Could you enjoy a Hitler painting?

[Julian gabriel]

@outlandish I agree it is misaligned for most, but getting in a fight with someone doesn't mean you don't love them. I understand how it could be a clue of something being overlooked though.

[outlandish]

@Julian gabriel Yes I agree with you as well, you can definitely get in a fight with someone you love. Actually it's the person you're most likely to fight with! And that's where the work is.. not in finding love for Hitler.

[Hap E-Boi]

15 hours ago, Dany Balan said:

I could i say i love the Fuhrer! In 1940 the Soviets wanted to annex an even bigger part of Romania than they already did until then,but because the territories they wanted to annex belonged pre WW1 to the Habsburg Empire he refused to let the Soviets take it. So because of Hitler my grandparents weren't deported to Siberia and starved there to death,as happened to the Romanians that lived in the territories that were agreed by Germany and the Soviets in the Molotov Ribentrop pact. I could say that i own my existence to Hitler.

You would already exist without Hitler. But you would be watching through other lenses (egos). This very ego writing this here wouldn't have been here as well, but is that bad? I still would exist as all ego exist on the same field of consciousness, one cannot not exist. But even this is probably an illusion as things may just be the way they are. You are here, now as there is nowhere else to be. There is no “what if” other than an delusion rooted in ego.

Edited May 11, 2021 by Hap E-Boi

[Tetcher]

His art seems pretty good, I wonder why he was rejected, maybe he wasn't all wrong.

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, outlandish said:

And that's where the work is.. not in finding love for Hitler.

Isn't it funny how the people you love are harder to love than Hitler.

God is a joker

[Hap E-Boi]

28 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Isn't it funny how the people you love are harder to love than Hitler.

God is a joker

Yes it often can be, especially if you tend to be more open minded than agreeable.

I think it's an opportunity to learn though.

What helps for me to equalize the love, are guided compassion meditations such as this one: (I'm aware this one is rooted in stage blue, but nothing wrong with that as it works great for me.)

 

Edited May 11, 2021 by Hap E-Boi

[Preety_India]

14 hours ago, outlandish said:

Spending energy on "loving" or enjoying Hitler is misaligned for 99% of us. Make sure you love your parents, that annoying guy at the office, your ex, the rival city's sports team, before you spend energy trying to appreciate a monster who sent 6 million jews to the industrial death facilities.

If you claim you can love Hitler, but can still get in a fight with your own brother, that's a clue that something might be wrong.

His paintings are way better than anything I could do, but if they were in a gallery or museum, without his name attached, they'd be unremarkable and quickly forgotten.

This was the most beautiful response.

Indeed, charity should begin at home.

Sometimes I wonder if people make deliberate claims of loving Hitler out of ego reasons. 

Just to show that they are more compassionate than your regular empathetic folks.

I, for never, resonated with such sentiment. To me, love thy neighbor as thyself, and then maybe love Hitler.

There are so many innocent starved and hungry , but you want to feed the one that eats 100 chickens a day, that doesn't make sense? Maybe lay off such extraordinary love for a while and come down to ordinary love, the earth will be grateful for your wisdom.

 

[RareGodzilla]

16 hours ago, Edan said:

I have a fun story regarding Hitler.

I actually have in my house some stuff that belonged to him.

So my grand grandfather was a member of the force that broke into the Hitler's bunker at the end of the war. He decided to take as souvenirs: 

An empty letters sheet with the Nazzi logo on it, from Hitler's desk,

a piece of Hitler's broken bathtub,

and a plate of his from the kitchen with the writing: "The Fuhrer" on it.

Those items have passed in heritage through my family.

Just thought it's an interesting story to share.

My parents had thought about selling this but didn't do so due to ethical concerns (we're jews from Israel)

But it might be worth a couple grants who knows

Wow these are some pretty amazing historic artefacts you got there... Especially considering the personal story attached to it. Take good care of it, please consider taking it to some museum. I have no doubt that it would be important to your local Jewish community. 

[Tim R]

11 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Sometimes I wonder if people make deliberate claims of loving Hitler out of ego reasons. 

Just to show that they are more compassionate than your regular empathetic folks.

100%

And the funny thing is, that this display of alleged love only happens out of a feeling of actually perceiving Hitler as an evil person. Which is the moral source for this "holier than thou" attitude. 

So in order to make this "holier-than-thou-" thing work, you must judge Hitler in the first place. Because only then you can pretend to love him in spite of perceiving him as a sinner, in order to get a big spiritual ego kick. Which you of course would never ever admit.

"loving the sinner" - but how can you love someone if you perceive him as a sinner? it's a Koan.

I don't love Hitler. But I don't hate him either. (and I won't mention the fact that Hitler doesn't actually exist )

 

In our culture we're supposed to ardently hate Hitler as the incarnation of metaphysical evil. So people who really want to behave subversively and pretend that they're oh so holy say they can love Hitler.

But this is what is meant by "thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Go ahead, try to "love" something or someone that/who you simply don't love.

"Thou shalt hate Hitler with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

Now that's a Koan for you. Can you? Why not try to do that? Because it isn't spiritual? Because you think you're not supposed to hate people? Because you think you're supposed to love Hitler? 

You're fooling yourself?

[Leo Gura]

It is not a matter of loving Hitler in the way you might love your children. It's a metaphysical matter of realizing that Hitler is part of Universal Love.

In other words, don't make a shadow of anything.

[Preety_India]

5 minutes ago, Tim R said:

100%

And the funny thing is, that this display of alleged love only happens out of a feeling of actually perceiving Hitler as an evil person. Which is the moral source for this "holier than thou" attitude. 

So in order to make this "holier-than-thou-" thing work, you must judge Hitler in the first place. Because only then you can pretend to love him in spite of perceiving him as a sinner, in order to get a big spiritual ego kick. Which you of course would never ever admit.

"loving the sinner" - but how can you love someone if you perceive him as a sinner? it's a Koan.

I don't love Hitler. But I don't hate him either. (and I won't mention the fact that Hitler doesn't actually exist )

 

In our culture we're supposed to ardently hate Hitler as the incarnation of metaphysical evil. So people who really want to behave subversively and pretend that they're oh so holy say they can love Hitler.

But this is what is meant by "thou shalt love the lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might." Go ahead, try to "love" something or someone that/who you simply don't love.

"Thou shalt hate Hitler with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might."

Now that's a Koan for you. Can you? Why not try to do that? Because it isn't spiritual? Because you think you're not supposed to hate people? Because you think you're supposed to love Hitler? 

You're fooling yourself?

Exactly. 

It's sort of a moral hypocrisy.

Why would you love Hitler in the first place if you didn't judge him as evil?

Doesn't love actually mean that it is without judgement?

So by that logic, you're loving Hitler, not out of non-judgement, but out of judgement, why else would there exist a need to love to begin with?

So your love (not your) of Hitler is solely based on your perception of Hitler as a sinner and you, the savior of sinners. 

Now there lies the hypocrisy. The love never came from a true place.

You wouldn't need to keep stressing that you love Hitler, if it was ordinary love.

In this sense your capability to love is a mere conquest.

But if you are capable of such great compassion , then what stops you from loving ordinary people the same way, if you could get  rid of Barriers to love Hitler, what made you raise barriers to love someone ordinary.

 

[Preety_India]

@Tim R in some ways loving Hitler could also be an over compensation for not loving the ones that need your love?

 

[BipolarGrowth]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not a matter of loving Hitler in the way you might love your children. It's a metaphysical matter of realizing that Hitler is part of Universal Love.

In other words, don't make a shadow of anything.

This. The “fabric” of Existence is Absolute Love. You’re in a padded pit of foam balls convinced wholeheartedly that the foam balls are going to kill you. This is the problem with fear. It constrains the Absolute Self for the sake of the relative self. 

[Tim R]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not a matter of loving Hitler in the way you might love your children. It's a metaphysical matter of realizing that Hitler is part of Universal Love.

In other words, don't make a shadow of anything.

Of course, but how many people have actually realized this? And not only realized, but who actually embody this love? Rare, rare, rare, rare... 

It's one thing to feel intense universal love for the most "horrendous" crimes in existence of humankind when one is on psychedelics, it's a whole other ballgame to retain it after the trip. 

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Tim R said:

it's a whole other ballgame to retain it after the trip

You don't need to retain it. Feelings come and go. Just the knowingness is enough. You don't need to be in a constant love high.

[WaveInTheOcean]

22 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It is not a matter of loving Hitler in the way you might love your children. It's a metaphysical matter of realizing that Hitler is part of Universal Love.

In other words, don't make a shadow of anything.

Damn you're dropping delicate soaking lines of wisdom right and left today ????????

[Tim R]

26 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

So by that logic, you're loving Hitler, not out of non-judgement, but out of judgement, why else would there exist a need to love to begin with?

Exactly. 

23 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

in some ways loving Hitler could also be an over compensation for not loving the ones that need your love?

@Preety_India Hmm never thought about that.

In order to compensate, one must feel the need to compensate, one must feel lacking. Which in the case of "loving people who need your love" (like family/friend/neighbors) will probably arise out of a sense of guilt. "You must love your family", this sort of thing. And once again we're at "thou shalt love the lord thy god".

Or, it's compensation in form of the spiritual ego kick (which is probably what you meant?). Which would make up for the felt "unspirituality" and one's judgement of oneself if one doesn't love Hitler. 

17 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need to retain it. Feelings come and go. Just the knowingness is enough. You don't need to be in a constant love high.

True, but everything after that is just talk. Yes, the universal love is valid in the moment, but if after that one simply falls back into toxic, destructive  and hateful behavior, one hasn't really understood. Because nothing is understood unless you remember - aka embody. 

Edit: I think I'm wrong concerning understanding and embodiment. Understanding isn't based on remembering. Long-term embodiment however, is. I think. Gotta contemplate this a little more.

Help pls??

Edited May 11, 2021 by Tim R

[SolarWarden]

16 hours ago, outlandish said:

Spending energy on "loving" or enjoying Hitler is misaligned for 99% of us. Make sure you love your parents, that annoying guy at the office, your ex, the rival city's sports team, before you spend energy trying to appreciate a monster who sent 6 million jews to the industrial death facilities.

If you claim you can love Hitler, but can still get in a fight with your own brother, that's a clue that something might be wrong.

His paintings are way better than anything I could do, but if they were in a gallery or museum, without his name attached, they'd be unremarkable and quickly forgotten.

Nice, we need to care and love our neighbour instead of feeling special that we occupy our time to love Hitler.

Loving our neighbour is harder than to love a mental image of a historic person with negative status.

[Tetcher]

What's funny are people that can love Hitler but not Trump.

[Leo Gura]

It's easier to love a devil when he's dead.