loub

Peter Ralston on Psychedelics in more detail

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To me it's pretty clear that psychedelics can be helpful but they are not the way.

Name one highly crystalized being who says that their achievement is due to psychedelics, you can't, there is non.

It can be good to shatter your beliefs if you are very stuck in them but it doesn't do much in everyday life, and if you think you're going to trip all your problems away you're up for rude awakening.

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Psychedelics are amazing. In my experience they have been a perfect continuation of my 8+ years of practicing Vipassana meditation rigorously. I went deeper into consciousness in my first low dose magic mushroom trip than ever did meditating, including a very deep 30-day silent meditation retreat. However I did notice the overlap between serious meditation and psychedelics. Very very similar experiences. In fact hard to tell the difference at a very high level of meditation and a very low dose of magic mushrooms.

To me it is ridiculous to call psychedelics artificial. They are just so much more potent than meditation but work very very similarly. Most people will never ever meditate enough to get into - even low dose - psychedelic states of consciousness, because it takes years and years of diligence and sacrifice. I did it and it's just unimaginable the effort.

I notice that a lot of people have a very hard time to wrap their stubborn minds around radical experiences and possibillites. Which of couse is natural. Still, I think this is one of the biggest traps on this path - not to be open minded enough.

Psychedelics have change my life forever. My sober state is just radically different. I don't meditate regularly anymore, just sporadically. I keep working with psychedelics. Going deeper into Love, here and now. Harmonizing with everything.

To me meditation is more like training wheels. Psychedelics is like mounting a jet engine on your bike.

 


Everything IS LOVE, everything is music... :x

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Well, it's very simple 

Psychedelics won't help you become "permanently" enlightened but they are irreplaceable for amazing peak states that are valuable in and of themselves 


"A couple of glasses of red wine a night slows my brain down and lets me get into the 'vegetative' state suitable for TV viewing. Combined with SSRI it works well in letting me achieve a 'normal' life."   

                                                                                                                                        -- Random Redditor

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Posted (edited)

50 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

Well, it's very simple 

Psychedelics won't help you become "permanently" enlightened but they are irreplaceable for amazing peak states that are valuable in and of themselves 

LOL. Of course they help, more than anything. Several posts here way underappreciates psychedelics.

Edited by Marten

Everything IS LOVE, everything is music... :x

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51 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

Psychedelics won't help you become "permanently" enlightened

Yes they will, if you use them right.

Quote

"Those who say it cannot be done should not interrupt those doing it." — Chinese proverb

 


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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The question is: do you want a higher state of consciousness? Or do you want enlightenment?

P.S. They're not the same.

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24 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

The question is: do you want a higher state of consciousness? Or do you want enlightenment?

P.S. They're not the same.

Care to elaborate on the differences?

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Posted (edited)

I could care less getting involved in the nerd wars over whose guru is more awake and who has the better path to becoming boundless. All I know, from my own direct experience, is that these substances have helped grow me quite a bit and make me a more authentic and compassionate person and I've been told from several other people they have had the same experience so they obviously play their role and part of god's grand design for a reason. 

Edited by Lyubov

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28 minutes ago, The Blind Sage said:

Care to elaborate on the differences?

Enlightenment is the recognition of truth regardless of and throughout all states. A high state does not necessarily offer you that.

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@Leo Gura Thats really possible? I always thought psychedelics cant enlighten you permanently. How can one reach permanent enlightenment through psychedelics?

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@Gesundheit You sound confused. Higher states are what helps you recognize Truth and Love, because higher states are Truth and Love. That's why they are called "higher states". If one doesn't grock it then it is not a matter of disregarding higher states, but rather going into them more. With care. And then integrating them - being them - being Love, being Truth.


Everything IS LOVE, everything is music... :x

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Posted (edited)

18 hours ago, loub said:

In his recent newsletter Peter Ralston was asked about psychedelics.

Question (roughly):  how come you promote states like clarity, openness and presence as necessary prerequisites for fruitful contemplation yet dismiss psychedelics as useless when it comes to consciousness work stating they are just states and not direct consciousness. Can psychedelic states not also be used to enhance contemplation, not to do it for you but help do it for yourself?

I am interested in what this forum thinks about his answer. Keep in mind though that he is deeply awake and also did have his fair share of psychedelic experiences.

Ralston:

I disagree with your argument. I hear the logic, but the truth in this case is different from the logic. The first thing we should notice is that the drugs are not of your own making, they are chemically induced. Whereas creating a state of focus and presence is an activity you generate. This is significant.

There are many states you can generate that are not at all helpful to pursuing consciousness, even ones that seem like they are. You could have a state of anger or distraction, which probably don't help much. You could also have a state of feeling one with the universe, and that doesn't help either, but you could easily think it does. So, it is with psychedelic states. You might think they help or produce some beneficial state because you experience something awesome or unusual. But that doesn't help at all. Like I have said, you can become directly conscious while being angry or on drugs, but I'm also saying the anger or drugs have nothing to do with it. People fool themselves into thinking drugs can help. A mistaken notion. I lived in the late 60's in Berkeley, California in an era of a great deal of drug taking. It was probably the beginning of the whole psychedelic attempt to become more conscious. We even called them "consciousness raising drugs." I did more than my share for a while. So, I tell you from a personal experience of both drugs and consciousness, the drugs don't help.

That isn't their purpose, and I think those using them to attain enlightenment are mistaken or lazy, wanting something else to do it for them or help them. This is nonsense because "direct" means only YOU can do it, nothing else. As for states that help in contemplation, they do so simply because they support your intent and efforts to contemplate. Drugs don't. And you are the one generating the states. Drugs aren't generated by you. States helpful in contemplation aren't random they are simply what creates the activity of contemplation. Without focus and openness you really can't contemplate. They are simply part of that effort.

The contemplation itself is an activity, it is not enlightenment. It is simply more likely for you to become directly conscious if you intend to do so, and you give it your all. Drugs just provide a different experience by altering the chemicals in your brain. Neither chemicals or brain activity has anything to do with enlightenment. You can do them if you want, I am simply asserting there is a flaw in your logic—it doesn't work that way. You seem to be trying to convince yourself by getting me to go along with your beliefs. Sorry to disappoint, but I won't. Even if I had no counter logic to offer, I'd still say no. Simply because I know the truth directly. Peter

Although I am both an advocate and user of psychedelics I think Ralston is making some valid points that should be considered. Psychedelics are not a get quick enlightenment avenue and I feel his rhetoric reflects this. One must walk the path them self at some point and not export their reliance to transient states derivative of the consciousness they exist as. 

Humans are premature in their ability to really understand what a psychedelic state is, thus, must tread carefully assuming they know how to best utilise it. Although some of his points may be flawed, Ralston is speaking on behalf of conscientiousness, I feel that deserves listening to. He achieved enlightenment without psychedelics, why would he vouch for a supplementary method that many already abuse?

Edited by Jacobsrw

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6 minutes ago, Marten said:

@Gesundheit Higher states are what helps you recognize Truth and Love, because higher states are Truth and Love. That's why they are called "higher states".

If that is true, then lower states are not Truth or Love. Therefore, higher states by definition are limited and not the whole truth.

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@Gesundheit  Hehe... yes everything is Love and Truth, every state is. But at higher states it is much easier to recognize it, to grock it, to "reach enlightenment".


Everything IS LOVE, everything is music... :x

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Posted (edited)

1 minute ago, Marten said:

@Gesundheit  Hehe... yes everything is Love and Truth, every state is. But at higher states it is much easier to recognize it, to grock it, to "reach enlightenment".

To taste enlightenment, maybe. But unlikely to reach it.

Edited by Gesundheit

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Considering that Ralston still isn't conscious of what Love is, that doesn't speak so well for classic "enlightenment".

One would think he'd get it after 50 years of contemplating shit.

Contemplation without psychedelics is like sex with a bone dry vagina. You can do it, but I don't recommend it ;)


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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3 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Considering that Ralston still isn't conscious of what Love is, that doesn't speak so well for classic "enlightenment".

One would think he'd get it after 50 years of contemplating shit.

Contemplation without psychedelics is like sex with a bone dry vagina.

Well now it's like chimps throwing shit at each other. Who's more enlightened? I am. No, I am. No, Ralston. No, Martin. No, Leo.

You ought to find a solution for this issue. Otherwise we'll stay disagree forever.

You claim that Love is a more comprehensive realization than Truth. And Ralston claims that Truth is a more comprehensive realization than Love. Of course you'll say you're the one with the correct understanding. But what if you're wrong? What if Ralston understands your perspective and transcends it?

You really ought to solve this.

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Posted (edited)

@Leo Gura God is all about wet sex, lol. :x :D

@Gesundheit To me it is very clear. Spirituality has become so much better working with psychedelics, as I stated above, it is just so much more potent. Actually you'd be surprised how accurate Leo's similie is... it's like really amazing juicy sex after having had no idea about foreplay... it is ALL LOVE, so juicy and sweet... man... it blows my mind every time... xD

Edited by Marten

Everything IS LOVE, everything is music... :x

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27 minutes ago, Gesundheit said:

Who's more enlightened? I am. No, I am. No, Ralston. No, Martin. No, Leo.

It's not a matter of who's more enlightened.

Consciousness has many facets and degrees. There is really no such thing as "enlightenment" as a singular thing. There are thousands of various kinds of awakened states.

Quote

You claim that Love is a more comprehensive realization than Truth.

No, I claim that Truth = Love, and that Love is Absolute.

Quote

And Ralston claims that Truth is a more comprehensive realization than Love.

No, Ralston claims that love is just an emotion/feeling. Which is false. I mean... it IS that, but it's also an Absolute. He doesn't understand that Truth = Love. Or if he does, he denies it publicly. I suspect he actually knows but he's just playing coy.

Quote

You really ought to solve this.

I have already solved it. I know that I AM LOVE.

Do you?


You are God. You are Love. You are Infinity. You are Leo.

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