LordFall No, about the bullshit they say about men. Do you agree with those points? About the cold-approach thing - I'll talk about it when I want to. Right now, its irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

@LordFall So, you agree with what they're saying? You're taking their side?

@LordFall Okay. Let's say someone is hitting you with a lead pipe. As you're in pain, you ask them 'why are you hitting me?' They will tell you why, their reasons may be legitimate or not. Even if you think their reasons are legitimate, does this solve the problem that they're hitting you with a lead pipe?

Now I think you're the one being the 'fruitcake'. I'm sure @Crazy_ball would agree.

@Crazy_ball I second this. Mods, we want warning-points for @something_else for personally attacking me.

Asking a man to read feminist literature is like asking a Jew to read Mein Kampf. I don't really care about 'above or below'. I care about the manifestation of feminism in present-day, and I'm really not liking what I see. The rhetoric is incredibly hateful and anti-male. There is a characterization of men as 'oppressors' only, there is zero appreciation of men in history or in present-day. If you're going to say anything positive about masculinity and 'what it is capable of', you're the exception as a feminist. Normal, present-day feminists see masculinity as fundamentally oppressive, and that's it. It is just gender-tribalism, like the incel and redpill-ideologies.

Of course, you have to say that, you have to define what 'truth' is to suit yourself. I'm not equating the ideologies, I'm asking you why the same criticisms don't apply. Yeah, yeah, only men are 'toxic and harmful'. That's the ideology, right? Feminism exists because academia and mainstream psychology has given it way too much credibility. I don't want to read a whole bunch of literature bashing on men and talking about how men get off on oppressing women, thanks.

@trenton No, they don't do mass-shootings. Instead, they use their soft-power to destroy the reputation of their enemies (aka, men) by making false-allegations. We can see this clearly in the reaction to the 'Not all men' hashtag, how badly they want to prove that it is, in fact, all men.

I think the same can be said about the manosphere ideologies.

The criticisms of incel-ideology and redpill-ideology are that 'they make men's understanding of women narrow, biased and self-serving', right? That is a valid criticism. My question is - why doesn't the same criticism apply to feminist ideology? Here's what I've heard feminists say: Men are trash. Men are the reason that equality hasn't been achieved Men aren't loyal Men as a class are completely privileged Men fear strong women All men cheat (This one is my personal favorite) Men are emotionally underdeveloped Now, tell me - how does this not make women's understanding of men narrow, biased and self-serving?

@Lila9 'Our problems are real problems, your problems are not real problems'. Look, you don't need to go around invalidating other people's lived experiences. Just talk about your experiences, just talk about who hurt you.

@Natasha Tori Maru Next time, please make a couple of these instances public so that we know that we're safe here.

And what about the negativity against men? What's being done about that? Take yourselves, for example. I have never seen you mods police anyone for spreading negativity against men. When someone spreads negativity against men, I've never seen them being asked who hurt them, or what is it that they're generalizing to all men. (In fact, when I decided to take the initiative on this, I got warned for it lol) This means, that the general sentiment towards men is not positive, right? Whenever someone makes blanket negative statements about men, that's man-hate. Whether it's about 'toxic masculinity' or about how 'all men are complicit in the patriarchy' or anything else, it's very important that we ask them to not generalize. Otherwise, we're complicit in the spreading of man-hate. What's happening, though, is very different. When negativity against men gets spread in the MeToo movement and there's a counter-movement to that saying 'not all men', feminists hate it! They do not want to say that it's not all men.

Ah, the 'nothing is so simple' argument. Yes, individuals are complicated. But, it is not that hard to notice patterns in how collectives behave! The point of this argument is to create an image of 'complication', that 'we're all very complicated, don't try to make sense of what we're doing, don't scrutinize what we're doing'. I don't know if you think we're dumb enough to not see it, or whether you are. And, as far as the 'social media' argument goes, whatever happens on social media has real-life consequences. Real people get cancelled because of what happens on social media. I have never seen this lecture of 'get off social media, it could be biasing your thinking' be given to a feminist. Never. Interesting, isn't it?!