My tolerance for Trump supporters is at an all-time low. Is this normal?

[DocWatts]

13 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I think what has to be understood about Trump supporters is that they are victims of his demagoguery. Trump is a charismatic leader in the exact same way that cult leaders are. He preys upon many people who are typically dealing with some feelings of powerlessness and the emotional issues it causes. And he gives people someone to blame for their pain and anger. Thus, he becomes associated with empowerment and release of pent up anger. 

This is why so many people identify so strongly with him and will bend themselves in pretzel knots to defend him at all costs. He becomes a symbol of validation for their most defensive reactions... and enable them to hide the wounds and vulnerabilities underneath that defensive reaction through projection, transference, and scapegoating of marginalized groups.

So, even though what you're seeing is very ugly and destructive, these super devout Trump supporters are truly unconscious. They know not what they do. And the only way to get through to them is to help them address the emotional vulnerability that has made them susceptible to the control tactics of a demagogue in the first place. 

Thanks for laying this out in such a clear, concise, and helpful way.

It's so much more constructive to try and understand these people rather than just demonizing them.

In order to diffuse these sort of ideologies, you really need a clear understanding of what makes them so attractive to people.

Edited September 25, 2020 by DocWatts

[Opo]

1 hour ago, purerogue said:

but people over there are way more accepting and ready to listen, for sure less concerned if their friends are one side or other, it is just political view. 

Lol wut? 

[purerogue]

15 minutes ago, Opo said:

Lol wut? 

You are very developed person, pinnacle of what is right.

Are my smirky remarks  good for your taste? 

[GroovyGuru]

@Husseinisdoingfine So let me be clear about something, I'm definitely not a hateful person. I was just being very emotional when I was typing out my post and was sort of letting it all out there without thinking too much. I realized after I posted it it wasn't completely reflective of how I feel.

However... I completely understand what you said about those kinds of people simply being less developed. I know that often times these people can't help it given their family environment, programming they've received over the years, education level etc... I get all of this, it makes complete sense. My problem is that I still have an issue in demonizing and criticizing and blaming these people.

I'm completely aware that I'm doing it, and I know it's not healthy or ideal, and I know I have to overcome it by becoming more spiritually mature. But yeah, that's my main problem. I get that in a sense it's not their fault, but I can't help think less of them.

[Jodistrict]

I don’t have any feelings about Trump or any other politician.   Things are happening just the way they are suppose too.  Nothing moves in a straight line.   There is a dialectic process happening in America with two conflicting forces battling each other, that will have some resolution.  Maybe it’s time for the  empire to end.   Similarly, the corona virus is a result of man’s abuse of the earth, and what is happening is a natural process.     

[Eph75]

How people react to thing does not make them who they are and it doesn't make people "bad" deserving being hated. The expression is only what makes sense from where they come from and how they see the world. It is problematic but with compassion and understanding some of the problems causing their reactions could perhaps be met in order to create a greater good acceptable for all. Meeting with hatred solves nothing, it only polarizes the masses and creates an ever growing problem centering around the fact that we cannot talk to each other. 

[GroovyGuru]

@purerogue

2 hours ago, purerogue said:

I was wondering why Left leaning people have problems to accept others point of views, I am not saying that you do not have such problem on other side , but people over there are way more accepting and ready to listen, for sure less concerned if their friends are one side or other, it is just political view. 

I personally do not even think that any of sides in moderate  level are regression, both are progression, just progression from different point. 

This is a good point, and I think you are correct about this. Even my conservative friends basically have no issue that I lean left even though clearly I can't say the same. I'm not sure about other folks on the left but I'll speak from my personal viewpoint. I feel as though I have certain values and things/ways of life that are very important to me. For example, things like health, wisdom, spirituality, honesty, integrity, maturity, open-mindedness, empathy, forgiveness etc... (I know it's hard to believe given my slightly hateful original post)

Often times, the conservatives I come across in my life are the complete antithesis of all the ideals I hold dearly. Many of my "friends" are incredibly selfish, neglect their health, are closed-minded, are dumb and ignorant, are rude and cold-hearted etc... These things just irritate me and turn me off big time. I don't want to necessarily say my values and viewpoints and way of looking at the world are "better" than theirs, but at this point in my life I have to be honest and true to what I truly feel, so in a way I do think I'm better. I know it sounds bad, and I have a lot of maturing to do and sort of start to just accept people for how they are and understand that there are reasons they think the way they do and so forth... but sometimes I just can't help myself from criticizing these people.

 

[purerogue]

1 minute ago, Eph75 said:

How people react to thing does not make them who they are and it doesn't make people "bad" deserving being hated. The expression is only what makes sense from where they come from and how they see the world. It is problematic but with compassion and understanding some of the problems causing their reactions could perhaps be met in order to create a greater good acceptable for all. Meeting with hatred solves nothing, it only polarizes the masses and creates an ever growing problem centering around the fact that we cannot talk to each other. 

I know lots of people who would be considered low stage of development. but are way more loving and better in many areas then so supposedly more progressive people, just because someone thinks differently about what is right, wrong, does not mean that he is on some hate crusade, you can be progressive and be way worse as a person. 

 

[GroovyGuru]

@purerogue

2 minutes ago, purerogue said:

I know lots of people who would be considered low stage of development. but are way more loving and better in many areas then so supposedly more progressive people, just because someone thinks differently about what is right, wrong, does not mean that he is on some hate crusade, you can be progressive and be way worse as a person. 

 

I think this is true. I have seen many progressives that seem very hateful and outwardly act in direct conflict with some of the things they claim to value. My original post is a clear example, lol.

I have not personally met people like the way you describe, but I'm sure they exist. My post was very much about the conservatives and Trump supporters I happen to know and meet in my own personal life. The suburb I live in Ohio is absolutely full of white, upper middle class folks. All Republicans and your sort of classic rich-white person-Trump supporter stereotype. These people are often very hateful, racist, closed-minded, selfish, and dumb. They simply care about paying as little taxes as possible and worshiping Tucker Carlson every night. When you are surrounded by these people, it starts to get to you.

[GroovyGuru]

@Husseinisdoingfine Hahahahahaha, I remember watching that. I have to say, I partly agree with her. But listen, I get that I need to start looking at this more holistically and start incorporating more of an open-heart and just an overall detachment to these relatively petty matters because watching Anna go off like that definitely seems immature. I will work on this.

[Eph75]

@purerogue Absolutely.

If ideology and dogma is at the core of the problems, it is easy to hold the ones that happen to have an ideological flavor that resonates and aligns better with later stage perspectives, say "greener" world views, higher - and reversly demonize the others, say "blue-orange" world views.

A greener world view can be adopted without being green. You'd just not be able reason around it, and it would be blind reguritation, an ideology. 

At some point camps need to meet closer to middle ground, to understand the lack of needs met of the lower group, in order to relax the tension of the polarization, purposfully, so that transformation can happen.

But that's introducing second tier, so we can only hope to look forward to the greener masses to progress into a green-yellow mix. It's going to take time, and it's going to get worse before such transformation happens, and it's probably not anytime soon.

 

 

[Enlightenment]

@GroovyGuru Funny pranks about Trump supporters Murica!

 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Enlightenment

[mandyjw]

5 hours ago, Loving Radiance said:

When you see a person for who they really are, is that the miracle itself?

Do you have a story of a miracle through seeing things as they are?

Yeah, the miracle is that they aren't, but... love. Yes but my stories are long and involved and every time I tell a story it creates a new story.  

[GroovyGuru]

@Enlightenment Lolll gotta love Cassady. Haven’t seen his videos in a while

[Yog]

@GroovyGuru  Its alright man, its sticky and dense stuff. I certainly get stuck in it too at times. We all do.  Especially when it comes to politics.

As I see it. Its a result of investing oneself too much in this "human" storytelling stuff. There is certainly a need to ....at times distance oneself, see this all of this from a.....zoomed out....alien perspective, a bit of editing , a bit of cache cleaning and de-fragment.

Truly, you do not fully know who you are, you come from the deep misery, so do the "others". The ways their minds work and at what direction, to what extent and in what way their consciousness can and needs grasp stuff is unknown, its a mystery.

Its helps with reducing judgement, adds humility and encourages exploration, it adds juice to every interaction and it makes judgement pointless, you'll certainly have good time in that space. What I have in mind atm is to suggest you try out the first exercise from John Kreiter's - Magnum Opus. See how it goes, it works quite well for me.

[nahtanoj]

Trump supporters are just lost souls, they think Trump is a savior when in reality he is the devil incarnate (ego without awareness). I just look at trump and his supporters as a way to learn more about my triggers and my shadow. The left is always mad at  them because they are dumber than the left but at the sametime the left did not contemplate and reflect on why they feel that way with Trump, and trump supporters. My suggestion is to use what triggers you and look at it, its a shadow. And yes they are dumber and crazy just judge them with consciousness.

 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, purerogue said:

I was wondering why Left leaning people have problems to accept others point of views, I am not saying that you do not have such problem on other side , but people over there are way more accepting and ready to listen

Banned for gaslighting.

[Moksha]

I see it as a practice for being conscious enough to look past the unconsciousness of others. If I understand that everyone is part of the same Source, and that egos are illusions, it's easier to get along with people that see the world differently than my own conditioned mind does.

Something I came across earlier today seems relevant:

“Having conquered their senses, they have climbed to the summit of human consciousness. To such people a clod of dirt, a stone, and gold are the same. They are equally disposed to family, enemies, and friends, to those who support them and those who are hostile, to the good and the evil alike. Because they are impartial, they rise to great heights.” (Bhagavad Ghita, 6:8)

Edited September 25, 2020 by Moksha

[Lyubov]

6 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

Point to me one vegan meditator psychonaut who holds conservative political positions.

eh, there are ayahuasca new agey trump supporters... they are few and far between but they are out there trust me. mostly lost in a land of q-anon conspiracies popping up in their facebook feed. 

Edited September 25, 2020 by Lyubov

[No Self]

The idea of meeting half-way is a bit airy-fairy when we consider unworkable positions on actual issues:

• Let's deny climate change and promote fossil fuels because it's fun to make the tree-huggers cry
• The wicked mainstream media attacks Trump, who is meanwhile saving children from sex slavery
• Black lives protesters should be put in their place via military might

...among many others. It is OK to hold to your values and not water them down to meet disinformation campaigns or angry mob antics 'half-way'.

It is also OK to leave people alone if they have been radicalised to the point where they can only ramble on about conspiracy theories non-stop. They are CD-ROMs with no ability to edit their content.

The problem becomes when we feel so strongly about the issues that we turn individuals with opposing viewpoints into icons symbolising everything cruel, mad, inhumane and horrifying about modern society. There used to be a saying, "Don't hate the player, hate his game", which might have some relevance here. Hate is an easy trap to fall into when all humanity of the opponent is lost, but at that point we have become unconscious ourselves.

The Trump supporters that I've known also have some very positive qualities. They tend to be extremely loyal, and because their simple world view does not accommodate the complexity of trying to care for the less fortunate beings on the planet (flora, fauna and poor people!), they are often quite content and friendly. They will also take care of each other like brothers/sisters, where the left angrily discards people (such as the 'Bernie or bust' crowd of 2016) over minimal differences, harming themselves in the process.

Perhaps the ideal personality would combine the best of both worlds, accepting what they cannot change, loving the entire process because 'you can't have high without low', yet decisively acting when it is possible to bring healing and compassion into a wounded space. And from the perspective of the Self, all of it is a kind of drama playing in front of consciousness, who does not actually participate.