Peter Ralston on Psychedelics in more detail

[Leo Gura]

Lol, oh Ralston...

You been smoking the wrong stuff, buddy

He could not be more wrong.

Keep in mind that Ralston is not wired like most humans. So perhaps it is true that psychedelics don't work on him. But that is not true for us.

When you are the entire Universe, everything is generated by you. So that is a spurious distinction he's making.

And anyways, his claims simply contradict all the science, all the trip reports, and direct experience.

You can easily disprove his claims by popping some LSD.

How is it possible that MDMA is the most effective treatment for PTSD and will soon be approved by the FDA???

[Adamq8]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol, oh Ralston...

You been smoking the wrong stuff, buddy

He could not be more wrong.

Keep in mind that Ralston is not wired like most humans. So perhaps it is true that psychedelics don't work on him. But that is not true for us.

When you are the entire Universe, everything is generated by you. So that is a spurious disction he's making.

+1

[Forestluv]

6 hours ago, loub said:

There are many states you can generate that are not at all helpful to pursuing. . . 

This is the key. Peter has created a destination of value to pursue. Within his creation, he is correct. Yet notice the limitation: within the destination Peter has created and within his experiential memories he is correct. 

[Danioover9000]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

@loub i agree with him - but at the same time i remain open minded about the topic.   Leo is one enlightened mofo - so i respect that.

My enlighenment came at 48 years of age after decades of suffering.  (There were good times too don't get me wrong - but i suffered greatly from selfishness)  through that - through living - i didn't realize it but i was ever so slowly gaining in consciousness.

And so then when meditating - while this was all just a curiosity - it happened.   

But that said we could also be the few spiritually gifted individuals.  For others perhaps the theoretical foundation followed by psychedelics could potentially really have a profound affect.  For someone who is awake he is closing his mind.   A mind should never fully close.

My intuition on the topic tells me that 5-Meo will straight up show you God but whether you are in a place in your life where you will actually become God or become directly conscious of God is another matter.  In other words it could be right in front of your face but if you are not ready to see it you will not see it.   That is what he means by you generate it.  

 

 

51 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

 Terrence McKenna  died of brain cancer in 2000 and stopped or dramatically reduced taking psychedelics in 1988 according to his sister or early 90s according to his brother

name some prominent spiritual teachers other than Leo and Ball who you own books of, who advocate taking psychedelics as a primary tool for enlightenment. 
 

   These.

[Forestluv]

57 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

name some prominent spiritual teachers other than Leo and Ball who you own books of, who advocate taking psychedelics as a primary tool for enlightenment. 

Notice that you are creating your own standard of evidence to prove a construct you have created. I’ve met many people I consider to be at an extremely high level of conscious that have used psychedelics - yet they wouldn’t qualify under your criteria of “prominent” an author of books or “enlightened”. You are greatly limiting yourself. As well, it matters little of how one judge others. The direct experience is of higher value than any type of constructs others create. The way to find out if psychedelics can be used for a tool toward your imagination of “enlightenment” is to actually get the experience. Take 50 trips and see for yourself. That direct experience knowing comes prior to the explanations of others. And what you consider to be “enlightenment” may radically change. 

[Leo Gura]

7 hours ago, loub said:

There are many states you can generate that are not at all helpful to pursuing consciousness

That's true. But that does not apply to psychedelics at all.

The reason they were called "consciousness raising drugs" is because that's exactly what they are.

[Nak Khid]

47 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Notice that you are creating your own standard of evidence to prove a construct you have created. I’ve met many people I consider to be at an extremely high level of conscious that have used psychedelics - yet they wouldn’t qualify under your criteria of “prominent” an author of books or “enlightened”. You are greatly limiting yourself. As well, it matters little of how one judge others. The direct experience is of higher value than any type of constructs others create. The way to find out if psychedelics can be used for a tool toward your imagination of “enlightenment” is to actually get the experience. Take 50 trips and see for yourself. That direct experience knowing comes prior to the explanations of others. And what you consider to be “enlightenment” may radically change. 

Psychedelics are a materialistic method of altering mental states by using chemical compounds.
but some liken this state , similar to a shamanic trance state to "enlightenment"  
a concept associated with monastic traditions.   

I would like to know who is the first known familiar person who suggested that psychedelics states were the same thing as 
 mediation derived enlightenment as described in Eastern traditions 

 

 

Edited August 3, 2020 by Nak Khid

[James123]

Psychedelics are kind of trailer of the movie. But enlightenment usually  never comes through psychedelics. Because Complete surrendering or no thoughts  must be happened without psychedelics. With psychedelics you experience stuff even while you still think. 

[Nak Khid]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Psychedelics are kind of trailer of the movie. But enlightenment usually  never comes through psychedelics. Because Complete surrendering or no thoughts  must be happened without psychedelics. With psychedelics you experience stuff even while you still think. 

what meditation method/s   do you use? 

[James123]

15 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

what meditation method/s   do you use? 

Darkness and silence. It is so close to what you are. 

[Forestluv]

1 hour ago, Nak Khid said:

Psychedelics are a materialistic method of altering mental states by using chemical compounds.

You say that as if it’s true. Maybe you are missing something.  Why not find out for yourself through direct experimentation? 

[Nak Khid]

1 minute ago, Forestluv said:

You say that as if it’s true. Maybe you are missing something (you are).  Why not find out for yourself through direct experimentation? 

I've done it.   That does not change the fact it is a chemical 

[Forestluv]

6 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

I've done it.  

A few trips are generally insufficient for a hyper intellectual materialist mind. The mind can be amazingly resilient. I was fortunate in that I took a very high dose my first trip and it shattered my intellectual materialist paradigm. I was never able to fully return to it. Yet I am a rare case. Most minds can get fully re-grounded and 50+ trips are often needed.

You are correct within your belief network. I am not challenging that. I am saying it is limited and you are missing something. Yet then again, maybe I’m just some woo woo keyboard fairy. . . 

[Nak Khid]

1 hour ago, James123 said:

Darkness and silence. It is so close to what you are. 

what are the details, what position is your body in, how long, how regularly? 

[Forestluv]

@Nak Khid Perhaps you are right and have seen it all, perhaps you are missing something. 

[James123]

26 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

what are the details, what position is your body in, how long, how regularly? 

Normal meditation sitting, but hands are together. Everyday. Each session 1 hour. If you can do, go up to 3 session with 10 min break. Additionally, even during the day be aware of the thoughts, dont be in it and dont go with it. Watch it. 

[Forestluv]

32 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

right about what?

Your beliefs of what’s true.

Perhaps psychedelics are simply “a materialistic method of altering mental states by using chemical compounds.”. Maybe there is more that you are missing. 

[Nak Khid]

1 minute ago, James123 said:

Normal meditation sitting, but hands are together. Everyday. Each session 1 hour. If you can do, go up to 3 session with 10 min break. Additionally, even during the day be aware of the thoughts, dont be in it and dont go with it. Watch it. 

So you have been doing 1 hour a day for how long? 
 You are describing Shikantaza meditation
there is also Samatha and Vipassana,   all of these three,  are Buddhist methods 

[Nak Khid]

9 minutes ago, Forestluv said:

Your beliefs of what’s true.

Perhaps psychedelics are simply “a materialistic method of altering mental states by using chemical compounds.”. Maybe there is more that you are missing. 

a chemical is measured and introduced into the blood stream artificially

this then changes the mental state. 

this isn't describing the mental state just the cause of it. 

some might say It's similar to a dream state

[James123]

7 minutes ago, Nak Khid said:

Shikantaza

Yes this is it. In 2018  i did 2 hours every day, 2019 3 hours, and this year 4 hours ever day. And after awakening mind (because actually there is no mind) becomes meditative.