Facebook Bans All QAnnon!

[Leo Gura]

There's MORE!

Facebook temporarily banning political ads after election results on Nov 3.

https://www.theverge.com/2020/10/7/21506798/facebook-ban-political-ads-after-us-presidential-election-trump-biden-results-notification

[Hardkill]

I have to say, Qanon is becoming increasingly frightening.  Everyone who is a member of Qanon, has completely lost perspective on all of reality. What's even worst is how much unbelievable traction this freakish cult has gained because of how incredibly compelling their conspiracy theories have become. I am really worried about what everyone who is a part of it might cause not just to the U.S., but to the whole world.

 

 

 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Hardkill

[No Self]

1 minute ago, datamonster said:

Completely misses the point... ?‍♂️

This is a sort of reductio ad absurdum argument. Here's another way of looking at it:

Should Facebook be held accountable if it is directly responsible for inciting political unrest and violence, or should it be required to do some sort of moderation?

It is a very similar argument to "Should fossil fuel companies pay for health care and ecological costs caused by their poisonous product, or should they just freely make trillions in profits and make governments pay to clean up the mess?"

[Opaltri]

2 minutes ago, No Self said:

This is a sort of reductio ad absurdum argument. Here's another way of looking at it:

Should Facebook be held accountable if it is directly responsible for inciting political unrest and violence, or should it be required to do some sort of moderation?

It is a very similar argument to "Should fossil fuel companies pay for health care and ecological costs caused by their poisonous product, or should they just freely make trillions in profits and make governments pay to clean up the mess?"

Maybe lets stop all media while we are at it. 

[Rilles]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Facebook is extremely influential. Just because you're not on it doesn't mean it isn't.

True, let me rephrase, I think the design has gone to shit, there are ads after every 2 posts.   Anyway, I've deactivated my FB account. No need to discuss this further.  

Edited October 8, 2020 by Rilles

[Dryas]

Kamala is absolutely insufferable. And everyone has started calling out Pence’s ‘misogyny’ just like how Hasan predicted.

Seems I posted this in the wrong thread lol.

Edited October 8, 2020 by Dryas

[Chives99]

I'm surprised trump hasn't endorsed the conspiracy group , he has no limit to how low he'll steep, maybe his advisors told him don't fucking do it 

[Lyubov]

28 minutes ago, datamonster said:

Of course, they should be held accountable. But that's not what's happening here. FB themselves decided that.

So, if that's what you want, let the Zuck off the leech. Let him alone decide what information people can consume, right? Why ask an elected government? I'm sure Mark knows what's best for everyone...

So are you for or against Q being removed from Facebook?

[Leo Gura]

17 minutes ago, datamonster said:

otherwise we risk making the Zuck our unelected digital dictator.

That is inherent to how capitalism works. Any large company gets to dictate the terms of the use of its products and services.

There are no Free Speech protections for private forums. You are not allowed to go on a kid's forum and start posting porn. This is not a violation of free speech.

[Preety_India]

It's a private company. 

 

[Rilles]

16 minutes ago, datamonster said:

Did you even read my previous comments? 

I'm against Qanaon as much as I am against granting corporations the power to control freedom of speech.

I'm not saying we shouldn't limit it. But I am saying this should be the government's job, otherwise we risk making the Zuck our unelected digital dictator.

You still have sites like B*tch*te, yuck, dont even want to mention that Mordor Black Speak here, freedom of speech is not being cancelled. 

Edited October 8, 2020 by Rilles

[Leo Gura]

48 minutes ago, datamonster said:

FB themselves decided that.

Obviously! If you own a restaurant and a racist walks in the door with a sign that say "I hate black people" -- it is your responsibility as the business owner to take action, or your customers will start to hate your business.

[DefinitelyNotARobot]

This is good if you want to keep these theories from spreading any further, however I feel like this might help those conspiracy theorists from getting new people onboard. A lot of right wingers (I think a lot of QAnon believers are pretty right wing) use being silenced as a vehicle for recruiting new members into their ideologies. That's how nazis often work. If you ban their views they will start seeing it as "being silenced by the system". They will say things like "They are trying to hide the truth! They are trying to silence us! The system is rigged!". Now a person who is able to think critically about these things won't be affected by it, but I have seen people get persuaded by these kinds of things.

I know it has little to do with the OP, but I think that this video is a good representation of how this works:

Note how Trump supporters being "silenced" was the thing that started off her decent into the right wing. It wouldn't have worked if she thought critically for herself, or if she didn't already agree with the core values of their political ideology. It was just the trigger that made her interested in Trump in the first place. After starting to get interested in these things a lot of her left-wing friends stopped associating with her (She said so in another video) which alienated her even further from the left-wing and pushed her further into the right.

Same might happen with conspiracy theories. Look at Alex Jones for example. How many people do you think got interested in Alex Jones just based on him being banned from all those platforms. Similarly: How many people will get suspicious/interested because of Facebook banning QAnon? I think that it might get a few new people onboard.

I feel like the problem of "conspiracy theories" is a systemic problem that need a systemic solution. Many of the problems fueling conspiracy theories are outside of Facebooks field of operation, but I feel like there are some ways that Facebook could help address that problem on a deeper level. Perhaps they could create/push/promote educational videos teaching people about conspiracy theories and the psychology behind them? (Similar to Leo's new video, but in a more mainstream way)

Now this might draw more attention to these theories, and it might not work on people who already believe in these theories or people who could potentially believe in them, it's just another perspective on how you can deal with this problem in a more elaborate way, but I think the point is clear.

I feel like banning conspiracy theories is just like bottling up emotions on a grand scale: You might not be aware of the problem anymore, but it will eventually find other ways of manifesting itself. And those other ways can be very nasty.

That being said, do you have ideas that could help dealing with this problem, other than just banning it? Maybe ban it but also address the problem instead of just sweeping it under the rug? I'd like to hear some ideas on that!

Edited October 8, 2020 by DefinitelyNotARobot

[Leo Gura]

22 minutes ago, datamonster said:

but when companies become larger than countries a different set of rules applies.

Except it basically doesn't. Which is the whole problem.

Quote

 With Mark as majority shareholder, almost all of that power is concentrated in a single person, which is very concerning to say the least.

Of course it's concerning. But it is a systemic outcome of capitalism. This problem cannot be fixed without fixing capitalism.

Quote

It's actually a public company.

You're playing with words. It is still private in the sense that it is not owned by the state.

Whether or not a company is traded on the stock market does not change the fact that it is owned by private people and not subject to any free speech protections.

Facebook could ban every Republican tomorrow if it decided to. And this would be perfectly fair under capitalism. Facebook could even become a neo-Nazi site overnight with pictures of Hitler on the front page, without any legal problem.

[Leo Gura]

@neutralempty Banned!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Just kidding.

[Rilles]

18 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Facebook could ban every Republican tomorrow if it decided to. And this would be perfectly fair under capitalism. Facebook could even become a neo-Nazi site overnight with pictures of Hitler on the front page, without any legal problem.

Libertarians vouch for what they hate the most. 

[Leo Gura]

14 minutes ago, datamonster said:

And if someone did that, the restaurant could actually call the cops and they'd kick the racist out.

It's funny, cause your case is a violation of free speech. Where does it end??? << your logic, not mine.

There is no law against saying racist things.

Quote

It is that FB is not only above the law, it is the law!

Of course. How else would a private forum work?

If you work in a company, your boss is the law. He gets to decide the rules of the workplace as long as it is not something illegal.

Quote

Then you really don't understand the difference between private and public companies and SOCs. Sorry Leo, economics doesn't seem to be your hobbyhorse.

Cringe, bro. Cringe.

[captainamerica]

55 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Of course it's concerning. But it is a systemic outcome of capitalism. This problem cannot be fixed without fixing capitalism.

@Leo Gura Will this be solved in our lifetimes? 

[Origins]

Imagine if there was capitalism on opinion, shit peoples bullshit wouldn't survive on Facebook or anywhere. Meritocracy is what we need on speech. People want freedom of speech but that's like freedom to just put your trash anywhere, has anyone seen what happened in Idiocracy? It's irrefutably analogous. All bullshit needs to be called out and filtered and properly recycled into gold in my imaginary world. It's tough work but its a good value to have, you're able to turn any kind of feedback into something useful that clearly adds to a more accurate lens of reality compared to what you had before. We don't have that kind of bandwidth in culture though so we need to call it out and kick it out.

 

 

[Rilles]

https://tenor.com/Qxgy.gif