peqkno

Girls... who have you felt understands you the best?

190 posts in this topic

3 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Why should a woman care about understanding pickup when those who wish to pick her up don't care about her needs?

Right.

And why should a man care about understanding women when women don't care about his needs?

And why should anyone care about understanding anyone else when it doesn't directly serve their needs?

Bottom line: why should anyone be selfless when the best thing is to be selfish?

TA-DA! The human condition ;)


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Just now, Leo Gura said:

Bottom line: why should anyone be selfless when the best thing is to be selfish?

Bottomline : why should I be selfless when you're being selfish?

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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5 minutes ago, Moon said:

@Leo Gura It's impossible for you to fully understand women then and the struggles they go through? 

Yes, in a sense. I don't claim to fully understand women. There's much I don't understand so I try to be curious about your POV.

For example, when I trip on psychedelics I will actually try to feel what it's like to be a woman.

But also, I am biased, and sometimes I just don't give a fuck about the woman's agenda when I got my own to worry about. After all, no one will concern themselves with meeting my needs other than myself. Which is why selfishness exists. Selfishness is not some evil force. Selfishness is absolutely necessary for selflessness. In fact, selfishness is identical to selflessness in the absolute sense.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

And why should a man care about understanding women when women don't care about his needs?

Is a woman approaching a man or is a man approaching a woman? Which? 

That should decide it. 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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5 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Right.

And why should a man care about understanding women when women don't care about his needs?

And why should anyone care about understanding anyone else when it doesn't directly serve their needs?

Bottom line: why should anyone be selfless when the best thing is to be selfish?

TA-DA! The human condition ;)

High-five! B|

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5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Is a woman approaching a man or is a man approaching a woman? Which? 

That should decide it. 

No, that draws the boundary of concern far too narrowly.

Women don't even understand the burden and challenge of having to approach. It's a huge burden that women take completely for granted. I wish I never had to approach. You think guys like to approach??? I would rather get kicked in the dick.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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9 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

Bottomline : why should I be selfless when you're being selfish?

 

only a naive person

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that draws the boundary of concern far too narrowly.

Women don't even understand the burden and challenge of having to approach. It's a huge burden that women take completely for granted.

Men don't even understand the challenge of being a woman. They don't understand the burden and challenge of being a woman and having to deal with men approaching you and involving in a relationship with them. It's a huge burden that men take completely for granted. 

If approaching a great challenge for men, so is dealing with approaches and relationships a great challenge for women. 

Maybe try being a woman on your psychedelic trips and you will see the pain of a woman as well. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

No, that draws the boundary of concern far too narrowly.

Women don't even understand the burden and challenge of having to approach. It's a huge burden that women take completely for granted. I wish I never had to approach. You think guys like to approach??? I would rather get kicked in the dick.

It doesnt get easier even after so many years of practice?


"It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain a thought without accepting it."

 

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7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

 

And why should a man care about understanding women when women don't care about his needs?

And why should anyone care about understanding anyone else when it doesn't directly serve their needs?

Bottom line: why should anyone be selfless when the best thing is to be selfish?

This is the equivalent of asking why Love is better than being ego driven.


“If you are irritated by every rub, how will you be polished?” - Rumi.

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13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

For example, when I trip on psychedelics I will actually try to feel what it's like to be a woman.

Yeah, I have tried that too and partially succeeded, though I'm not sure :P.  In the state of pure being masculine energy starts to fade and there is an opportunity to imagine feminine energy and feminine self image. In those moments I have imagined myself having vaginal energy i.e. sense of  internal genitalia.

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@Leo Gura

"No, because you in fact have no experience attracting and seducing women. So you don't know what that takes, nor do you care to know."

I'm bisexual. So there. :D

"No. I'm not a dating coach and I don't earn any money coaching people on pickup stuff. But I can tell you from lots of personal experience that a woman will never give a guy good advice for how to attract and sleep with women. Because attract is deeply counter-intuitive and women themselves are deeply in denial and unconscious of what attracts them and what makes them open their legs.

Women love to tell themselves all sorts of fantasies about what they are attracted to, when in fact they are attracted to the opposite. They will say stuff like, "Just be yourself. Just be a nice guy." and then they end up sleeping with the biggest asshole in the room."

I know that you actually believe what you're saying. I don't think you're trying to get one over on people. I know you're not a dating coach.

I'm just saying that you're taking information that you've learned from pick-up as true... when it was really a marketing technique for the purpose of getting your money. 

And I would never give the advice to "just be a nice guy" towards anyone because nice is so generic.

In order to attract a woman in the 25% of women who respond to pick-up, being a cocky asshole is a pretty good strategy if what you're interested in is getting laid. But understand that there are reasons that aren't too pretty as to why this portion of women are attracted to assholes. 

But if you're looking for a woman who really matches you, you must be yourself unapologetically. 

I can tell you how every single one of my attractions has risen up for me. It always takes the same path. About every year and a half, I'll know a man who I see on a consistent basis that I have a platonic relationship to. And after about 3 months of being around him, I will start to think about him a bit.. usually unexpectedly. And then, it will feel good to think about him. And the attraction goes from there.

I understand that there can be no systematic thing that a man can do here. There is no strategy for warm approach.

If he wants quick results and wants to get laid fast, he should do pick-up. But pick-up is not analogous to the way I get attracted to men. And I'd wager that that's true for a lot of women. 

That's why I'm stressing to you that these pick-up insights are not universal... even though they will work for their purposes. You will get laid if you do them. And if that's all you're looking for, great. But if you are looking for more, these pick-up strategies and all the "insights" they give about women can actually get in the way of forming deeper bonds with a woman.

Just because a thing works on all women does not mean you will sleep with every woman. Not even close.

Your 25% number is just a something you invented to make yourself feel good. Women love to believe, "That pickup stuff will never work on me. I'm too smart for that." Except you're not too smart for it because you are attracted to certain things and if a guy meets that criteria you will be attracted to him regardless of how he got there. You don't care about how he got there. You don't know how he got there. All you see is the end result.

It's not about being too smart for that. I just know how I become genuinely attracted to guys, and it isn't that way.

I've had a promiscuous phase in my life. At that time, I was receptive to pick-up because I was looking for sex.

But starting on a sexual note is basically a guaranteer that I won't form a deeper connection to someone. I personally need months of platonic interaction first and the tension that builds up beforehand.

But I say 25% because I think it is an accurate number. 

And in the guys I've been attracted to, it isn't because he possessed some laundry list of qualities that are universally appealing. It's always intuitive and has to do with his personality and energy and if I sense a match with mine. 

Yes, of course. But I'm not marketing to anyone here.

Never accused you of marketing... just for being tricked by marketing.

Yeah, and every guy you ever slept with met the standard criteria and principles of pickup, regardless of whatever he learned pickup or not.

It depends on what kind of criteria you mean. 

When I have been with a guy in a serious way, it was only once because he initiated something sexual with me. And that one didn't really get that deep. I think the main reason why is because it didn't have that organic growth process to it where things begin platonic first.

In my other serious relationships, I had one begin organically just by spending a lot of time together over the course of months.

And I had two where I could tell the guy liked me and told him how I felt about him. (Like I said, I like reserved men who don't wear their sexuality on their sleeves). And both of these were after spending months of quality time with these guys.

With my casual sexual liaisons, most of those were because I was dealing with a lot of issues and had weak boundaries. Though I did initiate a couple of those. 

But was not very hard to get me into bed back then. My life was really falling apart and I was all alone in the world and on the brink of eviction. But it didn't have much to do with the guys who were approaching or the techniques they were using. It could have been any guy that at least of average looks and not totally creepy/scary. I would basically talk myself into "hanging out" with them because I was lonely and I would rationalize that I'd just say no. 

It does not matter matter what you've seen before -- a high-value guy is a high-value guy. You're assuming the guy is faking his value, but I'm talking about a guy who is not faking his value.

This is like a guy saying, "Well, I've seen big tits before, so big tits won't work on me again." They work every time. And they even work when they are fake or some push-up bra.

You see, I can recognize a high value guy and not be attracted to him. I will admire him, for sure. But it is no guaranteer of attraction.

But a person's virtues will be an extra turn-on if I do happen to develop an attraction to them.

And I'm certainly more likely to be attracted to a man who has cultivated virtues that are analogous to the virtues that I've cultivated in myself.

But it isn't analogous to the way a man gets attracted to tits. It's not an interchangeable attraction. A man will be attracted to nice tits on any woman. But for me (and I'd wager for most women), the virtues that are attractive to me in one man will not translate to attraction to other men that possess those qualities.

And that's because male sexuality is different from female sexuality. Male sexuality is more interchangeable while female sexuality is very person-centered and particular. 

This is another reason why pick-up is taught the way that it is. It takes female sexuality and puts it in the interchangeable framework of male sexuality so that men can understand it and relate to it better. But therein lies the distortion.

No. The conversion rate is low because all dating is a numbers game. You play this numbers game your entire life. When you go on Tinder, there is your numbers game.

Yes, of course I personally won't appeal to every woman. In fact, this is a common mistake newbie PUAs make -- trying to appeal to every woman. A guy will be much more successful with women if he aims for 33% of women hating him, 33% of women being indifferent to him, and 33% of women loving him. This polarization is key. Just like in business you must appeal to a specific audience, not everyone under the sun.

Notice that you are the one who is setting up this 100% conversion rate standard. But that's a strawman. Nowhere near this standard needs to be met.

Speaking of strawmen, that's not what I'm saying. I know that there will never be a 100% conversion rate. I know conversion rates will be 1-2%, most likely. But you have spoken about approaching like 400 women before you get 1 taker. That's a very low conversion rate.

It's the same idea as in business... cold approach isn't going to work most women in the same way cold marketing won't work on most people. Most women require warming up in the same way that most people require some warming up before you sell to them.

But what I am saying is that you're assuming that these techniques will appeal to EVERY woman. But in reality, there is a small but sizable niche within the populace of women that will go for cold approach/pick-up. And then, within that niche... then you get your 1-2% conversion rate. 

All I'm saying is that you're unaware of that intermediary niche of 25%-ish of women who will be open to cold approach.


Click here to watch my Free 60-Minute Shadow Integration Masterclass!

The masterclass includes all the foundational information you need for beginning a Shadow Work practice. DM me if you have any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

 

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2 minutes ago, Emerald said:

you must be yourself unapologetically.

Exactly what pickup teaches, exactly what makes guys assholes.

This is all much more complex than people think.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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6 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But you have spoken about approaching like 400 women before you get 1 taker. That's a very low conversion rate.

That's because I sucked and was training to overcome serious social anxiety and inexperience, and pickup has a very steep initial learning curve. My conversion rate today would be much higher.

But see, you don't care about such things as learning curves.

Also, don't forget, most hot girls have boyfriends. Hard to have a high conversion rate when you are going for hot girls and many of them are taken because they get approached all the time and have so many options.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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@Leo Gura Of course there are learning curves in all things.

But I feel like you're purposefully misunderstanding my point. And that's that pick-up doesn't work on everyone.

And for those it does work on for the purposes of getting laid, it doesn't usually make for a deep bonding experience... because these pick-up ideas tend to overwrite the actuality of the female experience of deep sexual bonding in favor of a system that is easier to learn and understand.

It does the dis-service of making men feel like they have demystified the female sexual experience by making it more workable for their sexual agenda... while getting them into a perspective that feels like demystification, when in reality it's just a more workable distortion. 

 


Click here to watch my Free 60-Minute Shadow Integration Masterclass!

The masterclass includes all the foundational information you need for beginning a Shadow Work practice. DM me if you have any questions and I'll get back to you as soon as possible.

 

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8 minutes ago, Emerald said:

@Leo Gura

....my point. And that's that pick-up doesn't work on everyone.

How would you know that?

That's like saying the gym doesn't work for everyone.

Quote

And for those it does work on for the purposes of getting laid, it doesn't usually make for a deep bonding experience... because these pick-up ideas tend to overwrite the actuality of the female experience of deep sexual bonding in favor of a system that is easier to learn and understand.

We'll just have to agree to disagree.

I have used pickup skills to create deep bonding experiences. Of course not everything is a deep bonding experience, nor should it be.

The average guy who has zero training will not know how to create deep bonding experiences. Which is your typical guy who you ladies complain about. He has no idea how to do deep sex or how to please you.

Getting good with women requires training for most men. And training comes with lots of failure and trial and error.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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Women are so delusional about pick-up, i am yet to find one that admits that it totally works with them, at the same time, my field experience is that it totally does work on any woman. 

Good pickup is like good plastic surgery, INVISIBLE.

Women tend to think they know what pickup is and how to spot men that know it, they DON'T.

That's a fact.

When I approach you, you will think "who is this cool guy that appeared in front of me from thin air?".

And I am not even that good.

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2 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course not everything is a deep bonding experience,

And not everything is a casual bonding experience for a woman. 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

And not everything is a casual bonding experience for a woman. 

And no one says it is or should be.


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

And no one says it is or should be.

Then why this stupid expectation that women should understand pickup when in their view it's not a deep bonding experience. 

 


INTP loner....... Nothing else but to enjoy  the rest of my dream. Love it. 

Preety preety

 

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