Science Can't Be Imaginary!

[Batman]

5 minutes ago, Ivan Dimi said:

@Leo Gura Isn't Quantum physics at least going in the right direction? 

It is not about right or wrong direction. It is about becoming conscious of what Science really is. The true nature of science is knowledge, conceptual and hearsay.

Science is a discipline for formulating an accurate story regarding certain circumstances or experience within the human domain.

But it will never, never, never be the experience or the circumstance that the Science represents.

Humans place their trust or base their belief in science because they are holding its methods for gathering story or "facts" as valid or trustworthy, due to cultural indoctrination. But again, when you boil down any scientific "discovery", the only thing you find is hearsay. You did not directly experience that "discovery" or the "thing" that was measured by yourself. Simply put, you are absorbing the "conclusion" of the research without experiencing it for yourself. By this you only gather knowledge, which is purely conceptual and not actual within your personal experience. And usually you are not considering the possible biases of the scientist or the process of reaching the discovery. 

In it's essence, believing in scientist story is no different from believing in a pick-up artist story of how he got laid. The only difference is the method used to formulate the story.

It's not so hard to grasp. Just consume enough Psilocybin or LSD or 2C-B (or any other mind altering psychedelic that is not blasting you totally outside of the human experience) and you will experience directly the distinction between having a direct experience of the thing itself, and the story that represents the thing. Become conscious that the mind functions (among other) as a knowing device for manipulating reality (or "future" Now). You must become conscious of mind mechanics. It is a cornerstone in consciousness work and enlightenment. 

Stop wasting time. Assimilate within your experience the distinction between knowledge and direct experience. It will transform your life, 4eva. You will learn how to make the mind a loyal servant, rather than a violent master (or monster). 

Seriously, stop messing around. Do the work. Stop reading posts or watching more youtube videos. They are only there to point you to experience this for yourself. This is Leo's lifework. He is pushing you to experience this for yourself. Then you will grasp how much Leo loves you, that he is willing to share his experience, only for you to understand that you must experience it for yourself, rather than believe him the same way you believe science. Stop fooling around. If needed, pull yourself by your bootstraps. Stop conjuring, concluding and gathering knowledge. Start experiencing this ffs. Leo is literally pouring gold on the floor for you. Just pick it up and test it for yourself. When you realize this for yourself, you will also grasp how much Leo loves you that he is sharing this. Fuck. I'm in tears. Leo, I wish we could make love together, it will be beautiful. But I am too much straight-indoctrinated due to society and culture. I'm sorry. I still have more work to do, I know. Eventually, there will be a collective humans species orgy. At least in some derivative actualization of infinity. 

[kbone]

@Ivan Dimi

 

You might say QPh is a much subtler realization at the level of observable and semi-repeatable experimentation in that it brings into question the subject-object duality and even call into question whether or not there actually is an objective material universe. It brought in the paradox which also started to question the limitations of mind itself which was, up until that point, doing the observation. Sure enough, stuff got weird. It also just happens to mark when and where scientists started to sound less like model builders and more like mystics. They went all spooky on the mainstream, hehe.

It was a little like old-school priests versus "new age" spiritual leaders, when a distinction arose between those who just wanted to believe enough to feel good and keep the family and neighbors happy, and those who needed a taste of the real thing just to be able to stay in their own skin.

 

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Ivan Dimi said:

@Leo Gura Isn't Quantum physics at least going in the right direction? 

Has nothing to do with awakening.

[Happy Lizard]

@Leo Gura I think I have largely broke from the idea of religion and god, I’m conscious that it’s fiction, but I just can’t see how that also can be applied to science. I saw all your videos and I opened up to how bias science is and how it sees itself as the highest authority. I’ve also read Derrida’s book from your book list, and it clicks for me how based on his philosophy, whoever looks from the science world view is completely missing other point of views because of their ignorance, all of that makes sense. It’s just hard for me to see exactly where this imagination is precisely “at work” ! 
Are you saying that science doesn’t happen?  And it’s all just a coincidence that it works the way it works? I hope you can see where I’m having a hard time figuring this out. I’m really open to deconstruct it on my own I’m just not sure what you mean by “imagination” and “you are imagining that it works”.

[Leo Gura]

12 minutes ago, Happy Lizard said:

It’s just hard for me to see exactly where this imagination is precisely “at work” ! 

Atoms, Earth, forces, mass, matter, energy, space, time, the Big Bang, evolution, birth, death -- all purely imaginary. As real as unicorns.

Quote

Are you saying that science doesn’t happen?

It happens in the sense that people hold some ideas in their minds and use these ideas to manipulate reality. Similar to religion.

If you want to really get it, take a psychedelic.

[PeaceOut96]

Its not that science is absolutly false. It contains a lot of RELATIVE truths, and is for now one of humanities greatest framworks and methods for creating a lot of useful technologies and figuring the mechanics of how this universe work. The issue is it can't figure the big questions out, like "What is reality", "Why are we here" etc. It just can't answer these questions. And you know why? Because it is a limited perspective on reality! It is useful for some specific uses, but fundamentally it is limited. It is not absolute. And no perspective is. It is finite. The Truth is that it is not only is science that is imaginary. Religion is too. In fact all your life is imaginary. You are imaginary, can u grasp that? Maybe og maybe not, its to radical. Because it feels so real, your suffering, joy and experience and LIFE feels so real for you. But the Truth is, its all a dream. Whose dream may you ask? Well that you have to figure out for yourself. 

[Romer02]

Sometimes I feel like I'm doing this work incorrectly. I haven't had a reaction like the one OP had about science Leo could tell me my life is fake or how I'm dreaming and everything  but I haven't had a strong reaction to anything just little uncomfortable feelings when contemplating how I have no free will today. 

I noticed my thoughts come from nowhere pretty much that void like place. 

[kbone]

@Romer02

 

5 hours ago, Romer02 said:

Sometimes I feel like I'm doing this work incorrectly. I haven't had a reaction like the one OP had about science Leo could tell me my life is fake or how I'm dreaming and everything  but I haven't had a strong reaction to anything just little uncomfortable feelings when contemplating how I have no free will today. 

I noticed my thoughts come from nowhere pretty much that void like place. 

The concept of free will deserves its own thread, imo... maybe it already exists, dunno.

Thoughts invariably arise as Consciousness touches conditioned mind, also "made of" and IN Consciousness. You could think of "appearing existence" as a denser form of imagined being, as opposed to the BEING that is actual at the non-local core of it all. The illusion of self is such a mind thingy, and the phenomenon of memory makes it a persistent illusion at that.

[kbone]

@Tim Ho

 

Sure, science is "real" in an imaginary "reality", much like unicorns.

What messes with peeps' minds is the fact that what is considered "more real" is mostly a value or function proposition, which is why science typically gets at least little more of the upper hand when compared with unicorns.

 

Notice: No unicorns' feelings were hurt in the writing of this post, but some scientists might object to not being considered objective in the grand scheme of what is actually thingless.

[kbone]

7 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Has nothing to do with awakening.

True. More like an observable sign post along the pathless way.

[Ivan Dimi]

10 hours ago, kbone said:

@Ivan Dimi

 

You might say QPh is a much subtler realization at the level of observable and semi-repeatable experimentation in that it brings into question the subject-object duality and even call into question whether or not there actually is an objective material universe. It brought in the paradox which also started to question the limitations of mind itself which was, up until that point, doing the observation. Sure enough, stuff got weird. It also just happens to mark when and where scientists started to sound less like model builders and more like mystics. They went all spooky on the mainstream, hehe.

It was a little like old-school priests versus "new age" spiritual leaders, when a distinction arose between those who just wanted to believe enough to feel good and keep the family and neighbors happy, and those who needed a taste of the real thing just to be able to stay in their own skin.

 

beautifly explained ??

[Gesundheit]

I thought this was gonna be a critique of Leo's stances on science. Disappointing.

[Adamq8]

11 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

I thought this was gonna be a critique of Leo's stances on science. Disappointing.

LOL every post lately you are trying to somehow debunk Leo's message. 

I dont understand why, maybe you think of yourself as a true sceptic or something like that.

Now to the OP.

I think science is a good thing but there is alot of different kinds of science. 

Academics and there way of doing science is the only valid one according to them.

And every scientist who goes outside of it and produce different results then them is called a pseudo scientist.

Which shows how fucking delusional these people are.

Science is a mind made concept and they are using technology to verify there own way of looking at the world. 

They bring conclusions based on empirical evidence as to what they claim but still the conclusion they make is made out of thoughts and not really in there direct experience.

For example the science of epigenetics,  shows clearly that you have an tremendous amount of power to influence ur own disease and wellbeing.

But somehow this is not mainstream?

Why?

Alot of scientist is locked in a newtonian paradigm and are looking at the body and the universe as a lifeless machine. 

It is an extremely limited view of reality and is not in my direct experience either. 

It is full of life, and what is life if not conciousness?

I got a cat at home, and I can really tell from studying him closely that he uses his imagination to play with things. 

And he is concious of everything. 

Alot of scientist got a hubris claiming to be the smartest and most intelligent in the universe.

What a load of crap.

[kbone]

@Ivan Dimi

? Hope it helped jiggle a little clarity on the context.

[SgtPepper]

That's what shocks you?

It's not just that science is imaginary, your whole life is, and that includes science .

Science is a paradigm which is by definition a model and/or a thought. And thoughts are what? It's like wind blowing through my hands to me.

Edited December 2, 2020 by SgtPepper

[Mason Riggle]

If what's 'imaginary' is indistinguishable from what's 'real', then it doesn't matter which perspective I take. 

Science is real, because it's really imagined that it is.  If it's imagined that it's not real.. then it isn't. 

It's as real as the trees, which are also being imagined right now. 

 

[Mesopotamian]

On 12/1/2020 at 7:13 PM, Leo Gura said:

Now you understand exactly how religious people feel.

It's all fun and games until your realize that what you considered rock solid reality was just a fantasy of yours.

With videos like these, you blur all the lines, and you prepare for new ideas to flow freely. Man, just the notion that a tribal man 200,000 years ago was doing science, this gives me hope that Muslims of today whom I live among are also open for science.

Here's another concept, how do you view the flow of advanced technology to all around the world? people who are still stage orange, blue, are sold advance technology, and they don't have the necessary discipline to use it.

What happens if you sell Ferarries to people in the Sahara, take their camels and sell them the new cars?

[Conscious life]

On 12/2/2020 at 0:31 AM, Leo Gura said:

That's cause you haven't become conscious that it is.

You guys do not appreciate the depth of what I said about science. You still basically believe in science.

@Leo Gura what if you are Imagining this? isn't even to distinct science from consciousness is a mistake? science is another dimension of consciousness. can't imaginary also another science? 

[juvoci]

On 12/1/2020 at 11:13 AM, Leo Gura said:

Now you understand exactly how religious people feel.

It's all fun and games until your realize that what you considered rock solid reality was just a fantasy of yours.

True science is quite different than religion though.

[juvoci]

On 12/1/2020 at 4:31 PM, Leo Gura said:

That's cause you haven't become conscious that it is.

You guys do not appreciate the depth of what I said about science. You still basically believe in science.

Aren't we playing word games here?

"You haven't become conscious of what I am conscious of." This is ridiculous!

Everyone has different perspectives on reality. Science is just as imaginary as everything else, and if everything is imaginary then nothing is imaginary. This is just semantics.

Perhaps what we are really trying to say here is that "Science cannot solve all of our problems." But it certainly can solve some problems, no? Without science, we wouldn't be able to communicate on this platform.