Sam Harris more enlightened than Jim Newman

[Chris365]

https://samharris.org/subscriber-extras/waking-up-jim-newman/

Jim Newman apparently still has anger arising caused by bad drivers, Sam can abide in non-duality 'when he remembers' and sees anger as impossible then.

1h40min of pure delight 

This chat was the most useful to get Jim Newman's non-message, compared to any other talks or interviews I've seen of Jim.

Edited February 6, 2021 by Chris365

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, Chris365 said:

Jim Newman apparently still has anger arising caused by bad drivers, Sam can abide in non-duality 'when he remembers' and sees anger as impossible then.

Putting conditions on what can't have conditions is tricky. Anyone on earth can say that when they are happy it's impossible to be angry.

It's at the same time way more subtle and way more radical than that. We filter what people say based on what we expect or desire to get from enlightenment, but there's no one to get anything from anything. 

I REALLY want to watch this but also really don't want to subscribe. So torn. 

[Seeker531]

It's clearly just the opposite. I just listened half of it and as in Harris' other talks, he can't stop trying to use his concepts and doesn't get what Jim is pointing to. There is a huge difference in depth of understanding which Sam obviously lacks. 

[Leo Gura]

Lolz

[Forestluv]

5 hours ago, Chris365 said:

Jim Newman apparently still has anger arising caused by bad drivers, Sam can abide in non-duality 'when he remembers' and sees anger as impossible then.

Are you defining enlightenment as the the absence of certain emotions in a mind-body? 

And if nonduality is “not two”, how can there be a difference between anger (1) and peaceful (2’)? That would be two separate things. 

[Leo Gura]

All you gotta do is ask Sam, "What is God?" or "What is Truth?" or "What is love?" and watch him flail like a drowning child.

[zeroISinfinity]

16 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

All you gotta do is ask Sam, "What is God?" or "What is Truth?" and watch him flail like a drowning child.

Asking myself very same question. 

Hahahaha

[Moksha]

Sam is a smart guy, but if I could gift him nothing, it would be exactly that. ? No judgment, as a scientist I have been there, and am never fool enough to "think" I couldn't go there again.

[Preety_India]

Finally the elephant pic. Yay. That's Sam Harris riding an elephant or it seems. 

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Leo Gura What would you advise Sam to do? I'm not sure he is willing to "play russian roulette with psychedelics" anymore, and I remember he talked about fearing to "lose his grip to reality", which might mean to fight a change in perception.

I doubt that even if he had a god-awakening he wouldn't use the word "god", because that would reinforce "blue" in their beliefs, and he built his career in discrediting old-school religion.

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

I doubt that even if he had a god-awakening he wouldn't use the word "god", because that would reinforce "blue" in their beliefs, and he built his career in discrediting old-school religion.

If he had an actual God awakening he would understand the difference between the word God in the context of post rational vs pre-rational and would need to articulate this to his students.

[Endangered-EGO]

@Inliytened1 Do you think that most pre-rational religious people, wouldn't consider themselves as trans-rational or post-rational. There is no doubt, that if I go tell a catholic priest about my awakenings, he would call say that it is jesus and the holy spirit manifesting itself to me thanks to god's grace etc. Lucky me, I found Jesus without knowing it.

[Inliytened1]

1 minute ago, Endangered-EGO said:

There is no doubt, that if I go tell a catholic priest about my awakenings, he would call say that it is jesus and the holy spirit manifesting itself to me thanks to god's grace etc. 

Correct - that is most likely going to be the case because they are so firmly locked into that ideology from years of indoctrination.   And why they will most likely never progress beyond stage Blue.

[Endangered-EGO]

@Inliytened1 It's tricky, Osho put it perfectly, there is no God (noun) there is only godliness (adjective).

From the awakenings I had into the nothingness, God didn't create anything, god is creation/existence.

At least they are right about God not being able to be conceptualised or illustrated.

Now thell them that jesus wasn't the (only) son of god and that this forum is full of prophets.

I wonder if people who learn about God post-awakening would recognize their awakenings as (christian/muslim/jewish) God.

[Leo Gura]

10 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Leo Gura What would you advise Sam to do? I'm not sure he is willing to "play russian roulette with psychedelics" anymore, and I remember he talked about fearing to "lose his grip to reality", which might mean to fight a change in perception.

I doubt that even if he had a god-awakening he wouldn't use the word "god", because that would reinforce "blue" in their beliefs, and he built his career in discrediting old-school religion.

I would advise him to deeply contemplate my series on Deconstructing The Myth of Science.

Will he do it? I won't hold my breath. His whole grift is to peddle rationalism.

You can't get a man to understand a thing when his job requires him not to understand it.

[fridjonk]

9 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

I would advise him to deeply contemplate my series on Deconstructing The Myth of Science.

Will he do it? I won't hold my breath. His whole grift is to peddle rationalism.

You can't get a man to understand a thing when his job requires him not to understand it.

Well, he did do a 5g mushroom trip last year. Perhaps he will push it further, but I doubt it. He's still denying what he was shown on that trip. It would take years of tripping for him to fully break out of his logical mind-frame. And of course, he would need to publicly come out and say he was wrong in every way, which he will never do. And with a fanbase of his size, no way. 

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, fridjonk said:

Well, he did do a 5g mushroom trip last year. Perhaps he will push it further, but I doubt it. He's still denying what he was shown on that trip. It would take years of tripping for him to fully break out of his logical mind-frame. And of course, he would need to publicly come out and say he was wrong in every way, which he will never do. And with a fanbase of his size, no way. 

Doing mushrooms is pointless if one isn't willing to contemplate and question everything. Like a Christian he will just interpret the mushroom experience along his existing paradigmatic biases.

Like I said, he's paradigm locked. It's that simple. Can he eacape it? Yes. Will he? I doubt it. He is not interested in that.

[ConsciousOwl10]

@Inliytened1  lol yeah, i forgot. He has to be responsible for his students and lead them on the right path 

Every time he introduces a guest he always has to talk about all of their credentials like their phd and college degrees so that his listeners will even open their ears and listen to them speak  Then again, itäs a paid subscription program that's meant for rationalists. He tends to judges how valuable the conversation is by how much that person validates or repeats what he already believes, yet calls himself non dogmatic. Alas, the torchbearers go on to proclaim the virtues of open discussion and free discourse.  It angers me included because nowadays any intellectual can basically just start do a few retreats and write a few books and people will listen to basically anything they say and go along with them as the voice of reason. Just pure marketing brand name bullshit. But I guess that's just current society at this moment. No one really cares about truth in the end. It's a more systematic problem in society but doesn't really affect us I suppose. People listen to instagram models for answers to their problems too 

Edited February 8, 2021 by ConsciousOwl10

[WonderSeeker]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Doing mushrooms is pointless if one isn't willing to contemplate and question everything.

Doing Neti Neti on mushrooms is effective. 

[Carl-Richard]

On 6.2.2021 at 4:17 PM, Chris365 said:

Jim Newman apparently still has anger arising caused by bad drivers, Sam can abide in non-duality 'when he remembers' and sees anger as impossible then.

Sam Harris has this band-aid relationship to awareness. When the situation arises, he reaches for it. It's essentially the equivalent of the fad mindfulness approach to meditation ("get rid of anxiety, stress and depression"). It's barely the very first stage of spiritual development (even calling it that is a stretch).